Discussion Is killing really that hard?

Discussion in 'Novel Discussion' started by 911, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. 911

    911 [Officer][Official Police][Tag me when needed]

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    446
    Likes Received:
    9,002
    Reading List:
    Link
    Slavery has been abolished by Islam
    And Muslim is believed in Islam faith
    But yea. The fall of Islam golden age cuz the political interests shifted from the majority to the minority of the power makers. Not a big surprise
     
    Deleted member 155674 likes this.
  2. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages:
    6,414
    Likes Received:
    2,171
    Reading List:
    Link
    Well the point was to say that everyone was pretty brutal at that point in time and saying that the Catholics were the worst is ridiculous. As is blaming Muslim behavior on something that Catholics did 1000 years ago like Muslims have no agency.
     
    Westeller likes this.
  3. munchiedi

    munchiedi Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    7
    Reading List:
    Link
    I personally think killing is not hard, cleaning is. Sometimes when I hate a person too much, like too much, there is a zone where I can imagine how to kill that person and get away with it.

    Like that one idea with sleeping gas (to let anyone in the vicinity also sleep), then kidnap said mob-kun A and break his arms and legs (or just tie the arms and legs if chopping arms and legs is too time-consuming) then bury him alive (if I hate that guy too much) or throw him in the ocean (if easier). Or with mob-chan B where I would inject *beep* while she is asleep in the Sleeping Quarters at work and let chemicals work their thing.

    What stops me from the line of imagining and killing a person is I don't have the freaking resources, strong motivation and I am too lazy to do it (procastination, yay?) even if mob-chan B's is a little easier. Buying injection and poison to kill. It is the idea of procuring said poison that makes me too lazy. = - =

    imo, I think killing is either a matter of motivation. If you are mediocre person with average income and killed a person because you are threatened by bad guys and you are stuck in a do or die scenario then you can say self-defense. But if it's flipped and you are this mediocre man who has enough resources (+ motivation) to kill because of the adrenaline rush or something else but do it because they can then that is homicide (or something with -cide in it). But if you are that mediocre man and joined the army then congrats, you have a license to kill someone and get a shiny medal for it. If you are just a mediocre man working as a henchman for a crazy rich dude who just orders people to kill then congrats, you found your dream job except there is no shiny medal. :sushi_cool::blobhero:
     
    Lurking likes this.
  4. Deleted member 155674

    Deleted member 155674 Guest

    Reading List:
    Link
    Killing is wrong no matter how one tries to think about it, what is wrong is just wrong, I mean sure that stuff sounds and looks awesome in movies and other kinds of works like novels but reality wise it is wrong, tho I am impressed that many are alright with it :blobsweat_2:
    I read your comments mate and because religious related conversations aren't allowed by forum rules let me keep this short, your arguments are clearly emotionally driven and influenced by media and hate speeches, and excuse me for saying this but it is clear you got no idea what you are talking about :blobsweat_2:, I recommend you forget all the stuff you heard, go read a bit about muslims or watch some videos on youtube as there are many debates and such... then rethink your arguments, then say what you want after that (you can't prove your point with wrong info mate :blobsweat:)
     
    Lurking likes this.
  5. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages:
    6,414
    Likes Received:
    2,171
    Reading List:
    Link
    Oh, and what specifically have I said that was wrong information? Especially when the core of my argument was that Catholics aren't worse than Muslims and everyone was bad in the dark ages. I never claimed Muslims were bad. I said they're not better than others. What part of that argument needs to be rethought? It sounds like you didn't actually read anything I said and are just spewing sanctimonious nonsense assuming I said something incorrect and bigoted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
    Deleted member 155674 likes this.
  6. Kadmos1

    Kadmos1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    1,538
    Reading List:
    Link
    If the victim is the following, the killing might be justified: SJW and nagging Flat-Earth mother-in-law who lived in a van down by the river with Seymour, a silent film-watching and Chris Walken-sounding vegan cannibal zombie moose.
     
  7. Lurking

    Lurking Do the dead suffer, or is it a sweet release?

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    12,370
    Reading List:
    Link
    Hmm? I skimmed but when trying to make a point about muslims... you brought up the Arab slave trade. Not all Arabs are muslim and not all muslims are arab yo.

    I am a non muslim arab, as an example. And what I know about muslims is that they have a commandment of some such where slavery is not against their religion... but if they were to be slave owners the slave would be treated as a family member.
     
  8. Ahodesuga

    Ahodesuga °˖✧Aho desu ga, Nani ka?✧˖° 《Liking Fiend》

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2018
    Messages:
    822
    Likes Received:
    8,361
    Reading List:
    Link
    Huh.... Interesting... *watches thread*
     
    Lurking likes this.
  9. SpearOfLies

    SpearOfLies [Lucky Dad][Has a lovely daughter]

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,080
    Likes Received:
    12,425
    Reading List:
    Link
    Humans have mental psychology that blocks them from killing someone. I love Shinsekai Yori for how it treats the argument. It's not about just guilty. It's something in our core that reject killing our similar. You really need a strong reason that can convince yourself that it's right to kill someone in front of you with your hand. Or you are currently mentally unstable(I don't mean psyco but more toward there is a lot of things happening around you and your judgment start to fall apart)

    After you break that wall... things are worse. It's much easier to do it again. You need less reasoning to kill someone. You can even stop caring about what it's right and what it's wrong. You became apathetic toward your similar. Which is another aspect of our mind that tries to protect ourself.

    It's a very hard subject to tackle. Most of the novels that we read hardly take the psychologic aspect of it. We mostly do the suspension of disbelief and don't worry too much about it. So we are quite ignorant about this kind of argument. Especially considering we never kill someone(and we shouldn't).
     
    Lurking likes this.
  10. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages:
    6,414
    Likes Received:
    2,171
    Reading List:
    Link
    Obviously there are Arabs that are not Muslims but a lot of them were at the time. The point was that the person I was talking to brought up the golden age of Muslims as if to imply they were fine people during that time and I pointed out that some Muslims had a huge slave trade going during that same time period so by our modern sensibilities they would be considered bad too. Now I won't try to get into the specifics of how Muslims are supposed to treat slaves but I doubt it was pleasant from the slave's perspective regardless of how well they're suppose to be treated.
     
  11. Lurking

    Lurking Do the dead suffer, or is it a sweet release?

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    12,370
    Reading List:
    Link
    Well, that is absolutely not how you phrased it vincent boyo.

    Please dont forget, christians did slavery too. They even wrote it in their bible that slavery is intended by god and that black people were intended by god to be their slaves. I dont remember which edited bible it was, but at least muslims didnt have it written in their holy book that other humans were intended to be the slaves of muslims.

    Now that im tired of poking holes im your argument, lets stop talking about religion. Its against forum rules yanno.

    Like @Kalto said, do your own research, dont listen to hearsay. Lots of it is islamophobia or propaganda made by church websites to vilify their religious competition. Ive found at least three of these christian websites while doimg my own research.
     
    Deleted member 155674 likes this.
  12. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    8,169
    Likes Received:
    24,949
    Reading List:
    Link
    I'm not willing to read three pages of replies here, so forgive me for that. I'm just dropping by to share a cool imgur post:

    https://imgur.com/gallery/jgogp
     
  13. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages:
    6,414
    Likes Received:
    2,171
    Reading List:
    Link
    Actually that's pretty much exactly how I phrased it. He said look at the golden age. I said look up the slave trade if you think they were great people during that time. I literally just told you the context which you would have seen by reading the post I was quoting and then reading my post. Once again no one actually pointed out a single incorrect thing about what I said so how are you poking holes in my argument? Either point out hearsay I'm using or don't bring it up. Saying that Christians also had slaves doesn't counter my point of everyone being bad at the time period. Unless you're saying Christian slave trade was worse makes Christians worse which would actually be a point. Well as far as black people suppose to be slaves I think that's from the curse of Ham. Ham's descendants were cursed to slavery. I believe they assumed that Ham was black because they were already enslaving black people. Not sure that really counts but whatever. At any rate if you don't want to discuss religion then don't do it. Don't do it and then try to walk off with the last word.
     
  14. Lurking

    Lurking Do the dead suffer, or is it a sweet release?

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    12,370
    Reading List:
    Link
    I also told you I skimmed. Your posts didnt read that way to me.

    I am not sure what this golden age of muslims is, from what i remember off the top of my head it had something to do with astronomy and math, what I gleaned from your posts was you claiming christians were better than muslims and that muslims were some terrible worse than everything whatever.

    I dont pay too much attention to reading materials that stink of islamophobia to be brutally honest. It just gives me a headache
     
  15. Vincent1873

    Vincent1873 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages:
    6,414
    Likes Received:
    2,171
    Reading List:
    Link
    Well, if you're not paying attention then you should think twice before attempting to lecture people as I stated my points multiple times.
     
  16. Lurking

    Lurking Do the dead suffer, or is it a sweet release?

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    12,370
    Reading List:
    Link
    Uh huh. Sure, whatever.


    Back to the point of this thread, I can think of a few people I would willingly kill if there was a guarantee i wouldnt get caught nor suffer consequences.
     
  17. kkgoh

    kkgoh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2017
    Messages:
    908
    Likes Received:
    1,444
    Reading List:
    Link
    To answer the thread topic "Is killing really that hard".
    No. As other people commented, it happened throughout human history, where ages past were much more violent, visceral and gory. Combat was up close with swords/maces/etc, arrows didn't fly that far and did not do the bulk of the job. Humans were desensitized to violence, although PTSD was still properly recorded (i.e. it's NOT a recent phenomenon).

    The invention of guns and other ranged weaponry (cannons, artillery, drones) furthered the kill zone distance. There were less frequent large-scale conflicts. Some drone pilots do still experience visual trauma since they witness events "live" .. kinda like Facebook 3rd party moderators. But arguably the trauma is to a lesser extent than in earlier warfare. As a result, in recent history humanity got more sensitized.
    Not trying to trivialize what modern soldiers go through, since what's hard for them is still hard regardless. Just taking a more objective view from the perspective of history.

    So "hardness/difficulty of killing" is environmentally / socially influenced. i.e. it can be conditioned.
    It's easy to forget that people used to be hung/pierced on a cross. That method of torture/execution wasn't unique and people accepted it.

    No absolute right or wrong to killing either, there'll always be a reason/excuse to rationalize or justify it. Trying to nitpick and draw a line of justification is for society/legal systems to determine. What's manslaughter in one country is 1st degree murder in another. It's only been a few years that some countries accepted euthanasia. So the line clearly keeps moving.

    Just FYI that in most military, soldiers start with slaughtering small animals (birds, fowl, etc) to get used to it. Usually with twisting off the neck/head. Been there, done that. And yes chickens can run around with their heads cut off.

    As other posters have said, this comment is just troll/click bait.
    Already proven in various scientific studies that videogames have no correlation to violence. It just came about from poor anecdotal evidence from NRA. Other countries have equivalent or more exposure to ultraviolent games. Easy accessibility to firearms is the real problem.


    Humans are not unique. Plenty of animals kill for sport. Your pet cat is the best example.

    Think someone also commented about the "sanctity" and value of human life.
    That question has long been answered and easily checked. Life is pretty cheap.
    It's not even a philosophical argument.
    Your organs/kidneys/etc are only worth a few hundred to a few thousand, and that depends on the country you're in.
    Signing up for patient clinical trials is worth almost nothing (couple of hundred) despite the possible adverse health effects.
    Insurance payouts for loss of life/limb/etc are also easy references to calculate the value of human life. And it's not much, maybe a few thousand to tens of thousands on the low end at best, and that's more because you already paid premiums on it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
    Effugium, Harry and Lurking like this.