Is this a policy abuse?

Reply cause I'm err... procrastinating from writing my thesis but I don't get your line of logic here. I may be misunderstanding something but translating 50 chapters is to deter new translators from poaching a novel from an existing translator. I don't see anything wrong with asking them to prove a certain level of commitment before allowing them to do so. If the new fan translator is so slow that he or she can't match the current release rate of the translator that is not behind a paywall (which you say is once a month), why are they even picking up the novel in the first place? If the new translator's release rate is faster than the released chapters but not as fast as the paywalled chapters, readers unwilling to pay will still get to enjoy a faster release rate than they originally would have. The original translator might feel pressured to release more chapters from behind the paywall to compete with the new translator, which is another win for the readers.

If new translators are so confident of churning out the 50 chapters, they can just do it to show their commitment. I don't see why we should remove the policy even if the current translator has some chapters behind a paywall.
And honestly, the previous replies are right, you need to let us know more details behind the translator you're having trouble with before we can judge properly. If it's only a few chapters behind a paywall, readers can choose to wait. If there's really so many chapters locked that it's outrageous, just list them and subject them to scrutiny. We'll be able to have a more meaningful discussion then.

 

I did not result to personal insults.
I pointed out a few things

1. It is crazy to think translators are as plentiful as sand
2. Not wanting translators to earn is pathetic.

I believe that's
I am just calling a spade a spade.
I did not call you a fool because you are a fool.
I will reiterate, your intentions are not noble. Regardless of what you want to believe and that is what pisses me off the most.
I have one question for you.

What have you given back to this community?
How have you contributed positively to this community? It is naive to think that you can just receive and receive without giving back and expect it to go on like that forever.
Unlike the slaves "volunteers" that you and your group prefer. Those who earn, are incentivized to translate instead of taking a break because they have to take up a job to earn money.
I would know because I am in the business of creating websites for multiple translators so that they earn and pay their bills.
I don't know how old you are but this is a good time as any to learn OPPORTUNITY COST.
Nothing in life is free. These people who translate for you are sacrificing other opportunities, usually.
If you cannot see that, if you cannot understand that. Then God help you.

You have eyes but cannot see Mount Tai

What about this:

A translator who releases 8 chapters per month but all are sponsored chapters. The translator can release zero in a month if there are no donations.
Basically, translation on demand.

I wonder if this group calling foul have any issue with such a translator?
If they don't, then they are hypocrites.
It is the same selling of chapters. It's slight different but it is even more obvious.
Should NU stop listing sponsored chapters then , if those who are peeved complain?

It will never end if you pander to whims that are ridiculous

Advertisement : 7 more chapters of Itai no Wa( I Hate Pain) will be released today along with Duke's Daughter. Possessing Nothing will also be translated by a new translator

 

You want to respect authors. Well don't read unlicensed translations.
Read only from licensed sources and pay for them like J-novel club.
You are simply someone who wants to consume bootlegged DVDs for free but you are angry that it is being sold.
You are pretty darn good at deflecting too

 

I don't get where is the problem and where is the abuse.

The only thing I understand is "I don't like Paywall".

 

I'm back because thesis is b o r i n g and you may have a genuine concern so let me try to very sincerely breakdown what's going on.

First of all, I also think that profiting off an author's work without their consent is quite unethical. However, it is a fact that some translators are only motivated by money and wouldn't give a crap about translating if it wasn't involved. Even though their intentions aren't "pure", you do get to read novels because of translators like this, especially since they have to maintain the minimum release rate of 2 chapters per month.

I think you recognize this yourself. I am assuming so correct me if I'm wrong but you're unwilling to list the translator because you don't want to blow things up to the stage where they either

a) gets pissed at readers having a problem with how they're earning from their translations or
b) is deemed by NU to be in such a severe breach of rules (e.g. they have too many chapters locked to the point that it's ridiculous) that they get banned from being listed or something.​

In either case, the translator gets so mad/discouraged that they decided to give up translating this novel completely. You don't want this to happen as you'll end up with nothing to read at all. This brings me to my next point. If you are really that against translators who are doing this purely for profit, it's actually better for you if this translator gives up on this novel. One month later, a new translator (with less shady intentions) can easily pick up this series without going through the rules.

Next, what do you mean by professionally? Join official translation sites like Qidian? They paywall their stuff too, but they have the official rights to do so. However, you need to consider that perhaps that novel you're reading doesn't have an official English publishing platform or that said platform may not be interested in translating this novel or accepting this translator. In this case, this novel won't ever be released in English. Or let's suppose that this novel does get translated officially. If you want to maintain your stance while reading this novel, please make sure that you are paying for it at the official site and not reading it at aggregator sites where you can get the translation for free but aggregators are illegally profiting off you from ads.

Lastly, Wugigege is not the best at framing his arguments but he does have a valid point. Where would you draw the line at translators who are earning? You claim to be primarily concerned with how translators are profiting from their translations but you said to modify the rules only specifically for series that are paywalled. What about authors who do sponsored chapters and then release those sponsored chapters for everyone to read? They are profiting from their translations but not locking it behind a paywall. Would you say that the exemption doesn't apply to them as well? Why? They are also profiting without the author's consent. You can't say that you're against translators who are in it for the profit without also taking a firm stance against these people.

It may feel like you're being personally attacked but it's because of all these points that people think you're only being mad at the paywall.

(Someone please give me a medal I've been more productive constructing the arguments on this thread than constructing the arguments in my thesis.)

 

I do understand what sarcasm is but you seem don't understand what a mature dialogue is if you have this kind of attitude but you hope for one. If people need to do guesswork to understand what is your arguments, this is seem the opposite of wanting a mature dialogue.

To make this post a bit more constructive:
- If the chapters of the novels are short like most of CN I saw(or probably Wn kind of stuff), 50 chapters isn't an insane amount. 2 month is enough to reach that goal. 2 month is a reasonable time to believe that you are a trustworthy translator.
-If the chapters of the novels are longs (more toward a ln format), 2 chapters every month is still a reasonable amount.

 

2 words.

Why not?

Why should NU take sides and make a bunch of exceptions that would just pile more work in the mods' heads instead of just having the same policy applied to everyone? It's better for the translators, it's better for the mods, it's better for NU.


Let's try looking at it in another perspective, what does NU gain from making specific exceptions to the rules in case the translator is trying to profit from the novel? I honestly see 0 gains.

Now in yet another perspective, what do the translators gain from this rule change? Well... If someone wishes to pick up a novel, is not dedicated enough to release 50 chapters, does not respect the other translator enough to ask for permission and wishes to pick up the exact same novel some other translator is already working on instead of a new one... Then I suppose this rule change will help them poach the novel more easily?

All I see in this rule change are demerits, please try bringing any merit to your suggestion up.

... Oh, and of course, don't bring the readers into the discussion, NU's rules never cared for the readers.

 

Or someone can translate 50 chapters and take it anyways? It's not that hard, even I can do it in one month if I try. And my Japanese is pretty bad.

You're right about NU taking a side though, it takes the side of the translators that dedicated their time to translating a novel when there was nobody else working in it... I feel like that's a good side to take though, much better than taking the side of the person that wants to poach the novel for sure~

So.. Let me see if I get your argument right.

Translators have nothing to lose... Except the ones that do that is, but as you personally don't care about them, their opinion obviously don't matter.

And they gain... Nothing. At most the recognition from a very very small part of the readerbase that they are "true" fantranslators, so they have the right to poach the novel from another.

Did I get it right? I think I got it right.

PS: Regarding the poaching/competition thing. That's honest BS, you can very easily compete for the same market of readers without translating the specific novel that another translator is already working on... Unless the novel just happens to be super popular and not licensed for some reason, in this case one person that wishes to profit from it might want to poach it from someone else (that may or may not want to profit from it btw~)... Then in this case the poacher is in it for the profit and the poached might also be, but might not... And well, if the poacher just wants to earn some easy buck out of the popularity other translators earned, might as well make them need to work hard for it, right~?

 

My statement was your arguments lacks any substance. If you see it as provocation, you probably had something you are trying to hidden and don't want to tell.

Why are you bringing business competition? Wasn't this thread about policy abuse?

Also your attitude is not of someone who want mature dialogue.

Your response to Alice is incorrect. Either you didn't read well the policy or you are just messing around. If you are not releasing 2 chapters every month, everyone can take it. If you are not satisfied with 2 chapters, isn't about paywall anymore.

More I read your response and more I think this is a thread trying to targeting QI without actually targetting QI.

 

You got the answer in the first page. No, it's not policy abuse, and the general consensus between the mods from what I know is that they prefer having one translator releasing 2 chapters every month for a novel is much better than no translator releasing any chapter for said novel~

Yeah... You need a lesson in history, let me tell you a story from long long ago... Okay, not too long ago, late 2015 actually.

Once upon a time, a certain site named mangaupdates listed the updates of translated novels, everyone lived in happy harmony... But then, everything changed when the drama nation attacked.

With the powers of whining and drama, the moderators of MU decided... They will no longer list updates of novels, only of mangas.

Tony-chan was outraged! How would she get to know when Coiling Dragon updated if mangaupdates didn't list it!? The world was ending! So she waited... She patiently waited until someone made a substitute for MU in order to let her keep reading Coiling Dragon in peace... Alas, no such site came to be.

Then she decided... "If no one is going to make it! I'll make the site myself!!!" And so NovelUpdates was born, in order to feed Tony-chan's addiction of Coiling Dragon and let her enjoy her daily updates in peace~



So... Why does this matter? Well... Back then, Coiling Dragon was an illegal translation that RWX was profiting from heavily by releasing extra weekly chapters on commission + Some cancerous and intrusive ads for further monetization.

Sure, WW has the rights to Coiling Dragon nowadays, but they definitely didn't have it back in 2015. NU was made in order to feed Tony-chan's addiction over a novel that was illegally profiting over copyrighted work... Do you seriously think she has any problem over people profiting over the translation of other novels? NU was made for the sake of tracking those very same novels for heaven's sake.

If the whole point of the thread was knowing rather Tony-chan cared about NU advertising illegal monetization of translated novels... Well, there is your answer, she doesn't.

PS: Mangaupdates never removed the novels from it in the end, but NU was already live by the time they decided that.

I have no idea where did the point about original authors came from, but... You're honestly asking how much the opinion of original authors matter in a directory of (mostly) illegal translations that never asked for permission nor have the right to translate something?

I mean, sure, I love the author of the novel I'm translating and deeply respect them for writing a novel I love... And that's about as much as I care for them. Unless they sent me an e-mail specifically asking me to stop translating their novel, I'd never ever interact with them.

 

Ok, I grant you this.

Yes, but please remember what I said about only reading and paying for the novel from the official site if you're interested in it. I don't have any means to police you but please make sure that you're upholding what you preach.

This reply is invalid. Remember, your concern is of translators who are profiting without the original author's consent. It does not matter whether they are selling a service or a product. Both are selling something. Please give me a better reply to convince me that you are not specifically annoyed at paywalls and are outraged at people making a business out of this in general.

Yes, I'm sorry to say this, but you are. If respect to original authors is really that important to you, don't support or read any novels that has been translated without the express permission of the original author. Alice has replied you on this point so I will not elaborate more.

 

this post is example of
unrelated to thread that may considered derailed from topic which already break the rule

maybe it problem with language but I think OP seem have mixed concern and using weird point to support it argument
ai~
dood
most "fan translation" is illegal~ WW is one of biggest "criminal" back then but as brasca alice stated they turn into legal one(with drama involved)

this thread become like hmm debate on circle
sigh sometime I wonder why some cat think author concern can used on this kind of argument~
policy~
author concern~

 

Copyright concerns are a headache. Some authors ans some publisher may oppose (not all of them) , but i seriously hope spontaneous translations will live long and strong
We have strong precedent to know they are valuable : I believe international manga translations in paper, as we know them now, would simply never have been the same as there are now without the hard work of fan scanslations. Many titles and a few genre (bl/gl) might never have left their home country without the fans that brought them out
And the same might go for novels. (Crossed fingers ! I really hope to buy some paper book from many titles i discovered with translations one day)
Required paiment from spon Translation makes me feel very complicated, i don’t feel so great for the author, and i hope it won’t endanger the whole thing for The benefits of a few

Yet I get that you can’t ask the administrator of nu to regulate each every title that is referenced here - Complicated