I wanted to get this off my chest because it's just so pervasive in the spoiler threads. People who are criticizing novels and manga with villainous/abusive MLs and/or the people enjoying these stories. I'm mostly referring to the stories that have a bad end for the MC either from the isekai: MC knows the ending/events will result in her death. Or from the reincarnation: Abused and killed by ML and tries to do things differently to avoid that end. Abandoned Empress and the end game ML is probably the biggest example of this. I understand some people might be uncomfortable with and try to avoid stories that contain violence, rape, death, or abuse towards the MC. However, you have the ultimate safe word of just not reading it if it makes you uncomfortable. You have the right to avoid these stories. You do not have the right to criticize the novels merely because they contain these themes or the people who might enjoy them. These stories can be done well or they can be done poorly but the point of fiction is to allow the audience to explore intense emotions and situations they might not want to encounter in real life. For example, I wouldn't want to be Bruce Wayne or Harley Quinn. The point of fiction is to explore these ideas, themes, emotions, and situations in a safe way where a real person isn't being hurt and where we can stop whenever we want. But to say that categorically these themes or situations shouldn't be written or that we shouldn't consume them or enjoy them is an infringement on expression and free speech. To criticize people who enjoy these stories and to say that they're not worth making or reading is incredibly rude and does nothing to further the conversation in any meaningful way. Reading some of the criticisms it seems people are ignoring the premise of these stories. That the goal of the character is to change the ending, to make better relationships, to change the ML. The author should be able to make the case that the ML has changed, that the characters are different from the previous life or from the novel isekai premise the MC has entered. Regardless of whether the author does this in a good or effective manner is up for debate and can be areas of valid criticism. Did the author do a good job redeeming the ML or antagonists in the MC's eyes? Did the author do a good job explaining or justifying the original bad ending? Did the author do a good job portraying the MC with agency? However, simply clinging to the past wrongs or the bad original ending to justify the assumption that all these stories are bad, the MC is weak, or there is no redemption is to ignore the foundational idea that there is free will, that everyone has the capacity for good or evil, and that we can change who we are and that we can change the future. The relationships created in the current storyline is what is important and the author can depict a healthy relationship based on the changes the MC makes and new information the characters gain. TLDR: Be respectful, don't attack the reader or the author. Criticize and engage with the work. That's what makes a creative community thrive.
Anyone can criticize anything they want for any reason. You can't stop them just because it makes you feel bad when their blanket statement happens to include you, that'll never happen. That said criticizing people for reading something or not reading something is stupid. But so is criticizing them for having an opinion. Also, rape in particular has a stronger effect on a lot of people because they've been hurt by it in reality. You may not have intended it but your stance portrays that reaction as having no basis or somehow being worth less than your own, which is pretty fucked up.
I just hate people who clearly hates the genre or trope but still reads the novel expecting something different and bitch about it in the review that it's not something they like because they hate the how the story is wrote. I like reading wish-fulfillment slice of life novel cause it can be entertaining in it's own stupid way and every time I see a review saying that "Don't read this it's a just a slice of life novel" I get irritated. Did we even read the same summary or did you even look at the tag, just by looking at those you can clearly see what type of novel it's going to be. I also hate people who give a low rating to novel that only have 5-7 chapter expecting expecting a story as deep as one piece.
There are valid criticisms and unfair criticisms towards a work. For threads on creative mediums, having an unnecessary amount of condescending criticisms against readers doesn't help anyone. The post was directed at people who think that just because they don't like or agree with the themes of the story, that gives them the right to attack people who are enjoying the story. I'm saying it's one thing to critique the execution and it's another to categorically condemn the themes and readers just because it's not someone's cup of tea. Yes, rape is a heavy subject, so is torture, war, and death. That doesn't mean stories with these ideas and themes shouldn't be created and can't be done in a nuanced, thoughtful way. I never said that the reaction of people who avoid these stories is unjustified or somehow worth less, particularly if it affects them in a highly negative way. It's that these discussions shouldn't happen in a spoiler thread and these discussions shouldn't attack the readers.
Exactly, the premise of these types of stories is the hey, what if: you knew that your life was going to end terribly and you had a chance to change that. The whole idea is that the life was to have ended tragically and people are mad that the life was tragic and the villain in the previous life could be redeemed in the new one. The best way to think of it is as a divergent timeline but people just refuse to believe that the ML has changed because in an alternate timeline he did horrendous things.
When i clicked the title i thought you wanted a recommendation or something.. turns out it was a rant.. I dont fully comprehend what you're ranting about. Especially since i dont read the novel series that you pointed out. But the type of genre where the MC(and readers) knows the bad ends, ofcourse some of the readers will compare them, they also want to explore "the perfect" route that goes along with their personal ideals. You cant really stop that bias.. Even i sometimes think, "aww.. the mc should've done that little tidbit instead of that." Some people are more more aggresively opinionated than others.. Tldr version: just have some more patience & tolerance or just like you suggest, dont read their comments..
I open this to see some recommendations regarding this type of genre. Its actually a great effort for a writer to write this kind of story and convince the reader about the choices made and I admire those kind of authors. If you dont like it. Dont read. I read alot of good books with trashy comments just because they think the MC is weak or the ML undeserving. No one is forcing you to read and if you read and you didnt like then its okay, comment to your hearts content but you dont need to think that others shouldve the same opinion as yours. Rape, murder, torture, any heinous crimes, they happen. And people falling for scums? They happen. Its just sad that in rral life you dont get to have second chances, so Ive been happy reading rebirth stories with different endings. World aint fairy tale. Ive Read history books, novels, love stories, tragedies and everything is great. At least they are someone's effort or someone's real experience. Read everything and dont take it to heart. That way you can read without bias.
I don't justify it but I think no one could really stop people to voice out their opinions on something, no matter how good or dumb it was, as long as it wasn't a made up. I agree that complaining on a genres or a theme is unreasonable to be the main focus of criticism, but unless they're just pointing it out like "this story has bla bla bla, so anyone of you who doesn't like it I'm warning you", I see no problem for something like this. I got your point on what you're trying to say, but we can't expect all people to be wise enough to do that. The one who read reviews have to be the one who can face it wisely to these kind of criticism, like for example don't mind and just ignore it like it wasn't there in the first place anyway, and read it by yourself.
You know I really really REALLY have to applaud you for summing it up so well. I'm one of the people giving secondhand spoilers in the AE thread and let me tell you it gets tiring to see people constantly misrepresent the story. It's clear as the day they didn't read anything past the one out-of-context spoiler about the ML and then started ranting. They don't get the nuances behind the characters or the simple idea that they shouldn't be judged by the actions of their future self especially when they haven't become the type of person capable of those actions/even know about said future. It's annoying and straight-up rude to me and the people spoiling this stuff (not just in AE but in other stories) that these people are either willfully ignorant or wholesale ignoring the important plot and narrative details we post. And it's disrespectful to the author when they put in so much thought into it and make it work to people who actually follow the story. I've known people who almost lose motivation to post spoilers because people won't stop misrepresenting the story. Trust me when I say they're seen as a nuisance to people actually putting in work to translating these AND to those who actually enjoy it. I'm fine with people criticizing the story. I get how a lot of points may seem slow, or maybe they think Tia hasn't recovered enough to realistically engage with Ruve, or maybe they even just prefer another love interest. That much is fine, but to flat-out say the ending is Stolkholm Syndrome (this was surprisingly common to hear in the AE spoiler thread before more spoilers came out), or that she's going back into an abusive relationship proves without a doubt that they missed the entire point of the story (and how both Timelines Ruves are viewed as different characters/people entirely). We can't stop people from posting the same tired misconceptions over and over, nor would I want to suppress or shout down anyone just because they have a different opinion. I think the best you can do is clarify the story as best as you can- those that will pay attention and appreciate it will be the ones you'll be able to win over- and post a positive review to counteract the negative ones. Heck, if you know a good amount of people who enjoy it get their help to positive review-bomb the story. If it's any solace to you the general reception to AE atm is pretty dang positive: it's arguably one of the more popular works the TL team Wandering Willows is doing, and from what I've heard it's not doing too bad in Korea either, makes sense since people are following it as it goes along and not jumping to conclusions based on out of context spoilers. Honestly, thank you for posting this and saying what needed to be said.
I think it's fair for MC who got abused and have rebirth/reborn to revenge on people, even if they haven't scheme against them yet.... since they will do it, eventually. I just don't understand the rape/abuse whatevers victims become lovers tag niche, I think it's more like stockholm syndrome or maybe MC is secretly anM that enjoyed being abused. ==a It xould be written well, but most of times its just... eh.
I kind of agree and disagree with you on this stance. I understand where you're coming from, because some people bash works without having read a substantial amount of it (and its obvious that it isn't criticism but bashing). But on the other hand, I feel as you've the right to criticize those people, they also have the right to provide criticism against those certain tropes and their execution, as well as the reader who might be posting superfluously positive reviews, not highlighting the misgivings of the work. There are many works that are otherwise decent but romanticize rape, toxic relationships, stalkerish behavior, unhealthy possessiveness and many of the readers (in my personal experience) often downplay it as 'ML was so COLD, tsundere aww' like no that's abuse; and if some people would like to point that out, especially if that goes against their morals, they've the right to do so in a respectful manner. Because if we go by the logic of 'ignore it, that doesn't concern them', then many societal issues will and wouldn't have ever gotten resolved. TBH, many such criticizers are the reason I didn't have to waste my time reading novels that propagated the "feminization of uke", "yandere ML is cool and romantic", etc kind of things. Sometimes they're well done, which yay but most of the time they're poorly executed and serve toxicity under the guise of romance which such criticizers blow the cover off of.