LCD Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka?

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by TUSF, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    The world's stability isn't exactly the greatest right now but it IS at the point where the world can recover on its own if left alone. The System probably should have been slowly shut down a long time ago given that 100% recovery is actually not necessary, but why would D make the thing so conveniently designed? It'd be boring if it actually cared about the people it was trying to help!

    I don't think gods in general are in charge of reincarnation. This seems to be a D/death god thing. Other pantheons don't appear to have any responsibilities worth noting beyond actions that ensure their own survival, such as not draining a planet so hard it dies like this one nearly did. If nothing else, it doesn't seem to be an inherent ability of gods to mess with souls given that heresy magic is extremely difficult and Shiro and Gyurie aren't really capable of using stuff like Soul Break yet. Since the dragons that were in charge of the world before this weren't anything special I rather doubt they were capable of it either. D's ability to mess with reincarnation is also indicated to be a fairly unusual thing to be able to do.

    If the people had died, humanity of that world have gone extinct, but their souls should have been fine. I mean, you can speculate that they might receive some sort of afterlife punishment for messing with the planet, but would D actually care enough to do so? So this would be purely speculation, though you do indicate it's just a guess on your part.

    I really don't think Julius thought he was going to die. Whenever it came to something to do with Shiro he freaked out and stabbed the lil spider clones that would hang out around him. That doesn't give the impression of someone who is choosing to die to remove the hero title from existence. Also, information on the Hero title is super classified. I don't know if even Taboo would tell you that much about it and I can't imagine Julius had Taboo 10.

    Yes, if Sariel is capable of Soul Break, she really should have tracked down Potimas. I don't know if that means she can't or if she's just that dumb. Probably the latter.

    Moving to another planet is really not a feasible solution. Potimas had the tech to move himself, but does the planet have the resources to make stuff to evacuate the entire population? Our planet sure doesn't. Also, other worlds are owned by other gods. Is there anywhere for them to go?

    Up to this point it's just minor quibbling on details, but I don't think you really understand D. D is knowingly torturing this world and everyone in it. Yes, she did things that helped save the world up to this point, but only out of pure self interest and at basically no cost to herself. She has repeatedly interfered with the ability of the System to actually repair the world, most notably by banning Gyurie from killing Potimas thousands of years ago. Also, giving everyone Taboo is absolutely not a kind thing to do. Taboo is a skill designed to inflict slow, mind breaking torture on everyone who gets it. She didn't use her own energy to hand it out either, she just swiped all that energy that someone tried to blow her up with and used it to curse every human and demon on the planet. That energy can't be recovered until all those people die either. And should the System be shut down? It puts more stress on all their souls, causing more of them to collapse.

    D did go out of her way to cause Shiro suffering and mislead her. Remember, D shared a few fragments of her memories with Shiro by giving a tiny sliver of her soul, but D doesn't have memories of being ugly and hated. These are lies D told her to make her more emotionally damaged. She also has outright fake memories like having had parents, even if she didn't see them much. There are also numerous points in the story where D takes action to cause suffering for little benefit. Like yeah it's kind of funny and super petty to eat ice cream in front of the spider, but when I think back on it you have to remember that Shiro is legitimately traumatized by her upbringing in Elro, including having to eat poison and live in a lava hellscape where she could barely rest thanks to the constant pain and risk of both monster attack and catching on fire.

    Everything D does so far is based on her desire to be entertained with no thought given to the pain and suffering she is causing. That is evil. Now billions of souls are at stake because she stopped Potimas from being dealt with and then returned the accidentally stolen MA energy in the least helpful way possible.

    I'm not sure why you say Shun is refusing to act? He wasn't aware that the world was in such bad shape until like two days ago even if he found this world subtly creepy. Every time he tries to do something, someone else interferes as well. I'd feel sorry for him if I cared about him at all.

    Those things about Shun not stepping in to help seem to to be anime/LN flaws added in. I'll refrain from commenting on those because I frankly do not like that version of events at all compared to the WN.


    No, him having gotten the title of hero is a problem. Him continuing to be the hero doesn't really do anything. Also, physical weakness is not a sin. He also doesn't get the big picture because no one will tell him anything so he has to make decisions based on what he knows. At the moment all he knows is that millions will die if Shiro succeeds and two innocent gods will die if Dustin succeeds. Most of us have inferred that Dustin's plan is worse but right now all he knows is that Dustin surely must have a plan because just maintaining the status quo is not good enough.

    It's actually Wrath that is choosing to kill as many people as possible right now so as to keep them from bearing the strain of so much sudden damage to their souls. And it's not Shiro putting souls in a repository, I think? It's that they don't really have time to reincarnate before the System goes down. She does extend her personal protection to a few individuals, though, but there are way too many people for to help everyone like that.

    I mean, you can argue that there isn't much she really can do for them. That's fine and I believe it as well. The point that sticks out to me though is that she explicitly doesn't even care what happens to them all. She won't even stick around for a minute afterward to help humanity from wiping itself out when society inevitably collapses.
     
  2. Ishmael

    Ishmael 『Owl』『Butler』『Traveler』

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    Well now I know why I don't like Shun that much, this is very well thought out ~
     
  3. NZPIEFACE

    NZPIEFACE Leecher

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    To explain Shiro's plan so that everyone remembers it:
    Rip the System away. Removing the System from high levelled people will cause them to die. I have no idea if this collapses their souls into energy or not. The energy from the System would be used into making sure the world recovers. People souls would then be allowed to reincarnate normally, or whatever the hell is supposed to happen.

    I thought the situation was that thousands of years of stripping away abilities and essentially washing the souls was wearing them down. While the planet is basically half-dead, it's not gone yet, but the soul's of the residents are closer to super-close to dead? The System wasn't built to be a long term solution.
     
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  4. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    After stopping to think about it I realize there's so much we still don't know, such as how fill rate compares to world repair. So I'm not sure I can really answer that. But yes, on the current course, all the souls will collapse soon. What this means for the planet itself is still unclear because it sounds like it would survive in the half dead state it's in right now and maybe recover on its own so long as no one messed with it.

    Hmm. Pure speculation following, but maybe Dustin's plan is that they murder like half the population or more, which causes the number of souls in the System not actively being used to increase. This lets them rest between reincarnations, allowing them to recover a little before reincarnating the next time. Then he just keeps murdering people to keep the population low and stable to let the world repair itself really slowly. They don't need to gather as much energy at once as they did before now that there isn't anyone actually using the MA energy now that Potimas is dead.

    I really don't know.
     
  5. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    Part of the difficulty of estimating this is that things like the fill rate are variable (ie unpredictable) and depends upon the situation on the ground. For a given population size the only way to increase the fill rate is for the population to train harder / fight more. This is why Ariel always planned to stoke up wars between the humans and the demons - it was the only way to increase the fill rate significantly.

    If the world became peaceful then the fill rate would plummet, leading to a Bad End where the System eventually collapses and everyone dies.

    Either way, the population is already in decline due to souls becoming more worn out. Gyurie had created a safe haven for particularly worn out souls but given that the world population was declining anyway it seems that wasn't enough - that giving souls a significant amount of time to rest wouldn't solve the problem.

    Very much a case of "choose your poison".
     
  6. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't the issue that your soul doesn't recover while you're alive anyway? So souls near the breaking point wouldn't degrade any more but I don't think they recovered.

    Hard to say.
     
  7. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    Pulling skills from people would recover energy - Shiro's solution wouldn't work otherwise. But the very act of doing that harms their souls if too much is done too quickly. If there was a slow way to pull the skills from people then the number of deaths could be reduced.


    Yes, the System was always intended to be "temporary" - it could never run forever due to the wear and tear on the souls within it.

    They don't recover while they're alive, correct. Though I'd imagine that during the gap between their next reincarnation they'd recover to a better state than without Gyurie's experiment but it's still not enough. The general impression I get is that souls would need 100s of years of inactivity to recover significantly. So forcibly making lots of souls inactive likely wouldn't solve the problem - the remaining active souls would have to work even harder to compensate. Essentially, whether the population declines due to fewer people being born or due to the population being culled, either leads to a death spiral.

    On a side note, I'd imagine that D returning a lot of energy to the System would help. However, if it's "spent" by directly giving energy to Gyurie (or Shiro) and they use it up in their battle then that doesn't necessarily help the System. Basically, it only helps when people die with Taboo.
     
  8. Kphone89

    Kphone89 Well-Known Member

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    I typed out a lot and did editing for over 75 minutes total-and then I decided to erase it.
    I'll just agree to heavily disagree with you.

    Edit:
    WAIT WAIT WAIT. What. o_o
    Does having Taboo when you die change the value of your energy?
    ie:
    N skills worth 100 MA = 100 MA to system
    N-1 skills +taboo worth 100 MA = (100 x N) to system?​
    I had a stupid theory I didn't want to recognize or mention anywhere, but-
    Will Shun's death provide enough MA energy to restore the world because of his Divine Protection of Heaven?​
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  9. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm not saying Taboo is somehow special. All skills are "energy". D gave all humans in the world the Taboo skill. Given the large number of humans that requires a correspondingly large amount of energy. If all that energy was returned to the System itself then it would be in much better shape, though not quite as good a shape as it was in before the Demon King and Hero from ~15 years ago wasted all that energy.

    But... there's a problem: D also provided people with a way to get rid of Taboo. By "praying" to a particular god. Which means that the energy for the Taboo skill gets removed and transferred to the god. Which means it leaves the System. But if people die with Taboo still then the energy would be permanently returned to the System. I forgot to add that if Shiro is able to shut down the System while many people still have Taboo then that would likely also help in terms of the total amount of energy, though would probably also increase the number of people who would die.


    No chance. Even sacrificing Gyurie wouldn't be enough. Only a high level god (Sariel or higher) would be enough at the level of a single individual.
     
  10. IsekaiGuardian1

    IsekaiGuardian1 Active Member

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    I think the novels are better than the anime usually right? While it's fun watching the anime, the producerst skip too much of the novels plot and storyline and leave out important filler content...
     
  11. sjmcc13

    sjmcc13 Well-Known Member

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    That depends a lot on the production crew, sometimes they make it better, but it requires a lot of work figuring out what is necessary background info, and what is just useless filler.
     
  12. IsekaiGuardian1

    IsekaiGuardian1 Active Member

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    I mean like side story content, or they'll skip over a side story plot that adds personality and context to certain characters...
     
  13. Nepagear

    Nepagear Well-Known Member

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    that's the reason why I stopped watching animes that came from light novels, because light novel has too many minute to minute details that explains the plot whole...and also my imagination is much more vast than the scenes *specially fighting scenes* animated in animes, still watching anime kinda helps with imagining the characters appearances so I sometimes still watch
     
  14. IsekaiGuardian1

    IsekaiGuardian1 Active Member

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    I get you. I enjoy reading the novels more than watching the anime. Unless the anime closely follows the novels storyline and doesn't skip any details.
     
  15. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    The web novel and light novel have similar plots but very different tones which makes some characters quite different than they were originally. The manga leaves out everything to do with Shun's party. The anime leaves in all the Shun stuff and cuts down on a lot of Kumoko's inner narration and speeds up or outright skips a lot of some scenes.

    Between the four different ways you can experience the story, I think the web novel is probably the best, but unfortunately the middle third has a poor translation.
     
  16. Tea leaves

    Tea leaves Well-Known Member

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    Kuro might be the most indecisive character in the whole story. If from the very start of operation of the system he quickly finished of Potimas even if he might be killed of by D for ruining her fun and being hated by Sariel for killing a human that she wishes to protect.
    Furthermore Sariel is pretty stupid for being a goddess. Why would she protect the very same human that did not listen to her and want her to sacrifice herself for them.
    After all as long the world is safe and the soul can be reincarnated safely for future life form then everything is good. Now look at her choice the world is going to be destroyed in 100-200 years in the future unless 80% or more souls will be crushed or Sariel soul be crushed and Kuro will replace her in managing the system to buy time and hope fix everything in the future.
    Shiro wants a total reset while everyone else want to continue the shit game.
     
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  17. Arha

    Arha Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's Sariel's fault that she's the way she is, even if it's super frustrating to watch her. She's basically a malfunctioning robot that happens to have broken in a way that was convenient to humans but interfered with the way she's supposed to be doing her job.
     
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  18. Kphone89

    Kphone89 Well-Known Member

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    Although I support the path where Kuro should be willing to kill himself for his love(?) in exchange for erasing the Potimas, I can definitely see Potimas being revived.
    As far as I'm aware, D only stopped his direct interference-godly interference.
    • Kuro could've sent divine oracles to hunt down and exterminate Potimas and his clones.
    • Kuro could've ordered his dragon-monster creations to hunt them down.
    • Kuro might've been able to create mortal clones and sent them to hunt them down (as long as he's not possessing them).
    • Furthermore, both Sariel and Kuro had all the opportunities in the world to kill Potimas before the system was put in place. D was only forcing Kuro to maintain his former stance. "Since Sariel didn't go to kill Potimas, I, Kuro, won't kill him (despite every other dragon trying to kill all of humanity because of that one insect)."
    Going a step further, humanity was threatened merely because Potimas existed so Dustin should've done everything possible to eliminate them. Being Potimas, related to him, or an elf should've been the gravest sin within the religions he controls.
    Foddway should've also prioritized killing Potimas out of revenge. Not only did Potimas ruin the world, he also turned him into a vampire.
    Between human experiments, leading the world to its destruction, and being responsible for the demons who became humanities' enemy, every single human should've done everything possible to kill him.

    -And yet later, all the human kingdoms happily became the "elves' friends".
    &Edit: colors
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  19. sjmcc13

    sjmcc13 Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly, There are side chapters with Shun starting in Vol 3 (vols 3, 4, 6, and 8 or the 9 I have), might need to buy the volumes to see them never saw them on any translators site.
     
  20. Tea leaves

    Tea leaves Well-Known Member

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    You forgot but by Ariel protecting all of humanity (including Potimas) she antagonize all the Dragons. The dragons wants to kill all the humans and destroy all their technology but Sariel being stupid protected them and the dragons couldn't defeat her so they stole the world energy and left. The only Dragon that stayed behind was Kuro.
    Unless your an administrator it was nearly impossible to kill Potimas because of his tech. Most magic doesn't activate when fighting against Potimas. Furthermore any skills and magic that is being supported by the system are sealed. Even Ariel the strongest below an Administrator can't even destroy the elves barrier. Furthermore if they can't finished off Potimas in one fell shoop the world energy will be depleted much faster by Potimas. Cause all his weapons used the world's energy as a power source.