Spoiler Latest Chapter Discussion Thread for Death Mage Raws

To be fair, Heinz didn't know Van will become gods after Van die.

 

I just read other novel and FEMALE JEALOUS is Scary .
Van ia lucky in this departement.

 

He should even be luckier that he has no yandere in his harem (vs a certain president of Parabellum having a harem nearly full of nothing but yanderes and making a few more in process lol)

 

Van is doing all sorts of experiments with Undead. That'll probably lead to something of significance.

For higher level undead (eg Borkus, Boneman) I'd guess that the only effect of Van's death on them would be to lose Van's passive buffs, like everyone else. I'd say that Van dying causing all the undead under him to go crazy is an unproven assumption though Van seems to think that it's reasonable.

Not only that but he's focusing on reviving Bellwood for now anyway. Meaning, he's just delaying the "problem" himself. And blissfully ignoring the fact that Bellwood would never agree with him.

 

FYI: Gufadogarn was originally conceived as a yandere.

She'd have been really scary as one...

 

Well Mc in pinch right now, love carnage happens! !! !

Well at least Gufa-chan yan to everything that Van or Zakkart consider enemy .

 

But he does know Van has some measure of control over death.

We know that Bellwood's guidance can wear off, so Van's guidance can wear off. It is less likely to happen to those with Self-Reinforcement: Guidance, but it can slowly happen.

She's as close to yandere as a weird alien can get. I don't think she's capable of the full spectrum of human emotion. Romance is more or less beyond her, so she worships and admires Van as a divine superior instead. So she loves Van, but her love is very unusual.

 

She would probably want him to work on additional safeguards, which would be understandable.

Heinz 's answer is pure idiocy, but what do you expect from someone who worships a champion of evil pretending to be good like Bellwood.

 

Maybe if Van sealed.

 

Van is immortal and keeps growing stronger at a rapid pace. He is becoming less killable all the time.

Heinz has his heart in the right place, but he's too much of a pushover. He has firm beliefs that aren't too different from Van's, but lets Alda tell him to act against those beliefs. Heinz's biggest problem is that he doesn't know when to say his superiors (rather than himself or his enemies) are wrong. He's reforming his religion, but not once did it occur to him that he should bring his reforms to the big cheese of that religion.

His second biggest problem is that he's under the false impression that he must be a hero because Alda chose him. The reality is that the mortal chooses the god, not the other way around. If Heinz rejects Alda's leadership, Alda can just take back his divine protection, be disappointed, and then choose a different hero to represent him. Heinz does not have to be the one carrying the burden of being a hero. Of course, Alda doesn't really have a choice now, since he doesn't have the time to produce any heroes that can catch up to Heinz and defeat Van, but Heinz does have a choice.

Maybe, but only if Van is fully sealed, without even a single fragment left unsealed. Each individual fragment of Van self-identifies as Van, so any free part of Van can easily free the rest of himself from any seal Alda's technology is capable of.

 

And something tells me that if things go extremely terrible in the second Alda/vida war then he'll transfer some more of his soul over to origin to preserve strength then self reincarnated himself back over at some point to spread a "everyone who believes in Alda and co dies" plague or something similar to the one he used in the talosheim war except it spreads faster, further and kills you in a day or so

 

I don't know, personally, I don't think Heinz's heart is in the right place. Especially after chapter 200, it's very clear Heinz overall viewpoint is "humans (/elves/dwarves) first". As Van notes, at the end of the day "Alda harmony" equates to Vida races being second-class citizens instead of being the targets of genocide.

When confronted with the issue of the Ghouls being treated as monsters, or the Titans from Talosheim who were falsely imprisoned, Heinz's first reaction is to say how it affects the humans. "Sorry Van, politics won't allow me to make people stop murdering these fully sentient beings we treat as savages." "Van, how could you destroy that mine that was holding illegal slaves when this human town was benefiting from them?" Heck, Heinz's solution to Van is to have the power to kill him first and try to understand him second. Which just got even more questionable after seeing how someone with similar concerns, Botin, reacted in this arc.

In fact, we actually have tons of foils to Heinz to show how people with different priorities react to Van and the Vida races. Schneider, whose first priority is the protection of Vida races, joins Van willingly to help the Vida enclaves escape persecution. Marshukzal, whose first priority is his people, does whatever it takes to keep neutrality with Van after he sees what Van is capable of, and then readily turns against Alda when he sees Alda's going to throw his empire into the meat grinder. When Randolf sees that Van's just another ruler out to protect his interests, his first thought is to let him do whatever he pleases. Even a dumb-dumb like Asagi wants to create and spread technology that will allow other countries to counter Van if the need arises, to maintain a balance of power on Lambda.

Though you're also not wrong at all about Heinz's honestly somewhat unearned messiah complex (though he did save Selene, I will give him that). All these people actually responsible for others negotiate with Van, ally with Van, you know, like actual cites and nations and other political bodies do. But Heinz, Heinz needs the power of Bellwood so he can kill Van, and then he'll ask Van what he plans to do if he dies and the undead go berserk. Because how dare Van offend those humans after 100,000 years of systematic genocide and oppression. How dare that disenfranchised minority use violence to protect his own interests too, after Heinz and his friends captured Van's mother and then just watched as a zealot burned her at the stake, leaving Van to starve to death as an infant.

Uh, anyway, main point being, I feel like Heinz's world view is basically garbage to the core, not just an issue of trusting "Lord God" over the Dhampir boy. I'd honestly be interested to see if there's a line Heinz wouldn't be willing to cross. Would he stop at killing everyone in Talosheim and not just Van? Would he stop at killing Selen? But he's going to be turned into Bellwood's meat puppet anyway, so we'll probably never find out. Not going to be so fun when you're the one being exploited and oppressed by the social, economic and religious systems you happily take advantage of to be a messianic hero, will it Heinz?

 

That's actually a very natural way of action and I praise Densuke for making Heinz more human through that. He lived all his life with that belief, do you think that suddenly learning that there are more people of Vida too would instantly make a super review on his mind?

Not only that, let's also understand that he is a pacifist, supposedly, before going deciding an action, he wants to review all the data. Just throwing "That dukedom enslaved Titans from Talosheim for 200 years", can you really suddenly go "Yeah, the duke deserves that"? He was just suddenly thrown a bunch of information that he was unaware of with no validation or proof besides "I said so", if it was a discussion and he was given a debate and time it's possible he would even eventually agree with Van, however, all the talk was to buy time until Van was ready for battle, Van has no interest in reforming Heinz and his group, only vengeance.

I agree with those that says Heinz is naturally a good guy, problem is, the amount of stuff he learned was just bad, and unlike Schneider who met and saved an Arachne, and then learned that Alda was wrong, Heinz never had such luck, you must be thinking that he met Ghouls, right? But Ghouls also attack humans despite already being seen as monsters. Ghouls when attacking humans work like proud warriors rather than asking for peace, as such, it's part of their job to kill, and it's not like Heinz razed villages either, most likely, fighting random Ghouls in a forest as part of subjugation quests.

He is such a good guy that once he learns about the whole story from Mills, he understood how much of a better job he is doing for Vida races, to the point of saving even the races that he didn't knew about. His only problem with Van is pretty much the same as Asagi found: The usage of Demon King Fragments.

I do wonder how the other 2 who received no injuries and had to wait a year for the others to recover have to go through in their minds, it was said that they were pretty perplexed that they killed ghouls without knowing the truth, but to what extent will this go on?

 

Heinz is at least pushing for the unalienable right to exist as people, which is (hypothetically) a step up from being treated like monsters, so I'm not complaining about his political goals. It's possible that Heinz thinks the status quo can be changed only a little bit at a time without inviting various kinds of problems. While I agree with Van that it's better to go 4 steps at a time and give Vida's races equal rights from the start, it's also true that Van is attracting lots of undue attention by doing things his own way.

And he's right, sort of. Heinz isn't as effective a politician as Van is, so he can't push through certain policies as easily as Van can. Of course, this may or not be because Heinz is a pushover. He's also an Alda believer, and no self-respecting Alda believer would break the law to do the right thing, as strange as that may seem when phrased plainly this way.

This is a classic example of the trolley problem. Van took action and saved a minority of people, while Heinz would have saved the majority of people by doing nothing. While I understand where Heinz is coming from, I hate that he doesn't think outside the box. A mine doesn't need to be run by slaves, so Hartner isn't even in trouble. This just means more job opportunities, so hire miners and alchemists to replace the slaves.

Heinz did try to understand Van when they actually had a face-to-face conversation, and then again while Mill was healing him. Heinz understands Van as much as he possibly can without actually putting himself in Van's shoes.

Heinz believes violence generally isn't the answer for political stuff. And Darcia's death is the one huge mistake that convinced Heinz to reform in the first place, so you can't use that to argue that he is a hypocrite.

Yeah, that is hilariously backward. I understand why he thinks that way, but I can't really justify it at all.

I think his worldview is garbage, but not entirely garbage. And it's actually an issue of trusting his god over himself. He doesn't have to trust Van to agree with Van's policies.

He'll deeply regret crossing those lines.

 

Two small issues:
A. Mine is technically destroyed (Van crushed it when he went to save Talosheim descendants along with running into Luciliano, possibly thinking of the mountains as well, Hartner read out the report on the Talosheim slaves)

B. Would current Hartner head be willing to spend the coin to train and hire professionals (meaning their safety has to be checked as well as pay) or will he go back to slaves and criminals (easily abundant and replaceable plus some... 'nobles'... are penny-pinchers).

 

How did Van destroy the mine? It can still be salvaged or rebuilt, yes? Just hire people to fix up the mine. It will be worth it in the end.

He can go back to using slaves, but definitely not for over a century. Just no illegal slaves.

 

Hence why I said slaves lol (majority (if not all) of Vida's races in Orbaume Election Kingdom are gone, illegal slavery is no longer a question).

And the mine destruction was chapter 84 (2/3 size of the mountain was wiped out when Van was using Corpse Flame Prison Destruction Barrage with Levia and a few of the ghosts (mana being sent to them for the destruction basically) )

https://lightnovelbastion.com/release.php?p=931

 

If I remember correctly he collapsed it all completely and then destroyed the mountain, the ore could have either been in the mountain or under it and it's only recoverable if the ore is under or else it's been blasted to the wind with nothing left to mine.

Edit

But he only destroyed half the mountain and the mine was at the base so... It might have been recoverable if van didn't tilt the castle...

 

One thing I need to add is that the mine was almost dry.

 

Interesting point. Guduranis fragments become weird mishapen things that have a will of their own to recombine. Vandaleu fragments are just perfect copies of Vandaleu with the exact same fully functional consciousness but less mana. Yet another way Van is superior.

You Know? The USSR had a term for this. It's called political correctness. Heinz is pushing it a little with this Alda Harmony stuff, but he is still a very politically correct individual in terms of the Alda doctrine.