Spoiler Latest Chapter Discussion Thread for Death Mage Raws

just a random question but how would superman, galactus or dr Manhattan compare to vans skills and stats
(i expect dr manhattan and i guess galactus to far outstrip van but just for comparisons sake)

 

That's a pretty interesting new perspective on this thing, and I think you may have something going there. I would have liked to comment more on that, but instead I have to point out that you are being very unreasonably combatative with that last line in a way that I think is just plain unfair since you are essentially introducing a new line or way of looking at things that @heiro001 clearly never even conceived of and trying to implicate his intentions with it. Going by his last comments, I don't think he really cares, but when I read that it just gave me a negative feeling that just had to be addressed. Let's not treat each other in here like that.

 

That's not necessarily the same thing. Adventurers exist mainly to curb the monster population and collect useful materials, right? There are many vicious monsters out there that are not sapient enough to reason with. Such as ents.

That's definitely not the same thing. Ternecia worshipped a very villainous evil god, and Van was trying to kill him. Perfectly justified.

Because he's the only one who can. Alda's faction sure isn't going to reform Heinz, so who else will? Well, Botin's faction, I suppose...

Heinz is under the impression that killing Van as soon as possible is somehow saving people. At least in his mind, the good outweighs the bad.

Heinz has only heard about the Vidal Empire from Van, and nobody else. He has not seen the Vidal Empire in person. I'm not sure if he's fully aware that it's a real place with real people. For him, it's not even remotely personal.

And of course Van continues talking in blank disgust, with the occasional armor-piercing snark.

Alda's church does not. Alda isn't planning on establishing diplomatic relations or trade deals, so why bother telling his believers about it?

I want to see Van introduce the other great gods to Heinz. We'll get to see Vida's death glare, Botin's disapproving frown, Peria's pity, and Zantark's unnatural stillness. And Zuruwarn and Ricklent will briefly glance at Heinz, then go back to their chess game.

And then Heinz is told everything Alda never told him.

Doctor Doom. :V

 

The only way I can see this happening is if van, darcia and Heinz meet in a city and one of the great gods summon them into the godly realm before anything can start (which I doubt would happen in a city anyways) and then reveal all the facts to him and his team so he can make a decision based on nonbiased facts (that's were botin, zuruwan, ricklent and Peria come in)

 

Or maybe it would happen after Heinz crosses the mountain range for the first time.

 

If Heinz tries to cross the mountain range then vida better be informed fast because vans defensive grid of spirits and undead skull cameras would find him very fast which would lead to a big fight which vida would have to intervene in herself to stop (or multiple abyssal pure breeds could force them both to stand down by saying "vida has summoned you both, follow us" but something tells me that not many people have the guts to get in vans way when he's pissed (he would feel threatened by a powerful enemy on his doorstop) .

 

I think Darcia with Vida descend skill is enough

Someone already say it but schneider save Lamia

No it's no enough.

 

Do you think that if we saw him happily kill pregnant ghoul women we’d be giving him the thumbs up?

 

SAVAGE COMMENT

 

Oh, by the way, if anyone still cares, we passed 300 pages.

 

Sadly a little late ;p

By the way sorry for offtopic guys but I got one question: are there any earth-based jobs available to van that could be similar(have similar function/effect) to guider jobs from lambda world ? even if you guys arent sure I would be happy to hear your guys opinion which of earth jobs could possible similar role.

 

I don't know if Lambda has a Messiah for a job (seen Guiders and Champions so far). Could technically be both title and job.

 

I know.

On the other hand, I think it's clear enough that Densuke could have easily done things to make readers hate Heinz more. Eg, simply by showing such scenes rather than telling them. It feels like he's been quite fair when showing the viewpoints of Alda, Heinz etc...

Going back to the original point a bit, while it's true that readers naturally tend to sympathise with the viewpoint character, there are limits. After all, just think about how often you've read complaints about loser MCs in web novels? It's a very common complaint.

Heinz is at least better than the average person in the Amid Empire, who it seems were happy to see Darcia burnt at the stake. On the other hand, what did Heinz do? Go to somewhere that's already nicer to the Vida races (relatively speaking). Basically, he ran away from the problem to a large degree. While he's reliable when fighting actual monsters, he generally folds when up against his fellow humans. So while he's at least not oblivious to the problem and actually realises that there is a problem, his "solutions" are weak and half-hearted.

He's had 12 years or so to make a difference and he has made a slight improvement but that's all. The differences are small enough that it would be trivial to reverse. And reviving Bellwood is going to be far worse than simply undoing his slight improvements. Reviving Bellwood is by far the worst possible thing that Heinz could do.

 

Fair point

It's not like Heinz could realize what he's about to do with the information at his disposal, Heinz all his life has been told that bellwood was a champion of justice (possibly in both the amid empire and the orbaune kingdom) and while he does know that some of his followers are very fanatic people he knows that bellwood has been asleep for enough time for his followers to go wild.

Either way we have enough information to say that bellwood is very bad news but Heinz doesnt, all he really knows is that he was a champion who saved the world. (I think)

 

I'm not sure it would even matter as Heinz seems completely unconcerned that there could possibly be any downside in what he's doing despite the fact that he disagrees with Alda's current stance and that he knows that Bellwood was the leading force on Alda's side. He should be aware of the reasons why groups like the Bellwood extremists actually exist. There's plenty of quotes and legends about Bellwood that would completely support Alda's current stance, for example. He's also heard plenty from Mill, though I'm not sure if that included details on Bellwood.

While I'm sure that there's no way Heinz could guess just how dangerous Bellwood is, it's a failure of imagination on his side to be blissfully unconcerned about the potential danger.

 

And he will realize that everything Alda stands for is what's wrong with the world the moment he talks to bellwood and co.

If he releases bellwood then he better run cause bellwood will probably try to kill him and his team for trying to help vidas races so he will probably lose either a couple members of his team or all of his team and be critically injured before making it out of the dungeon and getting medical attention before trying to ask botin, Peria, zuruwan or ricklent for help as they stayed out of the alda/vida war (unless Alda lied and said they participated then he'll just ask vida(by ask I mean pray and hope for and reply))

 

What man hath wrought...
...Let no god put asunder.

Getting trapped in hero narratives and a lack of imagination and empathy has also been a general thematic through-line in the story, from the battle-minded champions wanting to uphold the principle of no nukes eventually leading to all but 3000 people on Lambda dying, to Rodcorte constantly shooting himself in the foot because he can't be bothered with the problems and concerns of mere bits and bytes in his system, to Avalon being able to cause the Bravers to self-destruct because of various members who weren't or didn't want to be superheroes like Amemiya forced them to be, to Fitun taking over Hajime through promises of becoming an epic hero, and so on.

Sure, it may be understandable that Heinz doesn't know any better, but Densuke has consistently been interested in portraying these kinds of traits as foolish or tragic character failings rather than just instances of dramatic irony outside the various characters' control.

 

Incidentally, talking of Bellwood, there's an interesting comment from the author (in the comments section):
　ベルウッドの導きは……下手に自分らしさが残る分、まるで話し合って分かり合ったような錯覚をしてしまうので、危険かもしれません。

It's a bit hard to translate but I think he's saying that Bellwood's Guidance can be considered dangerous as in the worst case the skill can leave little of the original personality remaining, giving the impression that simply by speaking to people Bellwood can get them to agree with him.

 

Actually he does, or at least enough to know that further research is required. He just refuses to analyze it properly.
First of, the propaganda has bellwood being to perfect, that is a clear sign something is up.
He has found issues with Alda's teachings including pieces that are also part of Bellwoods teachings. which means all those should are in quesiton. The very nature of those issues are so core to Alda's teachings and world view that EVERYTHING needs to be questioned if you question them.

When they were going back into the Trial of Zakkart, they looked into the knowledge of the champions and found that much has been misattributed to the combat champions and everything from Zakkart was removed from history. Which is a strong evidence that the stories are propaganda, and the gods have removed parts ot spin it in their favour.

Heck that Big G even targeted Zakkart over Bellwood should be a clear indication to any historian with a functioning brain that Zakkart was up to something that Big G feared, and that everything he did is missing from history means the gods are hiding things.

The thing is Heinz started a revelation and fled from it like a coward because continuing would mean admitting he is a serial killer in service to EVIL gods, doubling down on the rest of what he was taught like a good murder drone.

 

Ah, so we did. Woot.

Heinz in a nutshell.

Bellwood's believers have been wild from the beginning, though.

Heinz has not been raised to be imaginative at all. He deeply regrets his mistakes after he makes them, but he completely lacks the forethought to avoid the avoidable.

Does this refer to Bellwood the champion or Bellwood the god? Bellwood's guidance was downgraded to "divine charisma". But it's still very dangerous nonetheless, I'm sure.

There is no immediately obvious reason to question propaganda you already believe. If you don't believe the propaganda, it's not doing its job as propaganda in the first place.