Spoiler Latest Chapter Discussion Thread for Death Mage Raws

I don't think we need another world again because story with 5 world eventhough only 2 of them as focus is already complex

 

The attributes are all based on natural principles and elements, which are easy to observe. The only addition i could imagine would be a system with the 5 eastern elements instead of the 4 western we have now. Looking at this list can you think of anything else?

Reasoning that might have lead to the current attributes:
Light - things can be seen (or not = darkness)
Life - some things have a life force
Death - something makes that life force decrease
Space - other places exist
Time - stuff happened last week (probably, last thursdayism excluded)
Elements - there's wind, earth, water and sometimes fire in nature
Elements 2 - there are trees and metal, air is useless

 

Someone made a comment a while back about how if Van became a god, at least one of his domains/divinities that he would maintain would be death attribute magic, and theorized that likely the reason death attribute magic can't be used is because with no god governing it, using it requires a ridiculously high bar for mana consumption.

This theory seems to make a lot of sense. It could be that the death attribute is a natural force just like all the other attributes, but in order for a mortal being to use that attribute they need the assistance of a god controlling and maintaining it in order to lower the mana consumption bar for them to even be able to use it in the first place. They cannot sink 1,000 mana for a basic spell like sterilize just to practice the attribute's most basic capacities, and even those mages who do have that kind of mana to burn would have already grown used to using spells of other elements and would have no reason to think to try out an undiscovered attribute and would instead stick to the ones they are used to.

Now, as for why they have never had a god governing the death attribute, I think we can very well just look to the trouble it causes with the fact that it enables the destruction of souls. If it is that troublesome, then even in worlds where the death attribute IS discovered the gods may ban other gods from supporting it by unspoken agreement.

 

if death magic can destoy souls then what attribute can create them?

 

Darkness is a part of the light attribute;
Considering that, it might be possible that life can be created with the death attribute once someone reaches a sufficient level (life attribute deals more with the physical aspects, death attributes with spiritual ones)

It reminds me of the life gold van made unknowingly: it could be a first step. It did move without a soul after all.

 

Darkness is not part of light, shadow is the one.
Also there gods with darkness attribute in earth.

 

Darkness is not a listed attribute, Origin has eight attributes (Light, Life, Wind, Fire, Water, Earth, Space, & Death*) and Lambda has nine (previously listed plus Time). Remember that the Eighth Guidance takes their name from Death-Attribute being the eighth known attribute in Origin.

Vandalieu has the blessing of Earth's "Dark" gods, but you would not say there is an "Evil-Attribute" because of the evil gods on Lambda. Light and the absence of light (shadow or darkness) are considered to be the same attribute.

 

tbh until i read that i didn't know the meaning for the name "eighth guidance"

and i think the god of darkness was one of the two gods preceding the known lambda with vida, alda, etc.

 

In chapter 3 they're listed as "The great black god, Diachmell" and "The great white god, Arazan", so they're not explicitly named with attributes, but generic colors.

 

Well, in Earth religions in which a god of death has existed, the god of death tends to have dominion over souls and death is also seen as a transformation and often has elements of rebirth. Therefore, it would not be in the least bit strange for the soul-manipulation side of death magic to also have abilities that would allow it to create souls.

I am in full agreement with the above posts on this one that theorized as such, the life-gold and soul-silver likely have something to do with this. It kinda makes me wonder, haven't they tried putting the soul silver inside of the life gold yet? I haven't seen anything about them attempting such a thing, and it just sounds like they should be able to get some kind of interesting result from doing that.

Also, I think we may have already seen the soul-creation aspect of death magic in full use, I think Gardinuas may have used it when he created the demon circle of reincarnation for monster souls. It never goes into much detail on how he set that up, but he was not demonstrated to have death attribute charm like Van does so I doubt he had hundreds of millions of souls following him around from his own world when he came to Lamba, which begs the question of exactly where he got the souls to create the demon circle of reincarnation in the first place. There was never any sort of implication he stole souls from Rodcorte's system like Van does, so he must have supplied them himself.

EDIT: You know? If this theory proves true, it means that the DK was far more effective at creating souls than destroying them. He had to take the time to rip apart souls and then crush them like Van did his first time when he first learned the skill. He couldn't even do Van's tongue thing for an instant soul-break still in the body. However, he seems to have quite handily created several hundred million souls just off hand. Meanwhile, Van has yet to create even a single soul but he can easily destroy several tens of thousands of souls simply by firing his imaginary wave cannon at a military formation or through a city. I believe this is truly what would be called ironic.

Re-Edit, BTW, if anyone was wondering about the god of the Abrehemic religions, if you actually study the attributes he is described to be most concerned with, he would be a god of war, fire, death, and fertility. (Man, that last one seems a little out of place.) But yeah, Christianity in particular talks a LOT about souls and the destination of your soul after you die, which is an aspect of the gods of death in pantheonic religions. So, the most well spread religion on Earth is a religion that worships a perfect paragon of what a death god is supposed to look like. Pretty good example of how death =/= evil, and a pretty good model for Van to follow.

 

Well you can't have war and death if there are no people around, so you have to keep people fertile so that you have more war and death. It probably makes perfect sense to gods that care very little about human life and just see them as tools and sources of power like Rodcorte.

 

another way would be to say fertillity is what comes after does three, exampels are a Volcano(ash is good ground to grow stuff), humus/fertilizer(death leafs etc. dead organic things turn into humus or fertilizer) and for war, use germany. we have been through two lost wars and are now the most productive country in Europe.
it follows the principal of creation after destruction

 

I dont know(I only know what is in translated chapters, and even then I forgot some stuff) how exactly author set up magic to work in this story(different authors create different rules), like for example is lightning/electricity(or plasma in general) part of wind(or fire?) attribute, what about gravity is it part of earth attribute ?

The thing is that the moment author decided to use space or time as attributes he create situation where we are left wondering if there is MANY more attributes out there since there are many more natural principles, like for example which attribute controls kinetic energy ?, or what attribute is tied to quantum mechanics, or what about anti-matter(or complete destruction of matter when it gets in contact with anti-matter) ?

also since life and light are seperate attributes then there should be seperate death and darkness attributes, but currently it seems like darkness is part of death attribute....

 

here it is part of wind, kimberley the Thunderbolt Ghost has wind-attribute Nullification

Rod said something about that, when van got his third time. something along the lines of "thank you for discovering a new attribute", so there might be more. kinetic energy should be no-attribute magic, it has fly and telekinesis

??? where is darkness and death one??? please show me the chapter where that happens, i don't remember it.

 

Ok, so, 1st off if you have only read the translated chapters then I guess you are begging to be spoiled by being in the RAWs discussion section. That said, I will try and say this next point with a minimum on spoilers. It is pretty clearly established in a recent chapter, said flat out explicitly as a matter of fact, that darkness is part of the light attribute. Darkness is the absence of light, therefore it is light in the same way that fire magic can be used to freeze things by removing heat as is covered early on in the series when it is explaining the principle behind how Van is able to heal people with death magic.

EDIT: (Although, I DO see where the confusion can arise from beings Ylepion, the Alda-faction god who had Mikhile's "Divine Ice Spear" as his artifact, was a god of the water attribute whereas this explanation of how the elements work would imply that ice should be a sub-divinity of the fire attribute. Then again, I guess Van does pretty closely mimic the life attribute using the death attribute, so I guess one natural force can be under multiple areas of magic governing at the same time.)

Actually! Following this line, I think it gives us an answer to the issue raised before about how if there are time and space attributes, then what about various laws of physics and quantum physics? Well, the attributes, rather than having one attribute for each natural force, the attributes are actually umbrellas that encompass several natural forces at once. Therefore, Newtonian physics are probably governed by non-attribute magic, and quantum physics might be governed by space magic. Also, the quantum physics application of space magic could get some bleed-over, much like healing for death and light magic, by achieving some time manipulation using only space magic.

 

Somehow isn't it funny if Van break Botin and Peria seal, what will elf and drawf do? Expecialy if Peria send divine message to accept chaos and dark elf, and Botin send divine message to drawf and telling them that kijin and majin are step-brothers.

 

Well water attribute is control of liquid, isn't it also logical that they can make liquid hard

 

Golem Creation allows Van to create physical objects using only his mana. As long as he knows the normal structure of souls, he can probably create new souls right now, though it would probably be a bit different than creating physical golem materials. Also, I have no idea how much mana Van would need to spend to create a soul.

It's been mentioned that death attribute magic, if stretched to its conceptual limits, can perform feats similar to what life attribute magic can do. Also recall that Flame Jail Death, one of Van's more impressive spells, is not fire attribute magic.

Technically, as long as it is conceptually linked to death (and by extension, absence, chaos, rebirth, etc.), it should be possible through the death attribute. Therefore, darkness is covered by both the light and death attributes. That's probably the reason the turncoat gods were so vulnerable to Van's guidance.

 

"dark" is used few times in relation to death and undead, like for example advanced version of Death-Attribute Magic being Dark King Magic, or Guidance: Dark Path focusing on undead, I know that name of skills sound like weak evidence but I dont remember any case of skill that has wrong or misleading name.

actually people in this thread who read raws in the past told me its shadow that is part light while darkness seems to be part of death attribute, people told me that when I asked if oposite of light attribute exists, since oposite of all other attributes exists. Well now I am confused.

 

Well, I don't know what you were told before, but it was said fairly recently in the RAWs fairly specifically, and in a manner that is completely non-misinterpretable that darkness was a sub-attribute of light as it is the absence of light.

As has been said in this line of reasoning by a few people though, it seems to be quite possible for various sub-attributes such as healing to fit under two or more attributes at once, so it's possible that darkness was only part of the light attribute up until now because there was no death attribute which is where it should more properly belong.