Spoiler Latest Chapter Discussion Thread for Death Mage Raws

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by FussyBadger, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction. NNN member Nr.1.

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    Well he just didn't want his ability to known.
     
  2. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction. NNN member Nr.1.

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    I forgot the latest status of Zadiris, which Chapter contain Zadiris status?
     
  3. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction. NNN member Nr.1.

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    Thats actually true unless Parent from Vampire side have strong sunlight resistance.
     
  4. Culaio

    Culaio Well-Known Member

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    Well of course I know about those abilties, but they arent really unique to vampires, like claw being possesed by other beings like for example ghouls, same can be said about regeneartion and status resistance, only unique vampiric abilties van has are bloodsucking and sunlight resistance(which isnt really technically ability but simply lack of weakness vampires normally have), so that leaves van with only one unique vampire ability: bloodsucking and its upgraded versions, still I know that it doesnt change the fact that he got those abilities you guys mentioned from his vampiric side but the thing is that most of the ones that got upgraded to higher version werent upgraded as progress of his vampiric abilities but unrelated things, like demon king body parts.

    when I said gain more vampires abilities I meant other abilites vampires frequently posses, like transforamtion into animals(including multiple animals like scattering into bats or rats) or mist, other abiltiies vampires frequently vampires posses is hypnosis/mind control, illusions, blood and/or shadow/darkness manipulation, blood or shadow teleporation and others.

    Of course I realize that vampires in this novel dont seem to posses most of those abilities and also that van already posses and/or can recreate many if not all of this abilities so I know that van developing some new vampiric abilities are very unlikely but blood ruler job at least gives me some hope since (if I am not mistaken) its first vampire job accessible to van, the fact that van has blessing of dark gods,should open possibility of van gaining job/skills related to vampires of earth.
     
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  5. Efgbog

    Efgbog Well-Known Member

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    I think some of those abilities would come under magic, which Van doesn't possess, I know that shadow/darkness and possably illusions come under light magic. Don't think it's ever mentioned that Vampires have any mind control abilities.
     
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  6. Culaio

    Culaio Well-Known Member

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    Sadly vampires in this story arent really that special, I would say that they are among most boring version of vampires I ever seen in fiction, currently in story only role van vampire power has is to boost his stats by drinking blood, its disappointing how little importance van's vampire side has, its completly overshadowed by van's soul/spirit related abilities, death magic and demon king body parts. Actually vampires in general seem pretty boring in this story compared even to other species including ghouls. Ghouls at least seem to change sometimes when ranking up, like vigaro geting additional set of arms, Basdia tattoo's or Zadiris third eye/gem thing, vampires dont seem to change like that, of course van is dhampir and doesnt have ranks to either way even if vampires did change like that with ranks its not something possible for van.
     
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  7. Mesaphrom

    Mesaphrom Well-Known Member

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    The way I see it is that Vampire inherited more from Vida than from Zakkart, explaining why they are virtually immortal with a high regeneration ability (the original ones at least) and have high Vitality, in contrast Ghouls inherited more from Zakkart which may explain they more moster-like traits, abilities and notable changes in phisiology after evolving.

    Think of it like the Majin, the three types show various degree of the different gods they were born from with Vandals being more like Zantark, Succubi more like Vida and Diablos more like the Evil God.

    But, yeah, Vampires are not as interesting as the others races.

    I think he explained that since their bodies already became accostumed to not having limbs their souls were already adapted to that particular body shape so he couldn't just regenerate it. Later he does make their soul come out of the stumps, but it takes them months (and some Guidance) to actually be able to control the souls into arm shape and some more to control Van's 'prosthesis'.
     
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  8. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction. NNN member Nr.1.

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    Well Vampire is like dragon, and overuse race in novel.
     
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  9. Wannabe-shutin

    Wannabe-shutin Well-Known Member

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    That might have been the case with Simon, but the girls had just lost them.
    The reason Van had to pull out their souls is the fact that living beings can't have it outside of their bodies in most cases. They then had to train to get the skill for controlling their soul to use the prothesis, which was harder for Simon since he had been without an arm for such a long time that the part of the brain controlling it had deteriorated.

    Keeping that in mind I am not sure why he couldn't have regenerated the lost limbs aside from him wanting to experiment and check whether humans can learn skills of undead.
     
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  10. Culaio

    Culaio Well-Known Member

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    You are not wrong about this, but author still given them pretty big role in the story until recently, like some of van's enemies, some of van allies and part of van himself, so author should have made more effort to make vampires more interesting.
     
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  11. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    I think the author had two realistic choices here: either have only a few Vida races and develop them to the same detail as the ghouls or have many but keep them relatively simple. If all the Vida races got as much detail and uniqueness as the ghouls then it might well have felt like a gimmick and/or gotten rather boring. As a side thought, I wonder if we'll ever get an explanation for while the ghouls are particularly unique?

    So instead, the author decided to introduce a fair number of mostly conventional races (in terms of biology and abilities) but at least worked to give them some interesting background / current status / culture. So while the vampires seem fairly conventional in terms of biology and abillities, their society had a certain amount of interesting history that was slowly overturned as Van killed off the leaders and eventually the evil god who had corrupted them.
     
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  12. Nakakure

    Nakakure Zadiris Empress Faction. NNN member Nr.1.

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    He so instead see it from ability and organisme we can also saw it from History.
     
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  13. Culaio

    Culaio Well-Known Member

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    But why only focus on ghouls ? no one expects author to focus on all races in such detail, but vampires actually have among lowest amoung of focus lore/powers wise, we dont really know more about vampires then for example arachne or majin, of course I know that some vampires had big role in story as van's enemies but lore-wise they didnt had much focus.
    I do really like ghouls and ghoul characters, they are among my favorites but I find it weird that species that is part of the main character has so little focus.
    What confuses me even more is the fact that main character recreated or can recreate many of classic vampire abilities through his other abilties, like wings, shapeshifting, affecting mind(Mental Encroachment) and so on, why author didnt give him those abilities as part of his vampire abilities ?

    I also realized recently the fact that van not getting any vampire related jobs thanks to his blessing from dark gods is pretty big plothole, I mean blessing gives him access to jobs based on mythology/history from earth that have abilities similar to ones he has, which should make possible for him to get jobs along the lines of dracula or vlad something like that.
    Vampires have actually very extensive history/mythology on earth, many variations of vampires exist whats more vampires on earth have themes related to oposing god which fits van perfectly...
     
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  14. hillo315

    hillo315 Intact but Tactless

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    Ghouls in this series are quite different from how they are traditionally depicted, and they are among the first to show us what to expect of the physiology of Vida's races. Vampires in Lambda are more traditional, though with fewer fantastic elements, so vampires are way easier to describe and understand. Suffice to say, vampires did get all the focus they actually need.

    Well, there's the fact that Van befriended an entire society of ghouls near the beginning of the story. Also, he took a job that granted him the ability to administer venom the same way ghouls can, which makes little sense without the knowledge that ghouls are venomous.

    Van is a dhampir, not a full-blooded vampire. Ignoring the fact that Lambda vampires definitely do not have Mental Encroachment by default, automatically giving a dhampir complete vampire powers from the start is unwarranted. I just think it's cool that Van got those abilities anyway, by just earning them over time.
    Also, changing and materializing spirit form is a bit different from just shapeshifting the physical body at will. Without altering his spirit form, all Van can do is enlongate his tongue or use demon king fragments. Regrettably, I don't remember if Lambda vampires can shapeshift, but I do recall that Isla changed form when she was still alive, but that was more like an illusion or glamour. If memory serves me well, the closest to natural shapeshifting at will is the Chaos skill inherent in chaos elves. The skill is limited only by the scope of the user's self-image, so while complete body restructuring is generally quite difficult with the skill, skin tone is easily changed and adding a tail or some wings is not a big deal.

    That is an interesting point, but I don't think it's a plothole. Van cannot take jobs that someone else has already taken. I'm sure that most vampire jobs known to Lambda are present in the job histories of existing vampires. There is one such job Van can still take, which relates to the Bloodrule skill, a superior version of the Bloodsucking skill that is probably unique to Van. I'm not sure what conditions mythical vampire jobs need, so I don't know why Van can't take those. It's possible that those jobs aren't available simply because he isn't a vampire.

    In any case, Van clearly doesn't care about his vampire parentage as much as you do. Considering he doesn't really care about being a dhampir aside from longevity and a few useful skills, I don't expect him to actively pursue a vampire job specifically for enhanced vampire coolness.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  15. Culaio

    Culaio Well-Known Member

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    Author could have made vampires more unique too though, if you look at different mythologies you could see that pretty much every mythology has different variant of "vampire"-like monster.

    True but its author decision to do that, author could have as well made van meet some friendly vampires, in the end it was author decision to make ghouls so important while mostly ignoring vampires.

    You are right about that, but it is established that vampires power get strong from drinking blood so this does open possibility of van developing more vampiric powers after drinking enough blood. like I mention I do know vampires in this story dont posses those abilities but like I mention above its author decision to do so, author decided to make vampires in this story very generic. This makes me wonder about the fact that van recreated some of vampire abilities, did author want to give only van those abiltiies without giving them to other vampires ?

    I dont thing job system works across worlds, so it wouldnt make sense for vampires from this world to get jobs based on stuff from mythology from earth, only reason why van gets jobs based on stuff from earth is because of blessing, for vampire to get job like dracua or vlad vamprie would have to have same or similar blessing.
     
  16. sjmcc13

    sjmcc13 Well-Known Member

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    One thing I found amusing is that most races able to convert "humans" over can do so for either gender, but Ghouls are the can only convery women, and it seems like the more drastic of the appearance changes are limited to their males, with the chick getting modifications that resemble jewelry and body art.

    Maybe the conversion ability has something that partially stabilizes their appearances...
     
  17. kari-no-sugata

    kari-no-sugata Well-Known Member

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    Side note: hillo315's post above already covered a number of points I was going to say so this post is more in addition to that.

    I'd disagree with "among lowest amoung of focus lore/powers wise". If we include society as well then they're about equally detailed with the ghouls, perhaps even more detailed.


    We know even less about dark elves. The thing is, this isn't a vampire story or a dark elf story or a dhampier story but a death mage story - you could say that Van being a dhampier was more to make him even more of an outsider and to give him some enemies who would specifically hunt him from an early age. I actually like that the author put in a lot of detail into the society aspect of things and also how historical events directly influenced how things are in the present day. To me, this helps make them more real. I think this was better than giving them a complex or detailed "lore".

    To put it another way, I don't think a more detailed story would necessarily be a better story. Vampire society in Lambda is already detailed enough and those details directly influence the story in meaningful ways. It would only be worth adding additional "lore" if there is an actual pay-off in the story for it, otherwise it's just detail for detail's sake.


    It's probably worth remembering that Van's father was a fairly weak/ordinary rank 3 Subordinate Vampire apart from sunlight resistance. It would actually be less reasonable for him to have a whole load of vampire specific skills.

    In addition, part of the point for Van's start in Lambda is that he's inherently weak. If he had all these useful vampire skills from the start that would actually undermine the early plot.


    Well, either way Van still has to earn the appropriate proficiency for the jobs. Also, vampires are not generally worshipped or regarded as being gods (or have ever been).
     
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  18. Culaio

    Culaio Well-Known Member

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    Sorry its a little hard for me to explain, I do know that vampires did have role pretty important in the story until now, but thats not what I am talking about, what I mean is that culture and powers-wise there is more to ghouls then to vampires, same with arachne and majin, I do know there are races we know even less about then about vampires but vampires seem on lower end compared to some other races that have more complex culture, powers and physiology.

    No I didnt want van to have all vampire powers from start, that would be stupid and boring, but I want van's vampire powers to grow as story progresses.

    The thing is that van continues to drink blod, level up and awaken his bloodsucking skill and there is no progress toward more jobs blood ruler is first and only vampire related job that van got after awakening his bloodsucking skill twice.
    Shaitan, Pale Rider, Apollyon and Chi You arent gods and are still available to van. Also like I mention above there are many variants of vampires that do fit the bill, I mean lilith sometimes is viewed as first vampire since she supposedly drinked blood of babies. There is a lot of variants of vampires in folklore, some more spiritual then others.
     
  19. jemini

    jemini Well-Known Member

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    So far as the whole Vampiric abilities thing goes, I get the impression the author actually decided to go a rather interesting direction with this. He gave the Vampires a base set of abilities, which are essentially the abilities Van was born with minus the sunlight resistance. So, in other words, Super strength, Regeneration, Status resistance, and Blood Sucking. They also, unlike Van, have old-age immortality (as opposed to true unkillable immortality.)

    On top of these base abilities, Vampires can also occasionally possess additional powers, most of which seem to come from the traditional Vampire lore of earth. Flight being the most common, but not all of them can even do that. They do not all possess all the powers that Dracula had, it seems they can only possess a small number those additional powers, and someone who possesses even one of them is rare at that with those of higher Vampire nobility being more likely to possess some of these powers. For instance, Elenora had the vampiric charming gaze in the form of her "evil eye of charm." There are also abilities Dracula didn't have, such as Sunlight Resistance which Van's father had, or Bellmod's "offering" ability.

    I think the author likely did this because of the number of Vampires he expected to have in the series, there needed to be a way to differentiate one from another. So, instead of making them all carbon-copies of one another ability wise, he differentiated their abilities by removing powers and then adding back only a few to certain vampires. This author seems to prefer to focus on characterization, lore be damned. He's already proven this stance with how he portrays Ghouls. So, it really should be no surprise he's done something that serves character more than lore with Vampires as well.
     
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  20. jemini

    jemini Well-Known Member

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    There is a chance Van may get the entire Dracula power-set though. I should warn first that the Author has a habit of teasing at something being a possibility and then taking things down a path that is completely the direction the story seemed to be going anyway without servicing your wishes at all. The bizarre thing in this story is that the actual lack of wish fulfillment and having the story stay its course without shoe-horning something in is, in its own weird way, a plot twist in and of itself due to how many other isekai out there just pile on the wish fulfillment all over the place.

    That disclaimer out of the way, I will say that it is quite possible, the opportunity DOES exist. Van already gained the ability to turn into mist from the Sylphid ability, and while he does not have vampiric flight abilities he can fly every bit as well if not better using non-attribute magic. In addition to this, his Blood Ruler skill has been shown to give him the ability to absorb abilities from the people who's blood he drinks. It would not be at all implausible to see him gaining other vampiric abilities by drinking the blood of other vampires who possess those abilities, thus making him one of the first vampiric individuals, other than maybe the original True Ancestor who was birthed from Vida and Zaccart's reanimated corpse, to possess all of the unique vampiric abilities that the Author split off for character building purposes.
     
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