Spoiler Latest Chapter Discussion Thread for Death Mage Raws

So, this have nothing to do with the latest chapter, but I think it is something really interesting:

Chapter 66, end of volume 3:

“Mom, Messara told me that I can do a lot of things if I make contracts with the Evil God of Bone Fangs, the Evil God of Obscene Skin, the Evil God of Degenerate Flesh and the Evil God of Entrails,” said Vandalieu.

“Umm, Vandalieu? I think it might be dangerous to make contracts with gods like that.”

 

Ooh! Good catch! The author seems to love inserting characters we already forgot were mentioned. Van referred to those gods because he wanted to make a homunculus, right?

 

Nah, every soul-crushing/eating event, except the ones related to revenge against his mother's killers, were people/entities who had made their DEADLY hostility toward Van and/or his companions clear. In other words, made it clear that not only do they intend to kill him, but they will keep on trying to kill him if he were to let them live. The only thing to do with someone like that is to eliminate them. Van just happens to be a little better at eliminating the threats a little more thoroughly than most people.

 

The author didn't fully explain the naming I believe but I think the somewhat literal intended meaning of 界穿滅虚砲 would be "world piercing destruction nihility cannon". In chapter 203 Alda reckoned it could eat the souls of 100s of people at once.

In side chapter 42 there's this:

Ie 界穿 is short for 世界を穿つ (to pierce the world) and 滅 is in the sense of 滅ぼす (to destroy, to ruin).

In chapter 202 there's this:

So it seems 虚 is sense of 虚無 (nihility, nothingness).

So overall, a cannon shot of pure nothingness that destroys everything in its path.

 

Well, of course, I was calling it "imaginary cannon" because that's exactly how MTL ALWAYS translates it rather consistently (Imagry being the only other translation it ever comes up with.) I often wondered about that, but didn't really question it. At any rate, "void cannon" does sound quite a bit more appropriate for the short version (world piercing void cannon being a more English appropriate long version,) beings that it IS after all magic of the non/void elemental property.

At any rate, I didn't ask for a more appropriate translation than the shaky MTL version I was getting, but I will gladly accept it anyway.

 

Sorry for late response, was busy with life.

I do like idea of vampires possesing unique skills, but I am disappointed that some of the unique skills are skills that are generally viewed as advanced but widely available vampire abilties, like flight or charm, they are generally skills that all experianced vampires posses., unique vampire abilities are along the line of blood manipulation and so on.

While that does make me happy he gets more vampire like abilties what disappoints me is how he got those abilities, I know am speaking in confusing way, english isnt my first language so sorry for that, its not that I am asking for specific vampire abilties(even though it would be nice), what I am hoping for is van's vampire skill set to grow with time, lets look at other van's "skill sets" death magic leveled up as story progressed but also opened new options for van like golem creation, dead spirit magic,spirit/soul related abilities(spirit form, soul break/devour and so on), demon king(fragments) are another skill set, they not only strengthen van but also open new options for him, like Demon King Artillery Technique which van developed using demon king fragment abitlies and others. both death magic abilties and demon king abiltiies expanded(van gained more abilities related to them) as story progressed meanwhile vampiric abilities got leveled up and some were awakened(but some where awakened not as progression of vampire abilties but from other stuff, like for example jobs/demon king fragments, for example if I am not mistaken current level of van regeneration has nothing to do with vampire abilities), van vampiric skill set didnt expand as story progressed

If we look at van abilities as skill tree, death magic would be at bottom, from which golem creation, dead spirit magic, spirit/soul abilities and even demon king related abilities(if I am not mistaken van couldnt use demon king fragments to this level without death magic related abiltiies) would branch out, and those abilties would branch out into even more (lesser) abilties. Meanwhile van's vampire would be skill tree with only few branches that didnt expand further, thats what I am getting at, vampire skills do grow stronger but they dont expand further.

Explanation for vampire traits is pretty unique and I like it.

Strengthening by drinking blood is great and makes sense and even better is gaining abilies like that, but can all abilities be gained like that ? for example can abilties related to biology of being be gained like that ? would van gain weird skills of legion if he drinked its/theirs blood, or breath fire(or whatever element breath it has) if he drinked dragon blood ? what about skills that are more spirit related like magic ? I expect spirit skills would be unlikely but there are some beliefs related to relation between blood and soul , hellsing manga used this beliefs in the manga: "Blood is the currency of the Soul and the very essence of a creature. To drain someone of their blood is to bleed their soul out of them."
If van could at least gain skills related to biology of beings he drinks blood of then I would acknowledge it as something truly unique and interesting, since it would expand van's possibiltiies by a lot..

Oh then I misunderstood you, but that also means you misunderstood me, I dont have problem with van not getting any lambda vampire jobs, that makes sense with his curse, my problem is why van didnt get vampire jobs based on earth mythologies/history, with van's blessing of dark gods van should have got at least few vampire jobs from earth like dracula or vlad.

Well different races also developed their own cultures like vampires and have their own unique way of life so vampires in this aspect arent special.

Like I mentioned above its not problem of those skills growing stronger since they do indeed grow stronger and make van stronger, the problem is that his vampire skills dont expand further giving van more options. Van didnt gain a single vampire related ability as story progressed, only his original vampire abilities got strengthened/awakened.

 

i think you are missing the point in abilities/ skills, a lot of "Vampire skills" aren't unique to vampires as:

Drinking Blood- Mandurugo, Impundulu, Yara-Ma-Yha-Who, Kappa, Penanggalan, Chupacabra

Immortally - Ammit, Banshee, Demons, Spirits, Undead, Phoenix, Valkyrie

Mind/Charm - Baku, Carbuncle, Devil, Incubus / Succubus, Mermaid, Nightmare, Nue, Oni, Sandman, Satori

Eye Powers - Basilisk, Balor of the Evil Eye, Catoblepas, Cockatrice, Gorgon

Shapeshifters - Berserker, Skin-walker, Púca, Nagual, Wendigo, Odiyan, Merpeople, Chimaera, Were-Monsters (plus tons more)

Their are also a lot who turn into Elements as well such as mist or water.

My point is there is no 'Vampire skill' that is truly unique to the vampire, its more they have multiple skills which others also have and use, so saying he doesn't get the 'vampire skills' isn't really correct as he most of these skills already, alias one of the more unique things vampires have is there weakness'.

Also just to point out almost all these skills have been used by witches or wizards in lore as well, so its still not unique to only vampires being able to do it all either whilst making sense that Van gains them though Magic as he is the Death Mage.

 

Yep. Which makes it rather ironic that Alda himself wants to take his time, to take "slow and deliberate steps" I think the phrase was. But that's basically how he rolls in general, I think.

Yup, though there's always some oddballs who have their own twisted logic, so one or two Orbaume dukes siding with Amid might happen due to weird reasons. For example, the current Duke Hartner is rather nervous about Van, meaning he's more likely the believe the worst and more likely to be irrational or paranoid - eg deciding that using the Amid Empire to get rid of Van is safer than being forced to be on Van's side because then the Orbaume Kingdom in general would likely side with Van if anything came up between the two.

If a full war broke out right now, Van would be in a worse situation than in future since he's much more of an unknown but I suspect this'll change quite soon. For example, I believe there's an election coming up soon. Van might get involved to some degree and at a minimum it would give him a chance to "meet and greet" the other dukes (I assume that the election would involve all the dukes coming together in one place).

On a side note, it could be said that even the old Demon King was more creative than Alda! After all, he created things like dungeons, the rank system, the custom reincarnation system, some new races etc.

S class adventurers publicly supporting Van would be a big deal. Those in Orbaume might feel uncomfortable about Schneider but if Randolf (one of their own and a living legend) publicly backs Van then that's probably a bigger deal than individual dukes supporting Van - it would likely influence the opinion of many dukes as well.

I wonder what kind of "final act" the author is aiming for. As you say, it's been going well for Van lately and the more time he has the better the situation will become. Which doesn't make for a particularly dramatic or thrilling finale if it's obvious that Van should win easily. So what if the author wants to ramp up the tension etc? Are there some good ways he could achieve that?

I think the place to start would be Bellwood's personality and general abilities / approach. On the assumption that Alda won't kick off a real war without Bellwood then that means Bellwood would have a chance to influence the tactics of Alda's side, both military and political. Alda doesn't strike me as "CEO material" - he feels more like a middle manager at best. He's not good at politics or marketing and that sort of thing either. This is not to say that Bellwood is "CEO material" either but there's multiple hints that he's good at motivating others and rallying them around him (providing they're not too smart). Long story short, I would not be surprised to see Bellwood influence Alda's side to take a different approach politically.

Let's take a step back: why did the author decide to sideline Bellwood by having him be AWOL for the last 50,000 years? There's probably multiple reasons for this. I think one of them is so that more casual readers underestimate him (it makes him feel like less of a threat). I think the main one though is that unlike Alda, Bellwood would have been much more aggressive with dealing with Van from the start. Bellwood seems much more emotionally driven/motivated and I'm pretty sure he'd hate Van with a passion. Creating many undead? An abomination. Creating new races? New technology? New food? Diabolical. I'm guessing of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Bellwood felt that Alda had been too slow, too cautious and too optimistic in dealing with Van - just like what we've been saying. In other words, my current best guess is that if Bellwood had been around since the start then he'd have responded much sooner to Van and taken much more decisive action in some form - for example, at the point in the story when Alda first found out about Van it might well have been practical to send in a bunch of demi-gods to assassinate him, even in Talosheim.

But Bellwood wasn't around since the start and will instead have to deal with the situation he finds himself in upon awakening. It might be too late for him the change the immediate military situation much but he could influence the political situation on the ground quite a bit, potentially. That could lead to a military advantage. In other words, once Bellwood is around I wouldn't expect "more of the same" from Alda's side.

He should be able to do something meaningful at least - after all, he's still Bellwood, the mythical hero who saved the world from the Demon King. He has huge name value and Alda has the incumbency advantage and they could use that. Previously I suggested that the way things were going that it felt like Alda was going to instruct the Amid Empire to attack Van and they in turn would make demands of the Orbaume Kingdom. Politically that's somewhat self-defeating though since those two countries are basically enemies. The last thing anyone in the Orbaume Kingdom wants to do is bow to the demands of the Amid Empire. It does feel like the sort of mistake Alda would make. But would Bellwood make the same mistake? I've no real idea but there are other options. To take a dramatic and extreme one - gather all the demi-gods on Alda's side and give them an announcement to make in turn to all the major human cities on the continent. Alda is considered the main power in the whole world and if he and the hero/champion Bellwood basically make a very clear joint statement denouncing "Demon King Vandalieu" to the entire world then that would have a major impact on the Orbaume Kingdom at least, unless Van had managed to Guide a large chunk of the population by then which seems unlikely.

I've no idea if something like that will happen but it's possible and it would be dramatic and raise the tension through the roof. If Alda/Bellwood did do such a thing it would likely infuriate those on Vida/Van's side - it would unite them strongly. It might also trigger Nineroad to defect - I suspect she doesn't agree with Bellwood that much any more and we know that she doesn't like the idea of the gods becoming too interventionist. It's not impossible that doing such an announcement could be a short term win for Alda/Bellwood but not a long term one. There might be better options with fewer downsides.

 

of course I know that, and I dont have problem with that. many of van skills that he developed from his death skills werent unique, for example crafting skills(from creating stuff with his magic, golems) that got later merged. what I am getting at the whole time is the very fact that van didnt gain/develop new skills based on his vampiric half, its not about specific skills.

 

I'm really sorry but i don't understand what you mean by van didn't gain or develop new skills based on his vampiric half. He learnt how to fight with his claws because that is how his father use to fight, so he has gained at least one skill based on his vampiric half. Van has most of the skills vampires use in lore, he might not have set out with this in mind but he can still do them, the same can be said for the dark elf side as they use spirit magic and van has the modified version of this, dead spirit magic, and he hasn't tried to learn how to use the bow like his mother did.

What skills would you like Van to gain or develop based on the vampiric half? or is it you want him to actively attempt to learn these skills because he is half vampire?

 

While I agree with you, I want to point out that due to the current state of the world, Belly can't just go and fight. While priest guy was still alive, Alda comments how they need more gods to manage the elements and how he wished for Belly to be there to decide what to do, even now Alda is not making killing Van a priority, taking a more responsive approache to him, so even is Belly is there it may not escalate to all out war immediately, maybe taking a year or two to really go all out.

 

I have a question for everyone here. I have recently been re-watching a classic anime by the name of Ranma 1/2, which is famous enough that a lot of you are likely aware of it. While doing so, I was struck by an interesting thought that Van would actually fit right into this world full of really quirky characters, the only real miss-matched element being how tremendously OP he is. However, being told mostly from Ranma's perspective would level out even that detriment.

That in mind, I decided to actually start writing a crossover fan-fiction on that subject exactly, the premise being that Sam has developed the ability to breech the world barrier and thus travel between worlds. It is set after the final confrontation between Van and Alda and at a point where the dust is all settled, and Van essentially decides to take a vacation on Earth. So far so good, so I decided to start off from Van's POV showing how he first arrives at Ranma's version of Earth, which is supposed to be a different version of earth from the one linked to Lamba and Origin which Sam winds up traveling to by mistake having intended to go to the Earth that Van was from.

That said, I had a lot of fun and found it surprisingly easy to write for the characters from Van's crew since I feel I know them all so well. However, I hit a slight snag with a certain issue. I have tried to limit the number of characters coming along as much as possible, and while I was able to find a justification to keep Kannako, Dogue, and Malissa in Talosheim, my portrayal of Kannako wound up asking for a souvanier and Van asked for a specific item. (I write in a very character driven way, and I just could not see that exchange NOT happening.) So, that said, I need some ideas on what Kannako (the one with the Venus power FYI) would ask for as a specific souvanier.

(Keep in mind, it has been over 30 years now since they all lived on Earth, and she is perfectly aware of this.)

Of course, I plan to share a link as soon as I finish and post the 1st chapter. (will contain spoilers, so please don't share with the other thread.)

EDIT: Also, the cast going so far is Sam, Rita (Haposai is totally going to try to steal her top at some point), Saria, Gufadgarn, Van himself (of course,) and somehow even though I hadn't planned on it Luciliano managed to sneak himself in. It just struck me as I was writing that he was also quirky enough to fit the Ranma universe.

 

Hmmmm, Musical Intrument Performance skill + sound based skills+ guidance + encroachment = A WAR SONG FOR THE DEATH GOD!

 

OMNOMNOM

I just envisioned a cero from Bleach.

I can't wait for circumstances to reveal Van as an adorkable Demon King to everybody present. All the dukes would think "What the duck do we do now?"

By that, I assume you mean Bellwood will convince Alda to abandon all tact and human decency.

 

I keep seen Van doing this:



or this (skip to 1:03):

"Worship him"

 

For some time now I think it's time for Art Guide to appear on Vandalieu's list of jobs, after all he does paintings, sculptures and now plays musical instruments, also giving support and practicing art.

In my opinion, the increased level of "guide" skills was caused by the massive number of people guided on Kanako's show, being around maybe thousands at a time, not from Botin herself (I'm not saying she did not was "attracted" by the Vandalieu, but that the large number of people was the deciding factor).

 

Previously I said that while Bellwood's revival would probably signal "the beginning of the end" it might take an arc or more for the real war to kick off.

For wars in general, it's not like they happen when both sides are fully prepared and ready for them. At the moment, time benefits Van more than Alda. In other words, the longer Alda waits the more likely he is to lose. So he either has to reverse that trend or start the war while he still has a chance of victory.

I agree that Alda is constrained by managing the world. When we see his POV, while there are some irrational things, he mostly seems quite rational. However, that doesn't mean that his answers/solutions are optimal. It could be said that his original plan to beat Van was indirect - to guide the people on the ground to do it, allowing the gods on his side to focus on their main job (maintaining the world). Kinda like a "bean counter" deciding to outsource a project for cost/efficiency reasons. However, despite being about the first to refer to Van as a new Demon King, Alda still expected Van to grow within the bounds of "common sense" - this is an example of Alda being rational but not necessarily optimal. He didn't deny reality about what Van was doing when he first noticed him and correctly identified Van's skills/abilities as being similar to the original Demon King, yet despite Van clearly being unconventional in skills Alda still expected Van to have a normal rate of growth. In other words, he bet on an optimistic view of the future. It could be said that he's done this enough times with Van that it's no longer rational.

 

Though his first reaction to Van being "I must kill him" was not rational.
He assumes Van is or will be just like the demon king based on evidence from 2 fights were Van was attacked by Adla's side. He just sees Van's scary abilities and declares him an enemy without asking why Van did what he did, or investigating if piece was a chance, though piece would require Adla admitting he has been wrong for milenia, and is responsible for millions of innocent deaths.

Adla is not completely insane, but he has been acting against the better interests of his world and siblings for milenia. How he goes about things is not that bad in most cases, but why he is doing things and what he wants to accomplish are normally completely out of rationality. His first priority should have been the revival of his brethren so they could help him maintain the world, but that would likely require more people worshiping them, which would require more people. Instead his policies act against their revival, since the others are basically only getting lip service while he demands everyone worships him and his toadies. He should have been trying to purify and restore the fire god, but left him in banishment.

 

Alda isn't or wasn't aware that Vida removed his growth limit, even Rodcorte as far as I know wasn't aware of this, as Van fell between the cracks of the system and Vida moved him into hers.
Alda as a God of Law thinks in the way of the world Laws he manages, so not thinking that the limiter was removed is reasonable as by the laws he maintains it would be impossible without a gods interference.
So whilst Vida did help Van, Alda who isn't aware of what the other Gods are doing and thinking they are still sleeping or sealed, wouldn't automatically think that they would help Van before he was even born and now that Van has grown to strong to just attack without thought he has no choice but to wait and react as the only ones who can fight on the ground against Van are the S ranks who still don't stand much chance and numbers don't mean much when you can send poison and disease on the wind and have a army of rank 10's and above which have jobs as well.
his only option is to send a mess amount of gods to fight him but the risks out way the reward. Alda isn't Stupid he knows that fighting Van means some Gods are going down for a long time and with the management of the world being paramount to him it is unlikely he will risk losing to many Gods, but if sends them in small groups it will just power Van up more.
Whilst Alda didn't take action right way when Van moved to Talos, at the time his thought process is reasonable as everyone thought the same thing, Van will wait 10 years and build power, because they weren't aware of the speed of his growth as it goes against the laws of the world. Also don't forget information on Van was close to impossible to get early on as he was with Vida's races and then started to guide others, so they have to take man power to actively watch Van where ever he goes to learn about him which has also back fired on them.
I think the only move Alda really has is to go himself and attack Van which i believe he can't do and wouldn't be a smart move as he is the only main god (so far) who has his view so if he leaves then the divine realm the other 3 main gods can jump in and usurp him, or fight him with Van.

 

why would it be normal to think that van doesn't grow within the bounds of commen sense? just because he has some strange skills doesn't mean it has any influence on his growth. assuming the worst possibility that is as unlikely as the best possibility is not something you normaly do. we know that van defys logic but alda has no reason to assume that, as he has no info no him and you won't last if you assume that every anomaly defys logic.

within his rules alda has been acting perfectly rational. most of vidas races are an extension of the DK army, there for vida, who created them, is crazy. at the moment they don't have enough strengh to be much of a thread, so they can be left to the peoble to deal with, the management of the world is more importand, which has been neglected during the war, i can help the others ones those two points are dealt with(we don't know how much damage the negligence of the management of the world has caused and how bad that damage is). those are his thoughts i think, as for trying to purify and restore the fire god, have we ever heard of it beeing possible to split gods that fused together?