Discussion Let's talk about all the trashy FL Protagonist novels

Discussion in 'Novel Discussion' started by herosaver, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. herosaver

    herosaver Active Member

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    Like the Abandon Empress, Heavenly Divine Doctor: Abandoned Concubine, etc.

    Like a call out to all these authors, why do you seriously write such a shitty plot for these female leads? Like they literally got betrayed, abused, raped, and eventually killed by the ML in the first life yet when they are given a second life YOU make them end up with the ML that killed them in the first life? Like is the ML the only guy on the planet or something that the FL can choose?

    Also enough with the lame justification that 'Oh he wasn't in the right mind.' or "Oh, he made a mistake in her identity. He thought she was a fake blah blah" Like seriously ... these excuses are just disgusting.

    If these excuses fly, damn let's just free all these rapist and murders since it seems like anyone can just say 'I'm sorry I raped and killed you because I wasn't in the right mind. Now forgive me and lets fall in love okay?'

    I can't stand such trashy plot, authors, and MC who don't learn their lesson. Honestly they DON'T deserve a second chance to rebirth. They should've just stay dead and give someone who would actually use their second chance to change their live.

    Anyways, let the fire begin. What are your thoughts on these type of plot novels everyone?
     
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  2. StressedByTheBooks

    StressedByTheBooks Well-Known Member

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    Come to think of it your right I also can't stand this kind of novels I mean the writing is good but the plot is a complete waste idk why this kind of novels became popular.
     
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  3. Lokum

    Lokum Forum Member Banned

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    The intention is to add drama and build up the conflict before arriving towards the climax of the romantic (sub)plot, that is, the moment when FL recognizes her feelings towards ML.

    The author wants to make it challenging for the Female Lead to accept her feelings, as that will add more "depth" to her - "look, she doesn't fall for him right away, she has emotional second-guessings, she's like you! "

    It makes the relationship dynamics more colorful, if a character has a major setback in front of them, which they must overcome to reach the Happy Ending.
    Also, to showcase character growth, there must exist a difference between the Point A and Point B - when the FL and ML meet and when they fall in love. The steeper the hill leading to the HE, the more emotionally invested the reader gets. Or is supposed to get.


    The idea is to make the character struggle. And the reader is also meant to struggle with them, and root for the characters.

    'Will she fall for him? Ah, but how can she if he killed her? Ah, but how can she not, if he's so good to her now?'

    ------------------------
    Because thanks to the previous life when FL got treated so badly, it is more shocking and mind-blowing when ML finally treats her like a proper human being in this life.

    The ML smiled at the FL. <---Classic. Bland. Normal

    The ML smiled at the FL, despite the fact that he never did that in the previous life. How amazing! She never saw his smile. His sword-like brows lowered, and softened his sharp features. Her heart raced looking at his phoenix eyes, that were now turned into two crescent moons. <--- How touching. She now realizes the full value of that smile. And so does the reader.

    Now, the bar is much lower for the ML. If in her previous life, FL wanted a guy who'd treat her right, now she's fine with a guy who'll treat her ok, because she knows that in the first place, she was actually supposed to get killed by him.
    ------------------------
    Finally, it's supposed to be difficult for her to forgive the ML. But, look, her feelings are so strong, isn't it just wonderful that they run so deep that they washed over the sea of hate in her heart? Doesn't it amaze you how benevolent FL is? Surely, in the beginning of her 2nd life she hated him, and would never fall for him. But now, she's in love. Bam! "CHARACTER GROWTH!!" Shouts the author and falls of their swirly chair, all exited.
     
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  4. Lokum

    Lokum Forum Member Banned

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    And sure, the idea of a character being torn between two choices is actually very satisfying. It's fun to read. When it is properly executed.

    But everything can be fun to read if it's properly executed. And that's not the case with most of the novels.



    The first novel you read that has this tope will actually seem decent and original. But people are quick to hop on the drama train, and you have more and more novels like these appearing. Once you read several of such novels, you stop struggling and rooting for the character, because you already know that FL will end up with ML. You've seen it in other novels.
    That, or she will settle for the second ML, who's just you random guy, pushed into the story line to contrast the original ML. He'll likely to have the opposite personality to original ML. Ex: Original ML is a cool-guy-type, well this one is actually a soft and likes to smile.

    If you remove the original ML it won't make sense why she's falling for this 2nd vanilla dude, but it's ok. everything is ok as long as she's not with original ML. It can be the other way around, and she will fall for a jerk 2nd lead instead, and will let go of the soft, but actually two-faced calculating Original ML.
     
  5. fireflying

    fireflying Lost Boy

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    I hate the plots where the stone-faced, lowkey psychopath ML gets with the bland fragile idiotic FL. Also, in these plots the characters are usually so cliché and 2D reading them is just a step up from what it feels like reading an instruction manual; menial and boring.

    I haven't read the others you listed, but I enjoyed Abandoned Empress all the way up to where I found out the bastard was endgame. Tia's a strong and good FL, I don't know why the hell she would pick him, so I'm still going to continue reading up, but just because I love Carsein
     
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  6. Lokum

    Lokum Forum Member Banned

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    As for the rape and murder parts, well. You're writing. You need something to move a plot. You turn to your box that contains all the socio-cultural issues, dipped in the gloom of the present world, and those are the ones you see.

    It's easy to say : and he forced himself on her. Or: and he slit her throat.
    But who will actually deal with the aftermath?

    That's why you will see a lot of serious problems being dismissed just like that.
    And I can't exactly blame the author: They write, and the readers read. Every content will find its reader, and most came for entertainment, and not for a deep plot that will make you question your own life .へ‿(ツ)‿ㄏ

    Just several days ago, there was a post by @CZ2128D, discussing the morality of portraying suicide in entertainment novels , I was reminded of that as I read your post.
     
  7. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    I hate when this happens in the book I'm reading. It's not so much that the story concept is inherently bad, but more because the male love interest is supposed some sort of amazing catch, and the characters just don't tend to turn out that way. If we're lucky, said love interest is just uninteresting and boring to read, and if we're unlucky, that love interest is bad enough to wreck the entire book. To date, I've never seen this pulled off properly so I avoid such books like the plague.

    I get what the point of all of this. But as far as I'm concerned it takes a lot of good writing skill and good writing instincts to properly pull it off. And when an author falls short, this failure tends to ruin the book altogether. And this is what I find happens a lot. The fact of the matter is that the best writers don't really try to do this to begin with because their writing goals tend to be in a different direction. So what's left is weak writers getting in over their heads for goals that aren't even that worthwhile to begin with.
     
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  8. Lokum

    Lokum Forum Member Banned

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. OurPrinceNiki

    OurPrinceNiki Well-Known Member

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    I think those authors does that cause it is like a feminist movement...??? In today's era most of the "weak" women are mistreated especially in some of the asian countries (Japan, China, Korea...) Women are still seen as weak people so these authors wants to portray this happenings in the book. If those victims were to read this, they will be encouraged to be strong as if they are reborn... Honestly, this type of novels are famous because most of the readers felt connection like that and hope for a happy ending.
     
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  10. Lokum

    Lokum Forum Member Banned

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    I get where you're coming from, but i don't think this is the case here.

    The feminist movement would suit the novels where MC is reborn and gets badass and too over powered.

    The OP was asking about the trope where the character who was mistreated, gets reborn and still gets back together with the same damn person who mistreated them :/

    So here, it's not about the feminist movement cause the character doesn't get stronger (thus there's no female empowerment). This thread is more about wish-fulfillment. You want to see the bad person who mistreated you - succumb to your charms, and fall for you. So, basically, you're supposed to self-insert and derive satisfaction from conquering a person who bullied you.



    So, not female-empowerment-trope, but more like a general trope of conquering a target.
     
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  11. OurPrinceNiki

    OurPrinceNiki Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about why authors wrote those, as a theme most of the time. This theme is like the trend theme even if it is repeated over and over.
    Also the thread title is 'let's talk about those trashy FL', so it is not wrong to say an OPINION about
    why themes like were always written over and over.
    They already discussed about them and no has written why most of the novels are themed like that so I just stated my opinion.
     
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  12. Lokum

    Lokum Forum Member Banned

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    Ya know what, yer right too actually.

    also, sry for underlining all those lines - that's not to scream at you, but to stress the words

    @OurPrinceNiki please accept a candy cane as my apology

    i srsly need to go to sleep, as i'm slowly turning into @Sleep-deprived-enthusiast


    T-T
     
  13. ATrueStory

    ATrueStory Villainesses, Historical Shit, Noble Circuses

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    I disagree. The reason why the FL is archetypally portrayed as weak is that the context demands it. Usually, these stories are set in a medieval period where women have little to no importance to society as long as they got married and bear children. In our modern view, that's backward. In the view of those times, it's normal. Sure, the Asian countries are still considered to have backward standards but that is changing. If these FLs were situated in modern-day Tokyo, I expect that the work will reflect the current lifestyle of an FL. If you're going for a setting before the 21st century, I expect frilly dresses, courtly manners, and tea dates rather than sparring sessions.

    in my opinion, some readers who look for romance in these work want the courtly and gentleman guys of the past. But of course, that doesn't exist in guys today.


    Am not the authority on the subject, but isn't it a facet of feminism is about the choice?
    Link: https://femmagazine.com/feminism-101-what-is-choice-feminism/

    So, okay, In one's opinion the FLs mentioned were trashy coz there weren't empowered enough or they didn't stick to the man. That's valid.
    But choice feminism exists and in that view, one can't judge these FLs as not feminist just because they didn't choose empowerment.
    A friend explains like in a woman choosing to be a SAHM or a career woman. Both are valid choices and as long as the woman in the picture is happy (which perspective counts the most) then it's not an issue?
    Sure, empowerment matters but choice is also important. For me, it goes back to what people or in case, deemed as the best choice for them. Of course, there will people who will say, that this scenario is damaging coz it won't encourage other girls who read the mahwha to be more equal or be adopted many traits like conquering.

    For me as the writer, I don't know if it is my job to do that. My job is to tell a story in the way I or my publisher see fit. I don't remember signing up as an influence or a role model. If you as a reader don't like my treatment of the FL or deem it trashy, sure. I can accept that. But in the end, it's my FL. I can kill her in any way I want or make her a goddess in the most unlogical way. Anyway, I am not speaking for the authors of the works mentioned because I would be presuming too much. But I think my perspective could be of help.
    TLDR. I do not think webtoons or novels or the characters within are a great way to translate feminism or other ideals to follow. Its a medium for entertainment. Either the writer is committed to the ideals and is reflective on the work or it's just pandering to get more sales.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
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  14. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that either of these theories are particularly true. What's going on is that the authors of this kind of book are catering to a particular fetish and they're not particularly interested in anything outside of that. I can't see anything in this kind of book that would feminism is much of a concern; either as a pro or as a con. And the idea that this behavior is dictated by the context of the story doesn't make much sense either - because these writers generally don't care about the settings of their story.
     
  15. sherry90

    sherry90 Well-Known Member

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    I dislike those kind of novel too and thankfully i have been able to avoid them thanks to review....
     
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  16. Pakhi

    Pakhi Well-Known Member

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    Man.. I want to like your comment thousands timesblobmelt_thumbs.. I hate this type of novel.. I want to burn this type of novel.. after reading so much shitty novel and their Male lead.. My exapections of ml &fl became very low.. Now I just read spoiler first and ignore this type of novel.. :blobsmile:
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
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  17. herosaver

    herosaver Active Member

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    Hey everyone, thanks for your comments. I enjoyed all your thoughts. Honestly, I am just frustrated with these kind of plot lines. While I understand that author is trying to protray drama and that love needs to overcome big barriers (and what is a bigger barrier than getting back together with the man that raped you, killed off your family members, and then killed you and your unborn child). I mean if the female lead is able to forgive him for ALL of that, then I guess that is true love??? Cause LOVE HEALS EVERYTHING???

    My main issue is that if this is what authors are trying to achieve, I find that I have never read anything that made me forgive the male lead in the same way that the female lead did. I mean, the way the author JUSTIFIES the male lead's action in their first life is "Oh, I was drugged" or "Of, I misunderstood her. I was manipulated to see her as bad" or other such thing. I mean, seriously ... does this really justifies any of his actions? I mean, okay, I can understand forgiving the male lead, BUT BUT why does the FL HAVE to choose the male lead? I mean, sure forgive him because it is a new life, he isn't techincally the same guy as first life, but does that mean you HAVE to MARRY him AGAIN? That's like getting rape and killed by adolf hitler and then in a second life choosing to marry hitler because 'He isn't the same guy you know. Even though the world and setting and time period is the EXACT same.' How can you stand LOVING someone who does so much pain and ultimately raped and killed you in the end? I mean, in your second life you still have your memories from your first life. Everytime you make love, won't you remember the past first life when he raped you? when you have a child, won't you remember the pain and fear of the first life that he killed you both (even if he is different in this life)?

    I mean, it is just TOO MUCH BAGGAGE!!!! Forgive him, sure go ahead (though I wouldn't), BUT to MARRY HIM AGAIN? NOOOOOOO!! There is more fishes in the sea MAM! NEWS FLASH, but ML IS NOT THE ONLY GOOD LOOKING AND KIND MAN IN THE WOLRD!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  18. Lokum

    Lokum Forum Member Banned

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    cause FL is written as a flat-character
    @herosaver , those tropes are irksome, and I feel you
    *pats the shoulder*
    Here, go read DMT, you'll have fun - a breather from other novels
     
  19. herosaver

    herosaver Active Member

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    Also back to the author trying to justify the male lead's first life action, I've never seen it done well. At most it is something along the lines of ... "After killing her, male lead realized he was drugged/manipulated/etc. and so he was so sad. He was so very very very sad. So sad so he used his own life to give her a second chance ..."

    Like ... is that suppose to make me TOTALLY FORGIVE the male lead? (Cool, male lead RAPED, ABUSED, and KILLED female lead BUT then he regretted it and so to make up for it. He gave up his life for her to have a second chance. We back to square one right? He raped, abuse, and killed you but ultimately he sacrificed himself to give you a second life so no hurt or foul right? Trama doesn't exist right? Your memories of your first life doesn't exist right? Even if they exist they don't pain you right? I mean, the man gave up with life to give you a second chance, just forgive him for raping you, abusing you, and killing you in that life. I mean, you have this second life because of him so you OWE him right? It doesn't matter that you died in the first place because of him cause he let you lived again, be grateful and forgive him alright?)

    Honestly, I feel that even if this story is setting the characters in certain time periods, as a current reader, I feel that it is just slowly brainwashing young women and men to normalize being hurt and forgiving men's action. I mean, seriously in the end, I feel that these plots really are just "boys will be boys. At least he did something and apologize right?"

    (p.s I'm a guy.)
     
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  20. Lokum

    Lokum Forum Member Banned

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    Nah, I don't think that's the "boys will be boys. At least he did something and apologize right?" thing. Rather it's to do with the fact that angst is cashmoney
     
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