Discussion Magic systems for authors

You don't necessarily need a magic system with clearly defined rules, try looking into whether a soft magic system can be applied instead.

 

when you mentioned a system, i thought you meant the process of magic, not types of magic.

Contract: Mana is a living being that holds certain affinities to different kinds of people. In order to invoke the magic, the caster must offer a suitable reward with either internalized energy, a prayer, a stanza of a poem, etc. Also, they could use both methods in order to cast stronger magic. in this case, the caster's control and 'acting' ability is prominent, as well as the ability to maintain a clear image of what the caster wants performed. there is also the chance that certain casters appear more favorable to mana, like a royal family or race.

Control: The casters must have immense mental capacity in order to channel the mana, a force of nature like air. in this case, practically anyone can use magic if they have the aptitude for it. similar to qi and cultivation, as this system could lead to a lot of unique styles.

Chosen: Magic is an object or entity that selects users. they have specific abilities and the casters must learn how to master this power, even when it can be bogged down by restrictive rules. the easiest example would be One Piece with the Devil Fruits mixed with Black Clover.

there are others in mind, but this has already taken too long.

 

If i had to create magic system, it would be something along the line of this:

Magic is bad and has through history been endowed with traits similar to past plagues.

Magic is similar to radiation, as long time exposure to it will inevitably cause the body to deteriorate and in worst case lead to death at a young age. The mortality rate for those that channel mana through their bodies are higher than any other profession and people therefore avoid it.

The magic system would be soft and my justification for that would be that as a result of the high mortality rate not many mages survived the long time exposure and so failed to pass on their knowledge. Those that succeed in passing on whatever they learned were generally part of an academy for magic or some other organization and they are therefore the only places to go if you have the disease known as magic.

The very act of channeling magic through your body and manifesting a fireball would cause the deteriorating effect of magic to increase and not all mages are capable of channeling the same amount. Those endowed with bodies able to channel a lot of mana, are generally those that die quite early and they are also those that, historically, has been the strongest and possessed the most knowledge.

That is it.
Magic doesn't necessarily need to be something simple turned complex, it can also be something complex turned simple. You don't necessarily need to explain what your magic system is like, nor do you need to clearly state the merits and demerits of its use, sometime the fun lies in the mystery and the way that mystery is slowed solved.

 

Not really, I have most spells of D&D 3.5 memorized already, so I sort of skipped looking at the page because I figured it wouldn't be much different even if it was about D&D 5.0... >.>

But well, that definition from D&D is about as generic as it can be (at least the quoted one, I didn't check the link), so... It wouldn't be much different from what any author would make on a whim?

 

I agree, but what I'm saying is, there is no limitation on the systems you create, I mean what proof can I give to say that is impossible? because it's grounded in magic logic which isn't based on anything real, its pure imagination. I have to add a point based on reality, you made a comment that everything is based on reality, but before it became reality someone decided to investigate and prove it right? while others are willing to rely on faith, like for example, lets take God, some people think the concept of an all-powerful being that can do anything and everything is a myth, fabrication, lies, or outright deny such existence while others believe it to be true real regardless of proof... so for them its totally real that this world and the universe around us is Gods creation. Flat-earthers as another example, despite all the proof given they choose to believe in something else, they have a completely different set of facts that others think is crazy talk, but to them, it's perfectly logical and believable, and based on facts. (Fake news! the world is a triangle!)

You can build it any way you want, if you want limitations then have at it, if you don't then don't. There's no need to justify anything with a magic system unless you want too. One's webtoon now manga Onepunch man creates a world of super-powered villains and heroes and places it in a system of ranks based on whatever BS they decide these heroes are placed in, everyone is a parody of many shounen type mangas, they're always projected as being people who triumph over all odds through hard work and growth, having spurts of strength that goes up and up, as they defeat each challenge confronting various trials as they do so, villains match their hero counterparts appropriately.

This part of Shounan manga is represented in Onepunchman, Saitama the OP MC of this tale is an exception to that rule, he is stronger than whoever comes at him, if it was the entire marvel universe he will pwn them all, because hes written as a character that is bland even boring but OP and beats everyone because thats how he is written, you would think it would get old and boring, and yet its compelling and you cant stop reading the damn thing because you want to see the end result even though it will always be the same, its from the side characters that you get the rest of what that story needs to contrast Saitamas flat character. With Saitama we have yet to see his limits.

Onepunchman is probably one of the best examples of anything goes that I was trying to describe? but as I've said before, you do what you want, because magic has no limitations because its based on your imagination and willingness to create as you will. You should read release that witch, the MC combines science with magic, its good there's like 900 plus chapters already translated.

 

Hmmmmm... Well, I don't deny that it must have an absurd amount of lore, but... Well, you'd need to dedicate a huge amount of time in actually researching D&D lore (unless you already know it because you're a lot into D&D), and you would need to make some reasonable changes to make it go from "plagiarized from D&D" to "based on D&D", so... It seems like way too much of a hassle? I mean, coming up with a simple and understandable magic system only takes a few minutes and should be no problem for as long as you don't have any intention of delving into the intricacies of magic.

Besides, copying lore from others is boring in general... Copying their system seems like a totally fair choice, but copying their lore is just plain boring... And their system seems pretty generic, so... Not much use in doing that?

 

Nah, it does need to make sense, it just doesn't need to be well-developed if that is not your focus on the novel.

If I make a fantasy romance in a swords and magic setting, there is obviously going to be magic in it, but it's just not the focus of my novel, so the magic system doesn't need to be carefully developed, it just needs to make sense and be coherent.

If I'm going to make a fight focused novel that has magic at its crux though, then I need a carefully developed magical system to go with it.

It all depends on the focus of the novel, I don't see why a fluffy Slice of Life or a Romance needs a carefully planned magical system when it's barely going to get any screen time.

Trying to explain a super complex and very deep magic system in the middle of a romance would just add a lot of pointless stuff that won't be used anywhere and will just fill the word count... I could do that if I were to write for Qidian and receive per chapter, but that's not my aspiration, so I'd rather remove the pointless stuff from my novels. And a very well-developed magic system that I'm not going to use is completely pointless.

 

Hmmmmmm... I thought it was just a thread to brainstorm a bit about magic systems in general... I mean, even if you're going to make a novel that doesn't focus on the magic, you still need some magic system, and if you don't want people calling you out on it later, you need to put at least a bit of thought on your system.

It just... Doesn't need to be complex, it can be kinda vague and broad with a few guidelines and it should be enough to work with.

So... I guess we just didn't look at the thread's topic in the same way?


Otoh, I don't think all aspects of the novel need to receive a fair amount of work when making a novel, as long as you don't put relevant parts as secondary, you should be fine.

As in, putting no work on harem members is generally a bad idea that will give you plenty of complaints, the readers want properly developed harem members regardless of how much focus you intended to give them from the start.

Magic though? I think that keeping it coherent is generally enough for most people for as long as your novel's focus doesn't shift to it too much... I do agree that in general it's better to not have something unless you intend to make it properly (harem members are an excellent example of that), but I think some things don't need careful development on them and can only have some more passing mentions... Uhn... For example...

If at some point an old elder talks about an ancient myth to the MC, you don't quite need to have the whole myth carefully fleshed out on your head, as well as the origin of the myth and how it really happened... But you need at the very least to know what are the keypoints that are true and false of this myth and abide to it so as to not have contradictions happening when this myth is brought up again in the future.

At the same time, you can't just mention a myth and never make use of it, that's just a plain waste of content you yourself introduced.

So... I think you need to judge how much effort each thing need? Consistency is something of absolute importance regardless of what you're making though, so the keypoints need to be well set in your head at least, the details and more specific aspects don't need that much thought if something is too secondary though... At least that's how I view it.

Much more important than having your whole lore having a very solid foundation, I think it's more important for your story to be coherent with itself and to not leave too much (or rather, try to avoid those in general) loose ends... A solid foundation on lore always helps of course, but it's by no means necessary to make a good book IMHO.


It also depends a lot on the writing style of the author though... As someone that basically wings everything and then just edits it all later, it's kinda impossible for me to work with a solid lore, so I cannot quite focus my story on those.

For authors that work with careful planning though, a solid lore will give them a better foundation to make their plans work out in the way they way... At least it's how I view it.

 

I honestly disagree~

I mean, I sure do need to know what my setting is about, but I prefer letting the story give life to itself, it generally works well enough. I already tried working with well planned and carefully detailed settings... It's too constraining, the story kinda needs you to give life to it instead of growing by itself.

It works for some authors, for others it doesn't, I'd much rather make a first draft without thinking about anything in particular and then worrying about how to make anything that was left out of place to fit in by editing the story later.

I'd rather have a story with a vague foundation on my head, but is coherent and flows well with characters that are properly developed and have real motivations, over a story with a solid foundation that is dropped midway because I hate what is written and it doesn't quite reflect what I want out of the story~

 

I have only three schools of magic crafting in my world. Sorcery, Magic, and Miracles.

1. Sorcery is unorthodox magic crafting by sorcerers (sorcery users). Sorcerers use magical energy with a red hue to cast magic spells or arts faster than the magic users (magicians) and miracle users but with higher cost of magical energy. Though sorcery may have its advantage over other schools of magic crafting, because of the lack of constraints sorcerers have. Many have lost their humanity in the process of sorcery and this is why sorcerers are referred as outcasts or misunderstood as dark magicians.
2. Magic is orthodox magic crafting by magicians (magic users). Magicians use magical energy with a blue hue to cast magic spells or arts equivalent to the spell cost. Magic is conventional magic crafting and can be utilize by almost everyone except those lacking with stable magic affinity or crippled magic affinity. Majority of the magic communities recognize magicians as the proper school of magic crafting due to its very deep history and the foundation it gave to both those who utilize talents and effort.
3. Miracles is not magic crafting but is considered one due to its supernatural nature like the rest of the schools of magic crafting. Miracles are classified into three classes which are true miracles, false miracles, and quasi miracles. True miracles do not use magical energy at all but another energy found in all lifeforms that breathe in and out the hidden mysteries of the cosmos. False miracles are miracles that act similar to a true miracle except it uses magical energy to cast it. Quasi miracles are miracles that use magical energy except in the form of some artifact or instrument that warrants the particular use of one miracle. Miracles can be used by everyone, but only those in who have strong beliefs in faith can utilize strong miracles enough to change even fates or destiny. There are only very few true miracle users in the world and they are either laymen (not magic crafting practitioners) or people in the Church, temples, or other faiths with practical miracles.

 

dark wood tends to be fleshier though.

 

Planning the setting too much also makes it too constraining to me~

I'd rather have the story mold the setting, and then going over it later to make sure it all makes sense together~

 

Oh, on this I agree~

I mean, it can work on WNs, but you need a fair amount of unreleased chapters to change as necessary! Editing is important! >.<