Mary Sue. And why it's a "Flawed" Term.

Hey hey I take offense to that xD

 

i can understand why people like/dislike mary sue's i personally dont really care either way so long as the story is fun to read but if someone is just so good at whatever they're doing that it stops being interesting to read because you can practically guess every move the person is gonna do to the villain or in whatever disaster is going on does the whole mary sue thing bother me

 

How about we agree Mary Sues are those character who lack most of the 7 sins.

 

john wick is a mary sue.

 

It is completely unrelated to narcissism or extreme arrogance. I am merely telling people the truth. Why must you be so antagonistic for what i have to say ? Some parts of me scream shill alert for some reason. Shilling for what ? For the term of course. After all was said, and explained you still somehow still have to gall to make a psychological examination according to what i wrote ? What a joke.

 

Ehh, mary sue is not about strong and perfection. It's about every plot going according to MC's way. And again, your definition of mary sues is different from everybody here.

I think your friend is having truman syndrome rather than mary sue.

 

You know, I wanted to post a long and (hopefully) interesting comment tackling the issues I find with the term Mary Sue and its (mis)use.
But then I saw the first few comments and was like "I'm not gonna deal with this"

Just watch the video lewisking recommends, It (IMHO) talks about how the perfection of Mary Sue isn't really the issue, but the mindset that leads to it. As a lot of the authors who make Mary Sues do so for the sake of self-insert then proceed to make themselves better and more perfect. It does wonders for their ego, bit serves to kill off all sense of conflict and suspense (something that's absolutely vital to a story).
It's not really the flaws of an MC that are important, it's the conflict that the MC gets into that matters. It's just that character flaws are usually a very easy source of story conflict and are often even the whole reason certain stories happen. This has lead many people to conclude that it's a Mary sue's lack of flaws that leads to bad story, which really isn't true (it isn't entirely untrue however, as character flaws really help to humanize a character and are an important basis for character interaction.)
There's also the fact that many people tend to think a character flaw has to be some issue with a character's.. well, character(personality). When really, it only has to be an issue that serves as a source of conflict, like how one could describe One Punch man's main character flaw as a lack of any worthy opponents leading him to apathy. This isn't really something wrong with his personality, it's just an issue he seeks to overcome that drives the story.

...

That ended being a lot longer than I thought it would

 

op is like a flat earther.

abandon ship

 

I think you need a better understanding about the term "Mary Sue" in itself. Go visit marysuefacepalm tumblr.

 

You’d have to know the guy

 

Okay for me mary sue is not just because the female lead is powerful, beautiful and all the men should bow down to her.
It's also because the author creates too many opportunities for her out of thin air like sometimes it's too dumb like:
FL: Oh, i stepped on shit.
Wise man A: No its not its the legendary xxx or some shit.
FL: Cool then Imma keep this shit I'm sure it will be very useful later.
...
FL used shit!
*It's very effective!*
...
and sometimes the FL is so overpowered that when a situation comes a talent comes out of thin air and that talent wasn't even written in the character description or synopsis like:
FL: I'm the best assassin the 21st century ever have! bow down to me!
*some character is dying*
Also FL: No worries! I'm also a godly doctor!
*one hour later*
FL: Bam! you're safe and because of my really effective medicine with godly attributes you also leveled up your cultivation yay!
(like what the hell, the FL came from the 21st century how the fck did her medicine have the property to help someone from the cultivation world not only healed their injuries but also level them up)
(Oh, that's right it's because the FL learned some ancient book of medicine and the world she came to live in just conveniently have some ingredients to make them yay!)
...
Also the one thing i always see in novels is dumb villains all are cannon fodders jesus christ. I haven't seen any novel villains that are good and worth hating like in a good way. The same way you hate a very good villain. Jesus like they are just so dumb that you can't help but hate them in the bad way because they are that dumb and another thing is the FL is the only one who is reasonable like the other characters aren't. And the twist is if the FL can't convince then just kill them like that's the most reasonable logic in this world.
FL: *Says some cool reasonable shit*
Cannon fodder A: No way! we don't believe you! *she says that because she believes her trusted elder more who have been in the sect for many years and is trusted*
FL: Won't believe? then sorry all i can do is kill you. period.
(Yo! like would you trust your elder more or a person who just randomly showed up. and more often than not some villains commit crimes like what they did is because of something the FL did and it affected their lives direct or indirect.)
...
and the final thing (there are more but i won't write them all down) MC Justice is the only justice the world has to have screw all other people! the only one who is close to me is the only one who has the right to be safe. like this one for example.
FL: *all the people on this mansion bullied the original i can't forgive this!* Hey you! *points at the nearest maid* call all the maids here! and if they can't come then kill them.
Cannon fodder A and B: *whispers* what if the other's can't come because they are too busy?
*some people showed up the rest that didn't got killed* FL logic
...
like yo! some people if they encounter a scene like this they would say cool and badass like that's not badass! its just plain cruel its unfair for those maids who didn't come like in the example they may have just very well be super busy (well the FL is the FL fck the other people)
like let's just say the whole household bullied that original miss but there are some people who don't care they didn't bully the miss but didn't stop it either and in the eyes of FL that's a crime! she must have expected that these people should defend her and make their own lives miserable. heck! if i was there and I'm one of those maids I won't help the original but i won't bully her either life being a maid is hard enough i don't want to make my life more miserable sorry if you're life is like that but i have my own life to live.
Then when the soul that comes from the future she says the above example. like what the fck! and i just so happen to be busy and can't come then I'm really dead *cries*
...
So i say mary sue is not the perfect character in fact its the most flawed character ever the author is too lazy to write a good character and the novel they create is generally not good and is considered trash literature but we still read it because of the face slapping of the dumb villains like we dream of doing those things ourselves but we can't so we read this types and I'm sorry i didn't actually read the whole conversation I'm just here to say what mary sue means to me.

And mary sue is definitely a flawed term i mean it's a name? or is it? dun dun dun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh yeah, the comments above is definitely right if the FL is 3 years old just because she's the FL she defeats the most talented person in that world and have the capability that normal 3 year olds don't have dun dun dun!!!!!!! hahahahaaha
And i'm definitely not targeting a specific comment i haven't even read the whole convo.

And last but not the least kyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! My lady in red Catriona Gray won Miss Universe!!!!!!! I'm so proud!!!!! and i still can't get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Mary Sue is a term for a character whom a fan as used to place themselves in a story, and they often do something heroic or are important to the plot. Originates from a fan fiction of star trek where the author used a character called Mary Sue to place herself in the story.

 

Can you pls give me the list.

 

https://www.fanfiction.net/u/9071421/ZhaWarudo

No idea about Re:Zero but CG and DN don't have Mary Sue's...

 

Flawed characters can be worse Mary Sue, or Gary Stu. Oversized children have even less excuse for getting whatever they attempt, and a lot of them just stumble into fortune, fame, and harems.

 

Perfection is actually the end of growth, there is nowhere left to go, everything is done, flawless victory.

 

Like many before me said the problem isn't the Mary Sue it's the story the plot the conflict the drive there are surprisingly a lot of good novels with a Mary Sue (and I mean your version of one
a true Mary Sue isn't the character it's the story and everything in it revolving around one op character )
It's entirely possible to write good stories with an op character it has been done like others here showed and I'm sure you can find more
the core problem in this thread is that for you the term Mary Sue means an op character and that's wrong
And while we are on the topic I can recommend for you the joy of life which is a novel that a really nice twist to the a superwoman form 21 century goes to ancient Chinese world by revolving around her son after she died

 

It's a term i encountered a lot of times when just browsing through the 'Review' Section of fan fictions. Since i like to see what people think of a fiction before launching myself in and regretting when it fails to deliver later on.

I have come to realize that this 'Term','Label' Or whatever it is, is used to glorify seemingly " I'm always right and always win because I'm the MC bitch ! " Characters... Those beings made to look smart (but are usually either the less stupid one of the cast but still act like a self obsessed moron while everyone else is either a brain dead obnoxiously evil ape or a squealing fanboy/girl (not sure which on if the smartest of the two), or act as if they had read the novel beforehand and everybody else doesn't seem to be able to get a clue), strong (always win because the author write it this way) and without flaws (seen by everyone as flawless but act like a pridefull homicidal psychopath who can only think with his lower body brain (one cerebral hemisphere per nut)) . while promoting authors to write 'Flawed' ones. *Cough* i mean... Interresting multilayered ones.

The problem with that is : That it encourages authors to rely on 'OP' Cards to push certain situation and also ignore the PLOT. This promotes lazy thinking on the part of the author as he/she doesn't need to reason why said 'Characters' are doing something. They can just push the blame on the character's 'Opness'... This make writing easier, you don't need a solid reason to push certain situations, doesn't need to create 'Any kind of tension' because said characters are too OP to be get ever in trouble, and doesn't help self inserting and deply flawed readers from 'Relating' to an power wanker MC/s. In the end, this term, OP MC, seems to be the darling of people who have failed at life and do not want to improve themselves as a being/person. And just want to waste time 'Relating' to fictional characters that are over their level. The retard level is almost on par with this :



This reply should help make people understand better as to what i am trying to say.

 

Honestly, the term mary sue has been far too broad in usage over the years in order to form a stable definition that everyone can agree on.

What we can agree on that it involves perfect dudes in bad writing, although it may not be related to the concept of being OP itself, but rather how it is handled in writing that amplifies the bad writing.

It is like mixing hearty toppings into a rotten meal, the toppings end up tasting much more terrible than they should be in the process and they inadvertently add a new dimension to the bad taste, which makes it worse.