Merge Shounen-ai and Yaoi into Boys Love (Shoujo-ai and Yuri to Girls Love)

Discussion in 'Novel Updates Site Discussion' started by remy911, Nov 3, 2017.

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  1. Blique

    Blique Well-Known Member

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    That's not the point of the thread - the point is that the tags on NU are being misused and underused to the point of being worse than useless. In order words, this is why we can't have nice things. See my previous posts and remy911's posts for details on the context of the situation.

    I'm 100% in favor of yaoi and shounen ai genre tags on sites like Manga Updates, but it can't work for various reasons on NU due to the nature of danmei novels and the lack of comprehension of genre labels (which isn't the readers' fault; yaoi.and shounen ai are Western terms using Japanese words to describe Japanese manga in a way that Japanese readers don't but Westerners think they do, so anyone other than a BL-genre-savvy Westerner probably looks at the tags and goes wtf). It works with Japanese manga, but not with Chinese novels.
     
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  2. readerz

    readerz Madam Jin

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    I already edited my post 20 minutes or so before you posted.
     
  3. Blique

    Blique Well-Known Member

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    I take a while to type.

    The matter still stands that all you have to do is input "yes BL no Mature" and you get your shounen ai all the same. A clean up isn't going to work if people still change the tags back to how they were because they don't know what yaoi or shounen ai means. I had to personally babysit a singular shounen ai novel for a week because some person kept changing it to yaoi because "it's gay, so obviously it's yaoi". Locking every single BL novel genre tags is a bit too much to ask (not to mention the mods have to read the novel themselves and determine the correct tag, and then it might end up changing in future chapters, it's way too much trouble).
     
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  4. Ai chan

    Ai chan Queen of Yuri, Devourer of Traps, Thrusted Witch

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    Because they're not actually the same thing.

    Americans refer to boys from anything between infants to post-college age guys who still aren't mature. Even 30 year old guys can be called a 'boy' even if he's 30 if the caller is an older person. Same with girls, it doesn't matter what their age is, if someone older wants to call them girls instead of woman, then they're girls.

    Japanese shounen refers specifically to boys under 18, school aged males. There cannot be above 18 shounen. Above 18 genre is seinen, that's why there's a separation there. Same with shoujo, there cannot be above 18 shoujo. The Japanese are very strict with their terms. They understood enough that their shounen is not the same as American boy and their shoujo is not the same as American girl.

    Even if someone older call a boy 'shounen' in a condescending tone, it still specifically refers to underaged boy, meaning 'that boy'. If a young girl call someone 'shounen' in a non-condescending tone, they refer to their boyfriend, not just any boy. Older people calling non-underaged men something like a boy would instead use the term 'gaki', meaning 'brat'.

    So why they refuse to use shounen ai but use boys love instead? Because it refers to different things. If they label their BL work as shounen ai, people will think it's underaged pornography, you know. While you can't be arrested for writing erotic literature about underaged characters in Japan, the authors themselves may not want to associate themselves with pedophilia. Since BL is not the same thing as pedophilia, but shounen ai does.

    Anyhow, although it pains me to lose the yuri word, it's not like it's the end of the world. Yuri Shimai arbitrarily created the term in the first place to describe a more romantic lesbian literature instead of purely sexual lesbian literature (resubian).

    So I agree @remy911 , change it to 'boys love' and 'girls love' but why stop there? It's better to use the term 'gay' and 'lesbian'. After all, the Japanese adopted the term from the west before creating their own.

    It's about time westerners stop cringing about the terms 'gay' and 'lesbian'.
     
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  5. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Doesn't include bixesuality, and isn't used on the raws.

    If we're changing it, might as well change it to what they use on the raws. And to a term that doesn't create confusion or exclusion.
     
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  6. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL New Member Staff Member

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    This should have a public poll....
     
  7. Arcturus

    Arcturus Cat, Hidden Sith Lord

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    *checks date* 12 days only....Ah well.
     
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  8. LaDyViL

    LaDyViL New Member Staff Member

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    I know, I checked. Safe, haha
     
  9. zamu

    zamu Active Member

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    I'd agree to this.
     
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