LCD Mother of Learning

No. He doesn't know where the Time Loop versions of them are. But he knows where Pre Loop Silverlake will be and unless Time Loop Silverlake immediately rushes home in order to kill her Pre Loop version then Zorian could Mind Rape the Pre Loop version of her and learn so many incredible things that may be very helpful in countering the invasion. She was never overly helpful beyond what would be of direct help to her getting out of the loop. She is over a century old at minimum and was skilled enough to make herself immortal. She likely knows a lot of beneficial stuff that she didn't want to share fore the greater good being the petty old woman she is.
And just because the New Silverlakes position is unknown doesn't mean Zorian couldn't figure it out. Using and soul tracking or blood magic tracking likely wouldnt work. Different body and a unnatural soul though on the 2nd one I'm up in the air about its effectiveness. But if he had enough time in her head Zorian could figure out a lot about her personally. Tendencies and even places she may go for supplies or a hideout. He could find out clues that while wouldnt immediately lead him to her could send him in the correct direction.

As for Veyers. While the potential for information from him is non existent they is a slim possibility that if he became Red Robe, Zorian could find out something from the Original Red Robe (speculatively Veyers) that would help tell Zorian where Red Robe may go. Though with all the time Red Robe spent in the Loop any Pre Loop tendencies he had are likely to be worn away there is still that slim chance assuming their initial guess at his identity was correct.

All this being said I revise my guess on what will happen.
He is totally gonna go see the matriarch first. Would make for a great chapter.

 

Also. Apologies for the double post.
But I was reading back a bit in the LCD and I think it important to note that Silverlake and Red Robe working together is a given. Them separating until the end would be monumentally foolish. Now that this isn't the loop, so much more preparation must be done. RR must be brought up to speed on any and all possible changes and scenarios to the month. And while Silverlake wasn't the backing party behind the combat operations she was a core member of the team and would still know a lot about everything going on. It wasn't like she was kept in the dark to only work on her part of the operation. She gave much advice and even worked in Subjugating Q.
One of the first things Silverlake is likely to do is to see if she must worry about anyone else with time loop information. She was very aware of who all the members of Zorians band are and most assuredly knows all about Zorians past.
She will surely check him out to see if he or anyone aside from Zach made it out successfully. She has good reason to think they didn't but Silver Lake is smart and she won't make an assumption concerning the greatest potential problem to her continued survival.



Also if Pan was intelligent enough to try and get Zorian to Mind Rape Zach in trade for his life then i think it a given that Pan would treat his two new underlings with some care and thought.
He will tell them what he knows, how much that can be is up in the air but at the very least he will tell his two underlings that they are working together and figure out how to ensure his release or die.
Pan would be a complete imbecile to not tell them they are to work together. And an ancient, immortal being who is wise enough to tempt Zorian into betraying his cause for a guaranteed way out and effectively killing the controller would not be so stupid to leave his subordinates in the dark. His only real shot at freedom...

If he can create 2 new bodies to house a soul in the real world then I am sure he would waste some of his energy to give them the best chances possible at saving his life by telling them what he can.
Afterall, creating a pair of Bodies and injecting souls into them is decisively harder than sending his thoughts to them. At least given everything we know about magic in MoL.

@hanglekuk @mrttao since this was your debate before and im just catching up now.

As another aside. Cancelling the invasion will not be anywhere near as simple as it was in the time loop.
They only ever successfully prevented the invasion after Red Robe had left the loop.

With him back in play now and silverlakes knowledge. Any of the same methods are likely to be countered and even if they aren't, you now have 2 people who will assist Q (Lich... name too long) in completing his invasion no matter the cost. Any set back they encounter they will do their best to work around. I think it unreasonable to think every plan Zorian puts into motion will succeed, that'd be just boring.
Destroy the portal?
They have Silverlake to help work around that now. Plus they would inform Q of it's inadequate defenses.
Get rid of Sudomir?
In the Real world they can now summon the demons they had originally planned on summoning but couldn't due to the whole world not being connected to other planes of existence. Sudomirs loss will not be felt nearly as bad as it was previously. Again, RR and SL would have some plan to assists him in such an event. Not saying it would work but it will be nowhere as easy as it was before. No more multiple attacks to figure out what changes RR and SL will bring to the table.

For as much as we know from the loop this whole real month is going to be an entirely unique one as the theory both sides have made to combat each other meet head to head. This will inevitably cause both of their plans to go horribly awry and create many more new outcomes that we have not previously seen before.

Frankly as soon as Silver Lake went traitor all their plans become unreliable. Or atleast their success was no longer such a sure thing, so backup plans must be made under the assumption that Silverlake and Red Robe will counteract some of their schemes.
After all, it is hubris to assume that all your strategies will work when you have a traitor who is wise to the way you work and has information on your plans of attack if unchanged.

These last 8 - 10 chapters should contain a lot of interactions and plans that we have never seen before.

Zorian has the advantage since he had 5 and a half months after SL's betrayal to plan new contingencies to their plans but her and Red Robe are a definite game changer.
This whole Real month is going to be wholly different, That's my prediction at least.

 

The main LCD chapter discussions are happening under reddit r/rational. The latest chapter discussion was close to 500 comments, AFAIK, and it kinda has at least 200 comments on average. If you are bored or liked some chapters - go read some of the older chapter discussions.

The Silverlake is hard target. Her paranoia would likely to cause her to self-destruct.

Also, the Pan never attempted to mind rape Zach. (He got 3rd party to do it). So he has no direct influence on mind inside loop. RR most likely did it. The only think he can do is show and tell (like when he was discussing with conspirators in the space of SG - he was showing random forms. So what he could do - show Silverlake form he created for RR and maybe brief on some things). But RR is out of influence. I'll repeat myself - he's got the plan for himself and it is just more difficult to change them to accommodate complete stranger the silverlake is for him. And why paranoid Silverlake would trust her own life into complete stranger again? Rely a little bit - maybe. But she will go and do her own thing as she always does.

They might even clash together vs dragon cultist heads. RR should be a member of cult and SL would try to show off her new young body and try to get the seniors of cult to follow her plan into releasing Pan into wild - she's already been there and got a body swapped or whatever. I'm pretty sure RR and SL will impede each other more than assist - cause each of their will think their plan is better.

 

Silver Lake could very well self destruct. But with Zorians monumental expertise in Mind Magic now he has the best shot at her that he will likely ever get. Plus the old Silver Lake was unable to even have simulacrums because she was the kind of person to not be able to handle the idea of there being more than one of her.
This opportunity will quickly disappear.

I never said Pan attempted himself. I said he tried to Manipulate Zorian into doing it for him.
And I said Pan can get them up to date when he creates their bodies in the real world. To think he would not is to insult the intelligence of a being who has already been shown to be intelligent.
He has yet to create the bodies since the loop hasn't technically ended. Once the loop ends then Pan creates the bodies at the same time.
The loop and all its years all happen in the same moment. In the real world after that moment occurs, then changes began influencing the real world. It means nothing is RR left the loop years earlier since RR and SL get their bodies made at the same time. He will inform them both.

Sure repeat yourself. RR does have his own plan. One that is now severely out of date and has had years for his enemies to analyze and pick apart. If you think RR or SL are incompetent enough to still have faith in such a plan then I can only say I read about completely different characters than you. Cause neither of them would be so foolish.

Silverlake is paranoid but she cares far more about her own life. She is pragmatic. She joined with Zorians group when she realized it was her best shot at living. She will join with RR, there is already a precedent for her doing so. We readers can see it is the best way for her chances st living to go up. If we can see it SL would miss it.
If she can work intimately with Zorian she can do so with RR.

I dont think they will impede eachother st all. It's been shown that the cultists can already successfully release Pan. Both of them know this. There is no need for SL to help in that area unless she wants to optimize. Her true value is being the betrayer and all the knowledge she has of Xorians plans. 8f the Author were to ignore that aspect then these last chapters will be bad, they will not make sense. If SL just does her own thing Zorian has a near guaranteed chance to avert the summoning and counteract the invasion. He was the most recent looper after all. His plans are the most up to date. Without SL leaving any new conflict would only come from zach, Angel's and demons and whatever last second adaptation RR can make to his plans once foiled. SL adds a huge new dimension to that and if the author ignores it then he may aswell not had her betray them. Her doing her own thing would pale in effectiveness to completely updating RR and his schemes.
RR is seemingly intelligent enough to realize she has the most up to date information on his enemies and their plans against him. Plus when she realizes Zorian made it out then she will know the biggest threat has made it out... RR should be jumping for joy that he has an opportunity to change his plans instead of walking head first into all the pitfalls Zorian would have made for him.

 

There's like two more days and we will read the chapter (I'm sure the chapter will be published at very late Wednesday. Or more likely early Thursday).

The time did not stop in real world. It is hugely accelerated inside SG, but it does pass. I've read it's something like 1:22000. (the 4 week black room was something like 1:30, the orb was something like 1:150. So even if the time acceleration value is 1:22000, the one month in SG is like 2 minutes in RL. 30 cycles - 1 hour.
What I've meant to say, there RR is already out and he had a couple hours of lead time to do stuff in real life while the rest are still stuck in the loop.

 

I believe this is an incorrect assumption. He said they left, and then he couldn't shut it down after they left because the controller was still inside.

So basically what you have is a computer going:

Code:

Script initiated, controller leaving protocol
hack: Create_New_Body()
... completed
Export_Soul()...
... completed (variable "controller_left" set to true)
Loop_Shutdown()...
... error, controller detected inside the loop, aborting shutdown procedure.

The error and aborting of the script happens AFTER the other person left the loop.

This is why the program told them explicitly and decisively that the controller has left the loop. And when they tried to argue he is still in the loop it agreed. Why? because both of those variables are set to true. The controller has left, and the controller is in the loop. Basically they are on a bugged instance.

 

So the way that i see this and what i believe to be correct.

Even though both have left this Time Loop at different points they both start at the same time in the Real World.
Time passing in the Time Loop doesn't make much sense... if it did RR would come to being well past half way through the month and Zorian and Zach would come into being at the very end of the month, likely during the invasion. Time isn't dilated in the Loop, it is completely seperate from reality in that aspect. This is falsified by Zorian awakening earlier than he has ever awoken before. So Time doesnt pass in the Loop, that's the whole point of it replaying every month.

Under the assumption that RR and SL immediately had bodies created for them the got a head start on Zorian since it took him time to find his body. Presumably Zach is still asleep or if he isn't he started at the same time as RR and SL.

So even if people leave the Loop at different times they all re-enter the real world at the same time. This is the time i think Pan would talk to both RR and SL. If he can influence reality enough to create two new fleshly bodies to house souls then he should be more than capable of speaking to them both in some way at that time... when they are both together.
When they left they both could no longer be tampered with as time sees it within the Loop, but out of the Loop they come into being at the same moment despite leaving at separate times.

I'm in a rush headed to work, sorry if i sound confusing. If i did i will re-address it later.

 

This is false. We were explicitly told that time is dilated in the loop.

 

Okay. I was mis-remembering what exactly Time Dilation is.
Since it is all relative then ya this all makes sense and actually follows the story perfectly.
My bad.

Though it is seemingly dilated to such a high degree that it seemingly may aswell be nothing.
I dont think RR has hours of a head start. I think even minutes is pushing it, likely only scant seconds. @hanglekuk

Anyways all this is branching off me asserting Pan is more than capable of informing his follows of their new found partnership and the whole they would work together spiel.

Thanks for jogging my admittedly foggy concepts of Time Dilation @mrttao

Me rushing around likely didnt help. I usually put more time into posts

 

I think the more realistic option is that he goes to where Zach is and then catches up on what happened after he left. Then they'd go and split up and make haste, because time is of the essence.

 

I suppose it is more likely he meets up with zach.
Though I dont know if he will have any reservations about that or not.

Pan did elude to zach perhaps being different once he left. Paired with Zaxhs insistence to not undo the compulsions put on him Zorian has reason to be suspicious.
So much reason it was the motivating factor I think behind him learning a mind blank loophole.

 

Yes, it is ridiculously compressed.
I believe that the guys who left before the MC only have a few minutes head start on him rather than the hours head start some people are saying.

Also, zach might yet leave

 

I'd bet that Zach carries some of the copies/information/transfer things as backup means if Zorian was to fail escape the loop. (It shouldn't be memory packets, but something like Zorian transferred notes for the people).
If Zach and Zorian meet, it is just to confirm that Zorian escaped. There was no real way to confirm from inside and I'm sure Zach witnessed Zorian being killed.

There might be an alternative explanation. Zach does have some more secrets, which weren't revealed yet. So he's more afraid that they would be revealed and he does not want that yet. If the QI/Dragon cultists/RR/whatever is one faction, why there shouldn't be some other faction with agenda. And Zach may be a member of that faction (who might have other goals to saw chaos in Cyoria).
So there are some secrets, but it is not Pan or RR, it is something else entirely.

Nah. The primary target there should be QI. If he can attack his mind with mind blank on, it's an easy win every time. Also mind blank is the achiles' heel for mind mage. If he was able to beat mind blank, he's not touchable by anyone (especially considering his simulacrums would have this ability as well).

I think Zorian's work ethics may be not that high as Quatach Ichl, but it is pretty damn high. So I don't think he's ever going to peek into Zach's mind without his invitation.

 

For one thing we know the time loop began very early in the morning, aka right around when Zorian actually arrived in the real world in the latest chapter. Also, if it was hours of head start, it would imply that if someone was in the time loop for even longer (remember that the time loop typically can last a lot longer when it is created properly at the planar alignment), they would probably appear to be dead to the world for days which would be patently ridiculous.

 

Zach should be unable to carry over anything in his mind shouldn't he? Or can he use that spell that copies an object and creates a copy in your mind?
If he can't he definitely didnt a low Zorian in there.

I do agree. Zach is likely an agent of a new faction. My money is on the Angel's. And their motivations and goals are as of yet unknown aside from stop the primordial.

Q is a definite factor. Thoigh he is a known threat. Zach's potential for harm is as of yet unknown which is why I put him as the motivating factor. But at the end of the day the pure utility of the spell does help him immensely.

With how much the whole zach's mind being tampered with has been brought up and foreshadowed I think it is going to be a big part of the story when Zorian is forced by necessity to pry open Zachs mind.

 

New chapter (^-^)b

 

Was only checking every 15 minutes for the entire day.....

 

Simulacrum 2 is the best out of all of them.

What I like about these simulacrums is that they're all subtly different from the original because they live in the moment.

 

Any end in sight?

 

The fact zorian and silverlake were both back seems to indicate to me redrobe is not the guy they thought he was. Since he remained souldead in the loop...

... unless he had an accomplice he gave a temporary mark to who soulkilled him in the loop after he left.

edit: Also, I don't believe the 2nd silverlake is old. She must have gotten a young body since she was getting a brand new body anyways might as well make it young.