LCD Mother of Learning

Discussion in 'Latest Chapter Discussion' started by jacobpaige, Apr 25, 2016.

  1. hanglekuk

    hanglekuk Well-Known Member

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    Their escape path was opening path to the prison primordial was caged in and then opening path to reality. Pan was trying to stop them. They were going through the prison so I'm thinking primordial was not totally helpless. How restricted primordial is in the prison? Well, no clues. But the vibe I was getting - just imprisoned.
    Also, according to the Pan (which may or may not be true), after escaping the prison it would be very weak and would need a lot of time to recover.
    It is not clear how large it is. When Pan was summoned mid month and broke reality it was kind of large though. But it should be reasonable size (e.g., godzilla and what not) to roam around. It shouldn't be moon size because it wouldn't be able to roam continents.
     
  2. mrttao

    mrttao Well-Known Member

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    1. strawman, I said they fought a tiny avatar extruded into the timeloop and not his real bodyself. Not that he was "completely helpless".

    2. the entire timeloop is literally on the inside of his body. So saying they were going "through his prison" is inaccurate way to describe the situation.

    3. what they were tunneling through is completely irrelevant. He did not wait for them to leave the loop to attack. He attacked and killed all of them inside the loop itself before they even managed to leave. And likely the only reason he didn't attack zorian's soul; as it travelled through the tunnel was the detonation of the orb.

    4. they were crafting a stable and shielded dimensional tunnel (using the orb as the shield). For an analogy, take the webway in WH40k. You are arguing against "khorne showing up physically on a planet is passively devastating even before he takes action" by claiming that anyone who goes through the webway is basically equally exposed to khorne, therefore khorne (or greater daemons in general) don't do anything to the people around them passively.
     
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  3. Ltxt

    Ltxt Active Member

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    Hello, here is my theory about Red Robe:

    He/she is a shifter, they have 2 souls so put a mark in their second soul before the first one expire is probably easy, compared to use gods magic to modify it.

    Rayne is the best candidate for it, Zach could have used the crown to impress her, then she became powerfull and returned to her tribe only to be killed for trying to usurp the leadership, and her tribe may be part of the cult after all they got their power from the blood of the primordial, and they consider the other tribes traitors so they don´t care about killing then.

    That is it, I am learning english so please correct my grammar.
     
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  4. hanglekuk

    hanglekuk Well-Known Member

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    Not likely. The shifter is something more intimate than soul bond. However the soul is much more integrated if compared with soul bond. Even Silverlake had issues with her bond gone away. So I'd think even if the two soul marks are required for shifters, shifter would just die with the half mark instead of alternating marks between the souls.
    I don't think I've seen a theory like this, so I guess good job with coming up something unique :)
    and reddit (under r/rational) is the best place to discuss chapters. Just go there and read the older chapter discussions - there are plenty of theories in there.
     
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  5. hanglekuk

    hanglekuk Well-Known Member

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    Yay, looks like no delay for this week as well (usually author posts on patreon already about the delay), so only a couple days left.
    Also from authors page:
    After the chapter 96 for this weekend there should be only 3-5 chapters left. OMG. TOO FAST.
    Do you think author will deliver? The suspense is all time high and so few chapters left to unravel mysteries.

    Also, I think there are two new looping TV series for 2019. Have anyone watched Russian doll or Happy deathday 2u?
     
  6. Viola

    Viola Studio Ghibli Fanboy Mother of Learning Fanboy

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    I'm on episode 3 of Russian Doll.
    Its a bit early to tell but it seems pretty good.
    Does the looping well.

    As for the.other. I heard cheap scares and comedy focus
     
  7. hanglekuk

    hanglekuk Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I've watched both. However I've only found movie of latter (Which is the series is based on most likely). And I guess both of them are OK to pass time while waiting for the real thing.

    The Russian doll is more about weirdos. In some way I'd say it reminded me of old TV series "Northern exposure". There were so many weird/eccentric personalities in that one. And in Russian doll - weird is new normal (almost).
    Happy death day is... well, about becoming a better person. The bitch transforms. Also, a slasher movie.

    So in both there are people stuck on the loop. But I'd say the nature of happy death day movie feels closer to MOL (for me).
    Anyways, just one more day to go for the update :)
     
  8. Viola

    Viola Studio Ghibli Fanboy Mother of Learning Fanboy

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    I was definitely starting to get that vibe about Russian Doll. Had a lot of extreme personalities in it. Bit of a draw honestly.
    Though now ill be watching Umbrella Academy so it'll have to wait.

    I really liked the 1st Happy Death Day. I was so surprised sharing a 2nd was coming out though. I thought it was a gag at first... but it sounds like it didn't take itself seriously and just went for fun so ill watch it.

    Also, 1 MORE DAY!!!! YAS
     
  9. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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  10. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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  11. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    Zorian Could Be Sosiopath Like RR or Even Worse Phsycopath Like QI

    >Keep in mind this’s just speculation and assumtion.<
    >If you want to know the correct answer, ask Nobody in MoLUniverse blog<

    The key to start this discussion is from this senteces.

    Ø "It is a secret," the angel responded. "There were considerable restrictions in regards to candidates. They had to begin the month in Cyoria. They needed to have a certain potential and mentality. They needed to have considerable freedom of movement and association. They needed to satisfy the ethical guidelines. And so much more. I cannot tell you the details." (MoL chapter 96)

    Ø “Heavens no," the angel said. "He (Zorian) fails just about every criteria, especially in regards to mentality. I am surprised he was even willing to risk his life in this manner, based on his previous actions and attitudes."(MoL chapter 96)

    So at the first restart when Zorian still not gain the Marker, he was introduced as whiny, edgy teenager who thought like world owe him big debt for every bad thing that befall upon him, worse parents, worse siblings especialy Daimen, and uncontrol empath ability that make him unstable. Zorian is smart, studious, and person with highly work ethic and spark of talent in some field of disciplines.What if He start as looper with temporary marker and retain his knowledge across restart instead got original marker from Zach ?

    Now take those qualities into consoderation and imagine with me, will you ? What could happen to him and what high end feat he could be ?. I mayself imagine he will corrupted by watching people doing wrong and immoral action across restart and knowing how corrupt Nation authorities can be especialy Eldemar, and thinking it’s common sense of human nature to do horrible thing just for power.

    Once Zorian start wrong doing he will continue do that until he start disregard about human right just to pursue magical knowledge. Looking how Jornak end up as Red Robe and with his experience in Time Loop and set him as exemple I won’t suprised if Zorian become far worse than RR as ultra extreme mind mage, full pleged Necromancer, and top blood mage as demon summoner. The reason, Zorian is a kid and kid can be influenced and change personality and prespective much faster than adult. That’s end of my assumtion about Bad Ending or Dark Zorian could be.

    Now we start the reason why a whiny and edgy teenager Zorian end up to be moral and compassion person. I take Soul Bond, Lukav assumtion, and Shifter ritual to boost my assumtion in this theory.

    Ø Soul bonds were a dangerous and poorly understood branch of magic, capable of causing some pretty horrifying side effects if used recklessly. The main issue was

    that one of the participants usually started to mentally and spiritually dominate the other, making them more like themselves in mind and soul. (Zorian monologue, page 164 MoL ebook)

    Ø Your soul appears to be converting it into just another piece of itself rather than trying to keep it distinct. So there shouldn’t be any major personality shifts and you probably won’t get any nifty abilities from whomever or whatever it was that donated a part of their soul to you. Though, I guess it is possible that the fragment had affected your personality to an extent when you first got it, before your soul had the chance to assimilate it sufficiently, and such influences may linger still.(Luka Assumtion, page 468 MoL ebook)

    Ø Being a shifter means you get instincts from the other part of the soul, and magical creatures always have very strong souls. . . the more magical the creature, the stronger. And they tend to be extremely violent and territorial. With regards to grey hunters, I’m fairly certain they don’t tolerate even their own kind, much less anything else.(Kael warning about becoming a shifter, page 591 MoL ebook)



    Those theory make assumtion that gaining other people/being soul that connected to your soul will inlfluences your personality. Zach is compassion, moral and upright standing person and in this regard the similliar character like Zach is Naruto. Zorian gain a chunk of Zach soul make him inherited that qualities like Zach, that is core reason Zarion personality become good. Time loop further enchance this qualities, in the time loop Zorian start befriend with other people like Zach, Kael, Alanic, Xvim and his other classmates, and that friendship experience make him to be Lawful Good person, with his empath ability in control make him less jerk .
     
  12. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    Zorian by @elChrisSenpai zorian.png
     
  13. NZPIEFACE

    NZPIEFACE Leecher

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    huh so...
    i mean im not surprised at RR
     
  14. hanglekuk

    hanglekuk Well-Known Member

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    my reaction after reading this chapter:
    I AM DISSAPOINT. At least to me it seems that quite a few details are not fitting that well.

    I'll have to re-read the chapter about Jornak, but the impression I had that he was a NoM (not a mage, a regular citizen). Or a substandard mage at all. I think by the time Zorian performed a mind reading on him, he was qualified enough to identify his traits/status for pre-loop.

    Anyways, some random conclusions/thoughts after reading the chapter:

    given enough resources/time even monkey can become archmage/mindmage/whatever. (Jornak as very bland person prior loop. If he had any decent talent, he would be most likely working as a mage already instead of being lawyer).

    The Red Robe stolen from cultists can be explained, however getting crown as newbies from QI for initial temporary mark, getting QI to modify temporary market, getting access to royal vault for dagger - those details are very thin. The knowledge about SG (the artifacts, soul markers) and how they knew that QI had the crown of the king to even include others in looping - it does not seem to be that Jornak was privy of this information and Zach knew pretty much nothing besides the bars. If Zach had visited SG , he could have learned something from controller, but it is still very far fetched. (I think it was Zorian who entered SG by feeling/using soul markers, Zach was oblivious to them). A very catch-22 issue in general. I just can imagine any plausible scenario how this situation where Zach granted a temporary marker to Jornak might have happened reasonably.

    There might be an explanation for QI holding his end of the deal all the time. It is part of divine blessing he has. As a whim or not, the god who placed the blessing/contract on him mandated that he never breaks any deals (or there he will die/lose the divine blessing/whatever). There might be some clause about others approaching/offering a deal (it cannot refuse a reasonable deal). E.g., if the undead vampire management asks him to be a general and they promise to take care of his subordinates or what not, he has to accept due to divine blessing (has was offered reasonable deal with reasonable compensation). So Jornak with Zach randomly asked QI to borrow a crown for 5 minutes (and provide a relevant payment - very little for such request) and QI just had to agree due to his divine contract/blessing.

    It is also very likely that contract Pan had signed with SL and RR is of different nature than Zach. Zach agreed to it in the sleep and then he was shoved into SG with very little information about SG.
    Pan is enforcing his contract some other way (not divine magic), but it is complicated enough that SL can untangle it during the month until it expires.
     
  15. Viola

    Viola Studio Ghibli Fanboy Mother of Learning Fanboy

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    @OrdinaryUser
    Your theory. I could get behind. It does make a lot of sense making the same assumptions you are.

    Zorian had a chip on his shoulder, a really big chip on his shoulder. If we assume the melding with Zach did change him for the better some. Then i could totally see a young Zorian pursuing abilities in the Loop for far more selfish goals. I think he would be less opposed if opposed at all to using Mind Magic in a more rampant manner to get what it is he wants.

    I think the manner of his entry to the Loop is a big factor for his goal to prevent the Invasion. But i can definitely get behind him being influenced by bits of Zach's soul.

    Maybe, he could be doing it because he likes to do good. He is a genuinely good person who wants to help people within the system. He sees the issues with the system and how they are not as good as he thinks. Joins the Cult in an attempt to change things for the better. Once he realizes the Loop he then begins to pursue Magic seriously. By doing so he is now equipped to air the dirty laundry of all the countries and their hypocrisy.
    Seeing all of this evil in something touted to be so good could cause him to want to use more extreme methods to bring about a wholly better future... in the long run.
    He figures a time of great bad for a brighter future is better than keeping the staus quo.
    I think he was a good person and still sees himself as a good person. He has just become lost upon the road paved with good intentions. His picture of the future is good, but the path he is taking to realize it is the very thing he was initially against.

    You see this happen with many people. They lose themselves in their pursuit of good. They still pursue the good... but they way they bring it about has lost their initial ideals.
    This is my theory behind his personality at least.
    When his eyes were opened he saw magic as the route to bring about good so it was then he seriously pursued it as opposed to the broken system.

    That is an interesting if convoluted theory.
    it could just as easily be that he is a man of some honor.
    Just because one Divine Blessing comes with an extra contract doesn't QI's does.
    Still an interesting theory though.

    Given the new information about Zach and his contract. I now do think there is a remote chance that they could temporarily team up.
    The Angels have come out and said now all that matters is that Pan doesn't get out. Everything else will be ignored if that one thing is still upheld.

    So for team Zorian to win and survive the Primordial must remain sealed and Zach's contract must be broken.

    For Jornak to win and survive he must release the primordial or break his contract. And create a situation that starts a round of Splinter Wars to change the Status Quo and create a better world.
    For him the Primordial is ideal based on what he knows but it is not the only way to achieve his Goal.

    For SL she needs to break her contract or release the primordial.

    For QI he just needs to start a round of Splinter Wars with Eldemar preferably on the weaker side of things.

    Jornak being the only real potential holdout they could all agree to focus their collective energies on Contract breaking and ignore each other.
    Then they would resume their hostilities afterwards.
    SL would be out but i think she isn't the most reliable partner for either side at this point.
    Qi could be satisfied with using the already installed Wraith Bombs along with his assault as the trigger for Splinter Wars.
    Zorian would eliminate the Primordial from the equation and only have to deal with more mundane methods. Same with Zach.
    Jornak would still have some very real and dangerous cards to use to set the World aflame. He also wouldn't have to worry about the Variable that is Zorian and his team messing up his plans, leading to his immediate death by contract.

    Right now, if one side fails they can never try again. The Angels or the Contract will kill them all. But if they wait or work together until the do or die nature of their conflict is dealt with then upon failure they can continue to try and enact their plans or prevent their plans.

    Right now their conflict is akin to the final battle. Win or Lose it all depends on this one conflict. But they could both hedge their bets if they aren't overwhelmingly sure of the ability to be the winner.
    Assuming they think they have a chance at breaking the contracts they could turn this from the final battle of their war to just another conflict with the benefit that if they lose, they can try again.
     
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  16. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    I chose Banisek as RR so I guess I had lost the bet :blobpats:
     
  17. Bright_Lucky_Star

    Bright_Lucky_Star [Previously Known as OrdinaryUser] The Blessed One

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    Final Battle will certainty take a place, Angel has told Z&Z about it.
    "Take this," the angel said. "Use it to summon me for the final battle."

    "How do you know there will be a final battle?" asked Zorian.

    "The future is hazy and constantly changing, but some things are more certain than others," the angel said

    After angel summoning ritual Z&Z Team had friendly chat with RR Team about Truce, I don't know if Z&Z will agree with such proposal but I will say it's not smart move to agree because RR Team already had huge advantage but then again they had no choce, either agree or wraith bomb explode. Never trust a villain with nuclear like weapon on his grab and QI already know about time loop, Z&Z will be difficult to mind wipe QI without cause harm to themself.
    Wow this's really all out battle even long forgotten character like Oganj appear, well Z&Z also have aranea webs as backing, with their help aranea can used to control horde of monsters and neutralize enemies in subtle way. With Alanic on Z&Z side can we assume Triumvirate Church will help them as well, right ?
     
  18. hanglekuk

    hanglekuk Well-Known Member

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    Well, Jornak's motives and drive is clear and I'm not really surprised here. There's not much to discuss about his motives (at least for me).

    The author was sneakish about Jornak (that he was a mage). He had a rudimentary mental defense and asked for a representative of mage guild - so not clear how much of the mage he was. The chapter his skills were explained is 75:
    https://www.fictionpress.com/s/2961893/75/Mother-of-Learning
    Anyway, I think Jornak should have been a mediocre mage at best ( him working as lawyer is well, some sort of illustration of his achievements), but he got pretty powerful after looping (simulacra-soul magic, wards, divination, mind magic, etc). So either he was super talented (but his talent never uncovered/explained) or just grinding with enough effort/resources/time would allow almost anyone to become a very powerful mage. I guess most people are lacking resources (and maybe drive).

    Hopefully there will be more discussing with SL/QI. I wonder how much the latter is involved in all of this.

    Don't forget the elementals. Chapter was wasted introducing them and we didn't see them elsewhere. It makes little sense, besides foreshadowing - it is very likely they will come up again. Also hopefully there will be some lesser slice-of-life mysteries resolved as well, like Fortov pushing girl into bushes, some other stuff.

    Also, when you were talking about soul merger and affects on Zorian/Zach - you somehow ignored the fact that Zorian was very impacted by his uncontrolled empath talent. A lot of his loner/unsociable person part was related to that. And getting it under control allowed him to meet more people, discover/participate in this part of life. And I'd say the effect should be larger than a part of Zach's soul.
     
  19. Viola

    Viola Studio Ghibli Fanboy Mother of Learning Fanboy

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    I think it is more time and access to restricted or just hidden information.

    I the real World Money can buy you some of that but not all. The Loop is most valuable for the way you can take information from everyone and not so much about the resources imo.

    I agree that he was mediocre at the beginning. But was in the loop enough on Magic to take advantage of this unique situation.

    Maybe next chapter we will find out if there was some sort of deal made with QI and if he was the one to modify the marker.
     
  20. hanglekuk

    hanglekuk Well-Known Member

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    Well, knowledge is resource as well in my mind. At least I bundled it under resources. The crystalized mana is more like money/currency of mages.

    And yes, I do hope for a reveal how Jornak hitched the ride with Zach.
     
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