Discussion MTL seniors, please teach me your ways.

Discussion in 'Novel Discussion' started by Grand_Rider_Iskandar, Feb 6, 2021.

  1. Grand_Rider_Iskandar

    Grand_Rider_Iskandar Well-Known Member

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    Yup, I'm at that point where I read MTLs. Some are readable, but a lot of them isn't. But some good novels had their translations stopped, and it would be a pity not finishing them.
     
  2. otaku31

    otaku31 Well-Known Member

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    I've researched long, hard and deep into the arcane ways of MTL. I've made friends with Google(TL), Systran, Baidu(TL), and even two-timed with DeepL along the way. And the definitive conclusion I've reached... it's not worth it!
     
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  3. Rizkiv1

    Rizkiv1 Well-Known Member

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    to people above me, have you recovered/recoverable? if so, how long? any long-term complication?
     
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  4. Arkantos

    Arkantos Well-Known Member

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    MT is a good way to destroy your english.
     
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  5. thisworldofmine1

    thisworldofmine1 Grandmaster of Danmei Cultivation

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    Search up the Chinese( in my case) title of the novel and find a website that has all the chapters. Or just use an mtl site.
     
  6. Neiri

    Neiri Well-Known Member

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    Reading MTL is so irritating your brain will sue you for war crimes
     
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  7. Astaroth

    Astaroth empty

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    If you've read enough novels on Webnovel, Flying Lines, Tapread, and some other sites you should already be familiar enough with Google Translate's translations. :)
     
  8. amaliajun

    amaliajun [Gloomy White Cat]

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    Because I'm bad with grammar anyway, I still stood tall reading MTL.
    Tho, the biggest reason is I understand some basic Korean...
     
  9. AncestorRebellion

    AncestorRebellion Well-Known Member

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    Good tips for reading mtl:
    -Don't assume pronouns - the first time a character is mentioned, there is a chance that they have had their pronouns changed. For example, a female being called 'he'. To overcome this tribulation, just look for said character's description/characteristics. More likely than not, a female in an Asian novel will do some bs you wouldn't expect a male to do. Very easy to recognise if it's a female because every one of them is a 'jade beauty' with 'phoenix eyes' as we all know.

    -Syntax. This is quite a common language fact - not every language has the same syntax. Just get used to the syntax used for the novel you're reading and it should help you understand better. I can't exactly give any advise on this because even I don't know the syntax of Chinese - just mtl a lot of novels and based on the experience you'll accumulate, you'll improve.

    -Skip poems. Why? You won't understand them. They're tough to understand even if they're properly translated into English let alone when they're in mtl format.

    -Pay attention to only the key bits of the chapter. Some novels are tough to mtl because they might be trying to convey something abstract or even describing an object. If you miss this information out, trust me - you won't miss a lot. Quite often, these snippets of information are useless in the grand scheme of things; use your time carefully and just try to decrypt the base plot.

    -Simplified Chinese is easier to mtl than Traditional Chinese. There are novels inherently hard to read - those are the traditionally written Chinese novels. The tip here is to not read novels which are written in Traditional Chinese if you're a beginner.

    -The site you choose often has an impact on how your reading experience will plan out. In my opinion, the hierarchy of mtl sites goes like this (from easiest read to hardest): Comrademao > Lnmtl > MTLnovel > base google/bing translate software. If possible, try to find the novel you are trying to read on sites which are towards the left side of the spectrum.

    -Some terms won't be translated. E.g. Daoguo or Rongtian. Learn the base words of CN power fantasy (this tip only applies if you're reading CN cultivation novels btw) like "Tian" sometimes meaning 'heavenly' or "Dao" meaning 'path' or a level of proficiency which is very high.

    -Spear = gun. :/
    I only learned this fact after noticing that there were 'guns' being randomly mentioned in xianxia novels which I mtl'd. Very Important fact you need to learn.

    Welp, that's about the extent of my mediocre knowledge. GL on your mtl journey, friend.
     
  10. The_Follower

    The_Follower Well-Known Member

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    Just gonna respond here that in my experience lnmtl (which seems to be down right now actually which is why I stumbled on this thread) is actually a lot better than the others. The language doesn't flow quite as well as comrademao but their system for translation (they seem to have actual translations of key terms which are highlighted in different colors) and more importantly while mao has better flow, that flow is often at the expense of the sentence's readability. They have more terms and filler between the actual ideas being conveyed, but this filler often ends up being wrong which imo makes it overall harder to understand what they're trying to say. At least that's been my experience. They also translate spear/gun with both (it's written like spear | gun and highlighted so you know it's a translation of one word and you have to figure out which it is by context) whenever it comes up, for the exact reason you put at the end of your comment. For some novels like ED where the concepts are generally super simple comrademao is probably the best, but for most good ones I'd say lnmtl is the way to go. For reference I'm reading CCG through it and I understand 95%+ of lnmtl's translations but checking comrademao most chapters have a couple sentences I can't figure out.
     
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  11. novaes

    novaes Well-Known Member

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    I don't speak Chinese, like at all, but here's my experience.
    • A lot of the time some things are word censored, like **** instead of god, bloody or something like that.
    • get a word replacement addon, like FoxReplace (for firefox). MTL is retarded and often chooses to translate names into 10 different things, just add rules to translate to the one name.
      • eg. sect name is dog vomit mountain, then it's translate as sick dogs on a hill, then (whatever it is in raw chinese), then it might even mess up and go unfaithful palace of godly might, MTL loves to screw this up. obviously this is not a literal example
    • when searching for the RAW, you will find tons of 're-hosting' sites. Sometimes chapters are out of order, sometimes they are missing half a chapter, sometimes they are filled with gibberish. And above all else, they all have an incestuous relationship with each other. Stealing from each other so much nobody can tell what is what, so if one is messed up, a lot tend to be.
    • lnmtl really does seem to be the best, easiest option for straight to english, but it doesn't let you double check the RAW characters to make sure it really is 'dog vomit mountain' and not 'desecrated wolf asses' as the MTL software seemed to think.
    • DeepL is fantastic, but has a character limit per go, and a daily limit of attempts. I think there are other options available but idk, never looked into it
    • lol spear = gun,every time
    • "you must 100,000 not go!" the bigger the number, the more emphasis on not going. It doesn't mean "you must not go 100,00 times", this is a good place to use a word replacer. Numbers are mostly meaningless in chinese novels anyway so accidental replacement of a real number isn't a problem
    • sometimes demon is translated as magic. I don't know why. It's like instead of demonic body filled with demonic power, it's magic body with magic power.
    • if the story is too hard to follow, just give up and move on. It might be written too well for MTL to understand
    • a lot of the reading will be guess work due to being so unintelligible you couldn't understand several chapters in a row and need to work backwards from the later chapters
    • MTL can have huge trouble with cultivation terms "OH NO HE IS AT THE IMMORTAL GOD LEVEL" in one sentence, then the exact same thing is "OH NO HE IS AT THE DIVINE TAGAHATA GRAND ELDER SUPREME LEVEL", it can make it a huge chore to plot out power levels, but this is where raw t/l beats out mtl websites. you can see the actual characters and see they are the same thing
    I haven't found out how to find chinese wikis though. this would help with a lot of stories.
     
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  12. capeSpirit

    capeSpirit Well-Known Member

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    Beware of the characters' names and the used pronouns. This is why I make sure to read the translated chapters first before I mtl the rest of the chapters using Google TL or mtlnovel to remember the characters' names and their relationships with each other. It will fry your brain if you don't know who is who. Most of the time, females will get called as 'he'.

    There are a lot of repeating words (such as cultivation levels, sects,etc) especially if you're reading fantasy,wuxia,xianxia,xuanhuan so make sure to familiarize them and know what each word mean or associated to.


    I skim. A lot. Especially with long,narrative paragraphs, I will just skim it over. They won't affect the fluidity of reading.

    I don't know if this will help but I started mtling novels with modern plots first. They are much easier to understand.

    I hope these will make sense and help. I'm not a native English speaker and I swear my English got worse as I mtl more novels.
     
  13. DiamondInApril

    DiamondInApril Member

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    I was like that at first, hesitant to read MTL cuz of the translation quality, but somehow along the way you just get adept at it - also not mtl is created equal, I've read some mtl that's really not far from the normal translation quality, but of course, these kinda instances aren't common and there are some mtls that I just don't even bother with cuz the translations is just bad

    Plenty of useful advice from previous commenters about the whole pronoun business, the spear = gun and sometimes just skimming a bunch cuz it really doesn't make sense, etc.

    Overall, if the mtl is readable and not that bad, then go for it, I've managed to completely finish some of my favourite novels that way and it's a good way of accessing the whole content without waiting. Bit yh, like I said, not all mtl is created qual, and don't push yourself if it isn't worth it!
     
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  14. Katra1212

    Katra1212 Well-Known Member

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    It depends. There are raws that are easier to MTL, making it readable while there are also really hard to read MTL. It depends on the writing style of the author. Stories that uses a lot of slangs, word play, and idioms, or even proverbs would naturally butcher the plot/story when MTLed. That's the reason why some MTL are so hard to read. Wuxia, xianxia, as well as historical genres are among the complicated ones to MTL. It takes great courage and patience to read them. Also, famous authors tend to use the above factors, a lot. So if you go, for example to jjwxc, the top ranked boasts sophisticated literary use of CN. So stay away from them, and be very particular with your genre. Choose your poison wisely.

    In my opinion, I find baidu and google translate easiest and most readable.

    If you are a patient reader, read at your laptop/computer, then use dictionaries/even baidu search for complicated words. Though, I don't know how others do it, but my mind self-correct the grammar in my head. (Like, this is supposed to be the correct structure; okay, wrong pronoun; or like, a pronoun can be inserted here.) It's almost instinct to me.

    If you are an impatient reader, just skim through if you don't get a particular word, the farther you read will let you connect the meaning of it anyway.

    EDIT: Also, I don't recommend you use lnmtl, jpmtl, etc. Basically, mtl sites that are not edited. In my experience, it's better to find your own raw site, then translate using your chosen machine translator. (Some of the mtls in their site are even more confusing than the one you (will) MTL yourself using the raws.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
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  15. redbull

    redbull Member

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    My suggestion is don't read historical novels. Because in historical novels esp. chinese novels, there's so many namings (titles, objects name, locations) that we won't understand and don't make any sense. Esp. if the author is poetic. It's better to read modern novels because of the easier phrasing. There may be some slang in modern novels, but you will eventually remember some of them after reading so many Chinese novels. It's not like the complicated idiom in historical novels. Pardon my horrible grammar, it's partly bcos i read too much mtl.
     
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  16. LetsNotSleep

    LetsNotSleep Active Member

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    I suggest that you guys should try copy paste the mtl to a grammar checker/corrector. I've been trying it and I think it's slightly bearable for me, there are many websites that you can use online.

    Sorry for the bad English..
     
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  17. Fluffums

    Fluffums 【R-18 Researcher】【Seeker of Moe】

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    Basically, mtl is a combination of both languages which means getting used to mtl is like learning a new language. I recommend using it along with google translate or something similar that gives you the option to check individual words or phrases. I haven't read chinese or korean novels with machine translation, but for Japanese I've noticed the following:

    Names - When a new character is introduced, learn the name and what it means. Especially in Japanese when the same name might mean different things. Like "Haruka" might be google translated into "Haruka", "Haru", "far" or "spring" depending on the characters used and the whim of the program. When there are multiple names in a sentence, it's not rare for them to get mixed up. It's also not rare for gender pronouns to be mixed up when there are multiple names in a paragraph.

    Sentence structure / grammar - Get a general idea of the language's sentence structure - MTL will sometimes change it right, and sometimes leave it unchanged. If you know both, you can judge by context which one it should be. Understand how they use punctuation too, because often quotations and sentences within paragraphs will get mixed up. Japanese (not sure about Chinese/Korean) has a lot of words that are added to the end of a sentence for politeness, and those often get added as new sentences by programs ("boku no namae wa Fluffums desu" might become "My name was Fluffums. It is.")

    Dialects/Slang - When an author goes outside of "standard" Japanese for an accent or extremely formal/ancient way of speaking, a typical translation program won't be able to keep up. For instance, "wara" (feminine "I") becomes "straw", and "washi" (masculine "I") becomes "eagle", and because the program doesn't recognize them as pronouns the sentence structure changes. My suggestion is to avoid stories with main characters from ancient times and stories with strong online/bbs components and such, until you get more used to MTL. For dialects, if a minor side character has one it's okay, but early on avoid stories like Fairy Tale Chronicles where the main character speaks with a heavy accent. Oh, and be aware that programs don't understand onomatopoeia. Laughing like "Haha" becomes "Mother", for instance.

    Errors: Sometimes the program will have no idea what a word is, or the author of the story will make a small mistake that people reading in the original language would understand, or words will streeetch for emphasis and be mistranslated, or the program will just bug out while translating a paragraph and skip half of it. In the first two situations, the context will help, and in the last two it's nice to be able to copy and translate just the word or sentence that gets mixed up.

    With time you will understand most of the common MTL quirks and most stories won't be much worse than reading a normally translated story - unless the author has a terrible writing style and either makes a lot of grammar/spelling mistakes or frequently breaks up words for emphasis ("Da. Ka. Ra." or even worse, they use the method that's supposed to teach you how to read a word and just put dots on top of each individual character for an entire sentence).
     
  18. Violet Blaze

    Violet Blaze Step Red Sibling | Holy Blaze

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    I usually just find a raw or original source of novel then automatically google translate that site.
    Just need to grasp the core of each paragraph and don't make a mistake to recognize a name translation within paragraph.
     
  19. grass_is_tasty

    grass_is_tasty Member

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    The only reason my reading experience has been reasonably good is because I MTL modern novels. Historical novels are hard to understand even when I read their translated versions so there's no hope for historical MTL for me.
    Take my word, no matter how good a historical novel is, it's not worth frying your brains over. At least for now. When you get used to the brain crap that is MTL, you can proceed.

    Other than that, beware that Qiao Qiaos are going to turn into Joe Bridges. Characters do get abrupt sex changes. Your English skill is going to deteriorate.

    For that, I wish you luck mate.
     
  20. Raven Evernight

    Raven Evernight Well-Known Member

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    I need an ocd English teacher as a friend and show them the mtl version and have them fix it for me