Negative Reviews And Why You Should Ignore Them

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Wujigege, May 16, 2019 at 12:24 AM.

  1. userunfriendly

    userunfriendly A Wild Userunfriendly Appears!

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    It’s up to the editor and translator to fulfill the basic obligation they share with the author...to grab the reader’s interest. If it means trying to find “close enough” equivalent to convey to the reader the author’s intent, at the risk of losing the literal translation, for a “close enough” more understandable translation, then that’s what the translator and editor should do.

    I had huge complaints when I went for a more literal translation with One Man Army. They wanted my “fingerprints” with more slang and idiomatic phrasing. It read better, and was preferred over the more literal translation style I tried out.

    As I can’t stand One Piece, I am unable to understand your reference. But I think I got the idea...

    Everybody wants transliteration, despite the supposed “purity” of direct, literal translation. Too close to mtl, so why bother?
     
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  2. Miserys_End

    Miserys_End 「Lv1 Pretend Person」I'm the preson i pretend to be

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    I've always preferred some phrases and expressions left in a semi translated form, I mean about 80% of us all know what itadakimasu, onii-san, onee-chan, and ever prevalent baka! means. And to be honest, only the filthiest of casuals couldn't grasp their means from the context. Besides, unless their main worry is word count, using the above words is so much easier the typing out "thanks for the food", (formal) "Older Brother", (informal) "Older Sister", and stupid/idiot. Translating them also does unfortunate things to the already cramped spacing in the manga text bubbles ...

    On the other hand, pun heavy novels that make use of idioms, alternate or slang forms of kanji symbols or the other phonetic writen languages are damn near impossible to translate due to their incompatibility or even the complete lack of corresponding word or even meaning in other languages. Schadenfreude is the perfect example of a word that needs a phrase of no less the a half dozen words to explain. So it's only natural that pun heavy novels without an extremely good translator is going to suffer in terms of understandable content.
     
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  3. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Subtitles*

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    Well One Piece has surpassed the other members of the big three: Bleach and Naruto for years now.
    I also couldnt stand it because I watched the 4Kids dub which was just bad.
    https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/4Kids_Entertainment
    I think One Piece has a better story than Naruto but it starts slow and isn't as engaging as Naruto or Bleach.
    I would argue it is more character driven instead of action-packed at the beginning.
    It has gotten too long now for my taste and I dropped it because I see no end in sight
    Author might pass away and it wont end
     
  4. userunfriendly

    userunfriendly A Wild Userunfriendly Appears!

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    The translator and I are leaving alone “Daebak” which means jackpot in Korean...its not as well known as the Japanese slangs, but our readers understand.

    I am beginning to understand your attitude toward not wanting to watch an anime series until all the episodes are in...it would suck badly to be that invested in a series and have the creator unable to complete...

    I dropped Robert Jordan as soon as his death was reported...I didn’t start Warlock of Magus World until all the chapters were in...

    Thankfully, my next planned binge Song of Ice and Fire will follow my binge of GOT...:ROFLMAO::blobhero:

    I logged in using my brother’s HBO now account, and after Sunday’s finale, I will binge watch GOT, then read It.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 2:23 AM
  5. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Subtitles*

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    I disagree. When I started watching anime. I didn't understand most of the fan subs.
    I can't read Wortena Senki because it is filled with Japanese phrases.
    He was mocking casuals but that is simply elitist and stupid.
    For new fans of Asian media, all the untranslated words just creates an unnecessary barrier of entry.
    ask.fm/ANNZac/answers/124947950281
     
  6. userunfriendly

    userunfriendly A Wild Userunfriendly Appears!

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    It’s one word. We’ve been translating the others, and we offer the translation of the word in every new chapter. Our readers seem ok with it.;)
     
  7. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Subtitles*

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    I get it, but it is usually more than one word for Japanese translations.
    Took me a while to understand that Koreans weren't fighting but " fighting"(wishing good luck)
    They weren't making a phone call but a "call" (deal)
     
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  8. Miserys_End

    Miserys_End 「Lv1 Pretend Person」I'm the preson i pretend to be

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    o_O I have no issue reading wortena because of translation, its choice of wording, or its translators. I have an issue with the author's complete lack of progress in this last "ark" and a half. It's been completely full of POV inner monologue chapters rehashing the same information and teasers where the dialogue is sparse or the chapter would just fucking end as they start talking. Not to be outdone, the author then goes right back to more introspective chapters rehashing the same shit a third or fifth time in yet more inner monologues......... *continues to rant offline for another 15 minutes*

    .......... *cough*

    Anyway, I found no issue with the translation, the word choice, understanding what was written nor an issue with the translators release rate. I would hazard a guess it was more your general dislike of reading and preference of live action dramas that killed your intrest in the series.
     
  9. userunfriendly

    userunfriendly A Wild Userunfriendly Appears!

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    That’s why I always edit “fighting” with something else...and I included the translator notes for “deal”. Had I been editing Wortena you would have had a much better time...:whistle::whistle::whistle::D:p
     
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  10. Kuro_0ni

    Kuro_0ni Looking forward to the Summer

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    Translating nuance is always a challenge. And like what many previous responses mentioned. It's up to the Translator/editor to catch those things.

    The original language may use one word and the target language uses a sentence. It's the translators best judgment in the nuance of understanding. Usually its an editors duty to make sure the flow of the overall context is saved an not lost in the process.

    For the standard MTL without edits, a lot is lost on nuance. Puns, jokes, idioms, etc.

    But at the same time there is a cult following for poor translations or transliteration. The memes out there are hilarious. But I digress.

    Here's to me hoping for more people to join the challenge of translating and making more content for the community. Despite the adversity of negative feedback.
     
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  11. Paps

    Paps Well-Known Member

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    hmmm....interesting:hmm::hmm::hmm:
     
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  12. joey183

    joey183 Well-Known Member

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    I'm all totally okay with some phrases written in their original language like baka, wang fei, or daebak since I can kind of know their meaning from the rest of the paragraph. Maybe it's because I've been watching my anime in raw with eng sub as I don't like watching anime's in dub since a lot is lost and westernise that it felt like the story has been butchered.
     
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  13. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Subtitles*

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    I beg to differ. A good dub is better than the best subtitle.
    There is a reason Japanese movies and dramas are not very popular
    When the novelty of the moe anime characters, and the eroge cannot be used in live action, it loses all the appeal
     
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  14. Cygsiulle

    Cygsiulle error 404: title not found

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    i tend to prefer full translations where possible. in the context of words with multiple/deep meanings, or words that've just been adopted, i'm fine leaving them as is. for words where complete translations are possible, then they should be translated (provided appropriate grammatical and contextual adjustments are made). keeping words untranslated because "they just sound cute", or it would require more effort to fix the sentence structure than they're willing to put in, just sort of hurts the experience (the first more so than the second). on the topic of "cute", i especially dislike seeing things like "baka" or "kawaii" substituted into CN or KR works when and where they don't belong. if the character happens to actually use those borrowed terms, i can understand it, as it's a second language being inserted into the novel and would remain true to the novel. however, if it's the TL just deciding to "spice things up" by using them when those words show up, then that's unacceptable. as for such words in japanese works, although i'm familiar enough to know what they are, it's still an awkward jump, when the words can be completely translated. "i don't want pick a word the author didn't specifically imply/say" rings sort of hollow given some of the other "improvements" they might make from time to time.

    as for reviews in general, i almost never take them at their word, and tend to get much more out of negative reviews than the positive ones. given my rather cynical view on just trying to find something tolerable, 50 reviews of "this is so awesome, you have to read it!" is far less insightful than a single review criticizing the plot holes, MC's personality, tendencies, and the side characters. i look at those and think "well, i think i could probably tolerate reading that.", and off i go to chapter 1. if the reviews are mostly about how horrible the translations are, or how bad the novel starts off, which are eventually offset by claims of "but they get better around chapter 50-100", i'm still not gonna bother. not touching a novel i'm gonna hate reading for a week or more, and i've already put up with one novel's god awful MTL garbage first arc, never doing that shit again. if it's hurting their views that much, then maybe they should go back over the chapters and do some damned editing.
     
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  15. joey183

    joey183 Well-Known Member

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    When i first started watching anime, I was watching it in dub that was aired on my local TV. At that time, I was all in for Dub but unfortunately dub version were rarely found online, so I begin to watch it in raw with eng srt of course. And to my surprise, I found watching it in their original language much more enjoyable than dub because you get to hear the emotions of the seiyu (voice actor) plus you can also learn some of their language at the same time. Watching in dub would have taken those experience away.

    From then on, all my anime have been raw + eng srt. And I started to do the same thing when I watched chinese and korean dramas too. I've also watched a couple of japanese drama which are really good as well. Maybe the reason why japanese drama isn't popular could be because most are just adaption from manga and anime which I would have already read/watch before so there's not much suspense.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019 at 4:11 AM
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  16. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Subtitles*

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    Dubbing is a very large market that is why American TV shows are dubbed into Spanish and Spanish shows dubbed into English.
    It is simply an elitist culture promoted by anime fandom.
    You have some who are so crazy that they insult crunchyroll for sullying the purity of the anime but translating every single word.
    Subtitles is an acquired taste, TV shows like Friends get dubbed into Italian , German etc.
    I understand where people are coming from but shows like Cowboy Bepop and Black Lagoon that are set in the U.S are worse when consumed via subtitles.
    You also have European works adapted into anime eg Radiant, there is no way it is better as a sub
    Subtitles are not that great unless the subber is native in both languages which they hardly are
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019 at 5:09 AM
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  17. joey183

    joey183 Well-Known Member

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    Errr...are you for or against dubbing? It's hard to infer from your comment. Anyway, I like raws so I can be considered to be against dubbing. I won't go as far as to say dubbing is 'sullying the purity of anime' but I do feel sometimes that when an anime/manga/novel becomes westernize, some of the original culture of the story becomes lost.

    I was into CN, JP and KR because it was different from western novel in the sense that Asian novel are more conservative and traditional in nature than western stories, so I find it interesting. Also reading CN, JP and KR helps me to understand what it's like to live in that country, so when the story gets westernize, that sense becomes lost as well.
     
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  18. TiggerBane

    TiggerBane Always asleep yep yep yep| Canidae lover

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    For me this has always been the most annoying part of reading japanese light novels and anime subtitles that I'm willing to deal with XD. I understand why translated manga use it and have no problem with it here because sizing of the sentences matters a lot due to the medium. But I just get annoyed when simple words with English equivalents get left in Japanese rather than being in English. Most annoying of these is when younger brother/sister is used but then for the older brother/sister onne-chan/onee-san are used. upload_2019-5-17_12-53-32.jpeg
     
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  19. Miserys_End

    Miserys_End 「Lv1 Pretend Person」I'm the preson i pretend to be

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    See... light novel or translated webnovels that are full of "big sister, big sister" or it's big brother equivalent does the same for me. Onii-sama is just so much simpler to read.
     
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  20. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*Generous Penny-Pincher*Subtitles*

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    I am not against dubbing or for it.
    I am just aware that contrary to what a minority of loud voices believe.
    Dubbing is a lot more popular than subbing..
    Dubbing doesn't lead to any more being lost in translation than subbing.
    It is simply a preference for hearing a Japanese voice. I personally believe that it stems from Adult game fetish and nothing artistic.
    The average dub of course doesn't use superstars like subs do, so it will certainly be lesser quality.
    But on westernizing the story, it is not really a strong argument when you have works like Full Metal Alchemist that is actually set in Europe and not Japan
     
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