Discussion Nihonkoku Shoukan 'helicopter destroyer'

It was the same with pre-WWII Washington and London Naval Treaties.
Those imposed limits on tonnage and guns of ships, but with a creative use of numbers in the official documentation, those could be skirted, like the pocket battleships. Because whose going to weight a 10,000 ton warship, right?

 

Would it be better then if they called it a carrier and ended up with no ship at all?
They have their own problems and this is just a way to bypass them. It's so easy to backseat drive when you're not expected to deliver results.

This is part of their Constitution:
ARTICLE 9. (1) Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes.
(2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

So if they classed it as a carrier, they cannot build it due to [and, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained]. Technically the current JSDF is actually counted as part of the police force.

 

So was the German Leichttractor, go wiki it up. They were banned from developing tanks post WWI so they called their "tank" a "light tractor". With a 3.7cm cannon. Farming was so difficult then lol.

 

The military always has to dance around politics. For the pocket battleships, they skirted the issue by designing within the limits, at 10k, but equipping them with larger guns which, at the time, were the one major thing unrestricted. When a negotiated settlement couldnt be reached, because of french opposition, the allies could do nothing to stop them because the ships were ostensibly within the limitations. Of course, when things are built and developed like ships things tend to change. It was the same with the Admiral Hipper class cruisers.

There was also the grosstraktor with a 75mm.

 

Yeah which is why the OP specifically picking on Japan is rather strange. Why not FU Russia, it's not an "aviation cruiser" but a carrier or FU USA, it's not an "LHD/LHA" but a carrier? It's not like they're the only country playing games with classification systems. Or maybe he did not know that?

 

Well, the Deutschland-class emty displacement ranged from almost 11k tons to over 12k, and up to about 16k fully loaded.
The Germans insisted the ships are within limitations and the Allies could not prove them otherwise (nor were they willing to risk another serious conflict so soon after the Great War), which is what mattered in the end.

But yeah, it was always like this.

 

I know lots of countries played with classification. What grind my gears was just how the LN portrayed it, combined with the recent plan to fit F-35.

I understand the play with words and classification to skirt around restrictions. But damn... Everyone knows what they really are.

 

1. well... its a light novel, not a millitary book, expect to take a dose of salt

2. not everyone know, especially politician, my friend who was in the army told me, technically that country dont have an army, they are civil servant lol

 

You sure? lol.
If you wanted to be serious about their classification, they're classed as a "Sea Control Ship", not carrier. Their job is area denial, not air superiority. Your term "carrier" by itself is very loose and imprecise. It's like saying "A pistol is a gun. A machine gun is a gun", while true, it is also very general and misleading when it comes to roles.

Treat the story like it is, light entertainment. Not that you're very well versed in the military either considering that you lumped an ASW ship with an all up fleet carrier.

 

True that. I'm no expert and it was just entertainment. I didn't count Izumo as a fleet carrier though, just a helicopter carrier, refitting to light/escort carrier at most. I admit I didn't know the term sea control ship.

But after a quick google it turns out my country actually has a sea control ship, though we classified it as helicopter carrier and is the only carrier we have. (And probably why I didn't recognize it as SCS) It WAS capable of supporting V/STOL aircraft and WAS classified as a light carrier (I even got to board it once when I was young and it was still a light carrier) Not anymore though. Also the smallest carrier in the world.

But yeah, I did used the term loosely and I shouldn't have been too serious.

 

Ah yes, Thailand I bet lol.
Though if you insist any ship carrying aircraft as a "carrier", then the smallest carrier would be the Offshore Patrol Vessels that have a helipad, like the Knud Rasmussen class or the Chinese Haixun class cutters.

 

Yup, Thailand. Financial problems make maintaining that ship a real problem. Many consider the ship ''not worth it" considering the military power in the region. But it has done well in disaster relief missions which is probably the only mission it would get involved.

But nah. I won't consider any ship carring aircraft a carrier. Plenty of ships carry helicopters too. Helicopters on destroyer and patrol ships are pretty common. I would only consider ships with primary role of carrying and service aircrafts a carrier.

 

There you've hit upon one of the defining points of the 'carrier' line. The ability to service and store aircrafts and not just act as a floating runway. the layperson sees a big ship with helicopters and planes thus automatically assumes 'carrier'.
A true carrier is more a floating airport, with all that entails, which is why arguments to call the Izumo as actual carriers is semantics by clueless people.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, some people will think it's a goose.