[Poll] Justice and Sexual Violence

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by lychee, Sep 12, 2019.

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Which Oracle orb would you prefer that the World Government take?

  1. Orb A: 100% sensitive 60% specific

    1 vote(s)
    1.2%
  2. Orb B: 95% sensitive 65% specific

    2 vote(s)
    2.3%
  3. Orb C: 90% sensitive 70% specific

    2 vote(s)
    2.3%
  4. Orb D: 80% sensitive 80% specific

    2 vote(s)
    2.3%
  5. Orb E: 70% sensitive 90% specific

    6 vote(s)
    7.0%
  6. Orb D: 65% sensitive 95% specific

    2 vote(s)
    2.3%
  7. Orb F: 60% sensitive 100% specific

    28 vote(s)
    32.6%
  8. I like our current justice system better

    3 vote(s)
    3.5%
  9. I don't like our current justice system, but these magic orbs aren't the answer

    35 vote(s)
    40.7%
  10. No opinion

    5 vote(s)
    5.8%
  1. scribbledoutname

    scribbledoutname Well-Known Member

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    100% specific. That's (largely) how things are done now.

    It sucks that bad people get away, but you can't simply start imprisoning people because it seems like they may have done something. It's like arresting the closest person because you couldn't find a murderer. "Hey, buddy. Someone stole this thing, and we don't know for sure that it was you, but since it seems LIKELY that you did it and we'll be unhappy if we don't catch the culprit, you're going to jail for life."

    People aren't all-seeing gods, so we have no choice but to account for this. Yes, we want to punish criminals, but we can't do that at the expense of fairness. It's a different kind of evil to utterly destroy someone's life because you were just guessing.
     
  2. replay

    replay ★Milk and Honey smelling Merchant★

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    when I was young rape is what you call on an forced sexual intercourse without the consent of the victim. . . .
    and hell even here in our country, that kind of thing is still called rape. . . .
    and most cases are people who went out and have a drink and party with other people who they don't even know. . .
    and well I understanding mingling and looking for friendship, but hell if suddenly you are invited for a drink and you went with it drinking till you drop. . .then that's just plain being stupid, for me that is,
     
  3. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    Huuuh, this is actually the most confusing reply I never expected to see.

    This doesn't work if you apply it to "murder".

    Murder didn't happen if there's no evidence of it? :blobdizzy::blobdizzy::blobdizzy::blobdizzy::blobdizzy:

    But someone died.... whether or not a body was found... there's a dead cat in the box!

    A legal charge of murder is very different from whether murder occurred (outside the boundaries of the definition in law)
     
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  4. SummerForest

    SummerForest Well-Known Member

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    A legal charge of murder is very different from that of rape.
     
  5. KizunaAi

    KizunaAi Cookie Lover ~ I love fuwa fuwa dolls ~

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  6. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    Rape isn't exclusively defined within the boundaries of law.

    It's also defined within the boundaries of linguistics, culture, and is a concept that transcends any particular legal system.
     
  7. SummerForest

    SummerForest Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to the judiciary the only thing that matters is the premises of law.
     
  8. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    But then the murder example applies again.

    If a body isn't found, then you're saying that a murder never happened.
     
  9. Kurotsubaki

    Kurotsubaki Reincarnation of the Seven Deadly Sins

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    World goverment will capture the magical girl and take all the orb, duh. Then they will do some research to the poor magical girl and use all the orb to compare the result
     
  10. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    Or to put it another way, acquittal during a trial (verdict: "not guilty") does not imply that someone is innocent.

    This is precisely the case when you have a legal system that is high specificity rather than sensitivity.
     
  11. Sherrynity

    Sherrynity I see no God up there… other than the chaotic void

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    A set of moral value called Justice is dependent on the society the rule is applied. Authority created the rules based on the values their people believe, or in some cases they're what the Authority think their people believe.

    A faulty justice system is imperfect but an imperfect justice system might not be faulty.
    Absolute justice is heartless, and that's why we need human.

    Solely relying on a disco ball that can blink, by all means, cannot represents the imperfection of the justice our people believe, and therefore such method should never be used. It's done to protect the justice from becoming completely heartless.

    ... btw the fuck did I write?
     
  12. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    :blobsmilehappyeyes: It's very profound, I like it! Thank you for your insight!
     
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  13. SummerForest

    SummerForest Well-Known Member

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    Yes. To prove ultimately, a body is required
     
  14. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    But that doesn't change the fact of whether a murder genuinely occurred in reality.

    The reality of the situation is completely ignorant of the court of law.
     
  15. Liron

    Liron Well-Known (Failed) Prophet

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    But that is not the point here, is it? In the scenario you spoke of, it ended up in a trial of sorts with the orbs, with consequences dictated by a court of law. Apply that to murder and a body needs to be found for that scenario to even occur, otherwise it is just a missing person. At the very least there needs to be very concrete evidence that a murder most likely happened for it to go to trial without a body found, like in Gone Girl. And that example by itself also proves why that is not perfect by any means.

    And on the matter of the definition of rape, what ultimately counts is what the law consider rape. There might be loopholes and ambiguity in it, but without hard evidence or precedent of a certain interpretation, the accused will always have upper hand in those small disputes. If someone considers rape to be anything other than what is stated in law, they are wrong. If they disagree with the law they can always try to change it. Case in point: “retroactive rape”, when someone retroactively disavows their previously given consent after the deed was done (which is simply ridiculous to be honest, but seems to be a thing in certain circles).
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  16. Zomula

    Zomula Well-Known Member

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    A few questions.
    1) Could the color of the orb change for a person if they touch it a second time? (ex:innocent person touches orb A and gets red. If he touches it again could he get green?)
    2) Why can't both orbs A and F be implemented simultaneously?

    Depending on the answer for question 1 this could be used to help clear up the unreliability in the orbs a and f. If the answer is no then what is the point in these orbs they are useless unless it is the person's first time being accused.
     
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  17. SummerForest

    SummerForest Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
    You require to find the body and preferably, the murder weapon, too.
     
  18. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    The point I was trying to go for was that objective reality is a thing.

    Summer seemed to be arguing that rape doesn't happen in the absence of evidence or witnesses.

    But that makes zero sense to me.

    If someone was murdered, they were murdered, regardless if a body or murder implement was found.

    I'm not a religious person, but there is the argument that the mortal human justice system is flawed. Our justice system makes mistakes. Religious people often say that God will rectify this once people die.

    From the Wikipedia article on Miscarriage of Justice, an estimated 2-5% of convicted US prisoners are thought to be innocent. The advent of DNA testing technology has allowed many people to be acquitted from crimes they did not commit, but were initially convicted for.

    I find it really strange that you guys seem to be defining immutable concepts such as murder or rape exclusively through the lens of the the legal system when it's already well known that a jury can arrive at the wrong conclusions. Summer's argument also implies that somebody legally convicted of murder must certainly be a murderer, regardless of the true reality of the situation.
     
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  19. aegis062

    aegis062 Chaotic Demon Emperor

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    I think it would be much easier to just add some kind of yes/no sensor that immediately notifies the cops of your position if rape has occurred when you confirmed no. while there is possibility that you might have gun to your head and where forced to press yes they can maybe establish a code word that establishes coercion. <---too imperfect but it can help. but there might be innocent victims with the code word maybe a finger print verification or retina scan of both participants, but this would make sex feel monitored. there really isn't a perfect way to prevent rape. best solution would be taking self defense and carry self defense weapon to increase chance of protecting yourself.
     
  20. KurouDaijuji

    KurouDaijuji Well-Known Member

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    A fact you ignore in the OP when you state the claims about the validity of the Orbs results can verified by comparing it to a pool of results which is inherently, objectively, inaccurate (containing "False Positives", with no way of validating that the Orbs are catching all of them, or even that those identified by the Orbs are indeed false).