[Poll] Justice and Sexual Violence

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by lychee, Sep 12, 2019.

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Which Oracle orb would you prefer that the World Government take?

  1. Orb A: 100% sensitive 60% specific

    1 vote(s)
    1.2%
  2. Orb B: 95% sensitive 65% specific

    2 vote(s)
    2.4%
  3. Orb C: 90% sensitive 70% specific

    2 vote(s)
    2.4%
  4. Orb D: 80% sensitive 80% specific

    2 vote(s)
    2.4%
  5. Orb E: 70% sensitive 90% specific

    6 vote(s)
    7.1%
  6. Orb D: 65% sensitive 95% specific

    2 vote(s)
    2.4%
  7. Orb F: 60% sensitive 100% specific

    27 vote(s)
    31.8%
  8. I like our current justice system better

    3 vote(s)
    3.5%
  9. I don't like our current justice system, but these magic orbs aren't the answer

    35 vote(s)
    41.2%
  10. No opinion

    5 vote(s)
    5.9%
  1. Juju48

    Juju48 Member

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    I also think it’s about making less criminals. I think a better train of thought would be to help reduce crime by providing ways to help those who need it before they hurt someone.
    With the increased availability of porn, the number of sex crimes drop. It provides people an outlet, forcing fewer to seek after detrimental behavior. This works for more than just sex crimes. Drug addicts that have safe places to use and clean sources for the drug are much Less likely to continue using.
    We aren’t all the same. It’s easy to label someone that exhibits behavior we don’t understand as bad. Simply prosecuting them will never actually solve the problems.
     
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  2. Shtirliz

    Shtirliz Active Member

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    Well. First came problem of infographic where innocent is just 2 people out of hundreds rapist. It's so much far from trurh that It's not even a bull shit, it's more like a giant elefant shit. The situation where a man wrongly accused of rape is too much out of hand in modern society. Just recently some stupid attention-hungry femenist accused a man(Alex Holowka) that he first locked her up in house and then raped her, and that she was miraculously escaped from him with help of her friend. After that man was fired from work, his life was broken and he commited suicide. There was not any evidience except her twitt, some mass media already found that it was all a lie from start to end, futhermore she was fully aware that he had mentality problems and was suicidal. What would happen to her? Nothing, because in modern society women have right to accuse men of rape and would not get anything if their lie is exposed. Almost all these "rapist that walked free" lets be frank - they should be called "innocent people", not "rapist". The fact thet someone has guts to call all of these people "rapist" already clearly indicate about writer one-sided position.
    About question - of course ideal system should never blame a innocent even if some of offenders would walk away.
     
  3. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    Actually, I totally agree with you, in the sense that I generally think of myself as a relativist in terms of my personal philosophy.

    It might seem kind of weird that I'm talking so much about "objective reality" then! XDD

    Frankly, it's mostly because the OP is framed from a mathematical/statistical model.

    Even if nobody can know the objective truth, in statistics we say that the mathematical population mean exists, even if nobody knows the number.

    Consequently, we utilize statistics to reach an estimate of the population mean, and use fancy formulas to assess how close our estimate is to the true population mean that nobody knows for sure.
     
  4. Traveling Chef

    Traveling Chef ⁽ʕ•̀ω•́ʔ╯.+:。Professional Unichef~

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    firstly, did you mean African Americans :cookie:

    and secondly, no and yes. when you are involving people into an equation, no matter how precise the machine, it can never be 100%. it's going to have a margin of error(and I do realize that with learning machine that margin will be fairly small at some point) but like the story, I mentioned the machine should never be allowed to wholly decide the case.

    it's like self-driving cars, even if the car is given everything it needs to reasonably be sure of everything on the road I think there should still be a person behind the wheel, so when the inevitable .0001% chance the machine thinks everything is fine( or god forbid that everything is going wrong) there is a person to at least throw in a judgment to make sure everything is going good from a humans perspective.
     
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  5. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    Yeah, I mean, I really don't know!

    I'm sort of a data-driven person so it's impossible for me to judge without seeing the data first.

    Usually I look at the outcomes and decide after that.

    If it's the case that self-driving cars saves dramatically more lives than human-driving cars, I feel like my opinion could shift.

    If one of the options saves tons of lives, to me that kind of matters regardless of what kind of black box programming goes into the self-driving cars.
     
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  6. Anra7777

    Anra7777 Title got too long; please see signature.

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    I’m reminded a bit of an interview I read a couple years ago in a legal magazine. I remember the journalist interviewed several (unconvicted?) college rapists. Most of the rapists believed they hadn’t committed rape, but admitted readily that they’d had non-consensual sex. It makes me wonder how surprised these men would be when the orb found them guilty. Or how many rapists have this same sort of cognitive dissonance.
     
  7. Traveling Chef

    Traveling Chef ⁽ʕ•̀ω•́ʔ╯.+:。Professional Unichef~

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    A similar example of what you're talking about is the movie Minority Report starring Tom Cruise. they had psychics that could predict murderers before they commit the crime and they would arrest these people in the name of Precrimes. but they find out there are three "precogs" and sometimes, one of the precogs has a different vision of the future called by the Justice Department in the movie as a "Minority Report" (read Margin of error) these minority reports are largely ignored because only one of the three saw it, so it must be wrong.
     
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  8. Juju48

    Juju48 Member

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    The other big problem with the info traffic is that it reflects the most likely rapes rate for our current political climate. It can not reflect the jailing and reporting rates in a different climate. By changing the system the climate would change and therefore the reporting and jailing rate. Right now it says that only a small number of people are falsely accused. If reporting rules change, that could also change dramatically.
    I had a number of friends get pregnant by their boyfriends. Because I lived in a population that was against pre marital sex they told their parents they were raped. It was easy. If all those friends of mine had reported the incident as rape, or their parents did, there would be many more false accused.
     
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  9. Traveling Chef

    Traveling Chef ⁽ʕ•̀ω•́ʔ╯.+:。Professional Unichef~

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    that's the problem with involving Squishies
    (read: People) with machines( or magic orbs) people(individually) are incredibly unpredictable. whereas people(as a group) are very much predictable. basing your decisions off of statistics(that are properly researched and peer-reviewed) of what people do as a whole isn't wrong. but going on a case by case bases, to put it in laymen, people are wack yo~ you never know what's going to happen.
     
  10. SummerForest

    SummerForest Sadness. Happiness. Togetherness.

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    Some other points to be considered.
    1. Rape is sometimes a form of punishment inflicted towards a person who doesn't conform to the prevalent 'norms' of a society.

    2. In case of 'gang rape' sometimes it's like a pack of hounds chasing and killing a prey.

    3. A person with superiority complex venting their frustration on a relatively 'weaker' person.
    Any thoughts upon these?
     
  11. Traveling Chef

    Traveling Chef ⁽ʕ•̀ω•́ʔ╯.+:。Professional Unichef~

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    I don't think you were asking me but I'll throw in my "2 cents"

    1. is disgusting and any "society" that finds sexually assaulting a person a "fitting punishment" is as guilty of the crimes as the rapist.

    2. is still rape, and every person involved should be convicted as such. claim mob mentality all they want, they chose to force a person to have sex.

    3. see answer 1. except "is disgusting and any "person" (read as Garbage) that finds sexually assaulting a person against their will an appropriate act for "Venting their Frustration" is as guilty as the gang rapists.

    couldn't tell you how the orb would judge it but this unicorn right here says *GUILTY!*:blobtriumph:
     
  12. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    Um, I think if you polled a variety of different people you would probably get an array of different responses that could differ slightly from individual to individual.

    How this gets digested into a universal justice system is sort of interesting -- I guess it's just the average of everyone's beliefs?

    @.@ I know it sounds like I'm being evasive at directly answering the question, but knowing you I feel like there's more layers to this! Like the unicorn said, I think all of those things are really bad!!!!!!! It's really unpleasant to think about and I think it's important for society to come up with ways to prevent those things from happening.

    But how "bad" translates into "guilty" is sort of an ambiguous topic I'm not quite sure how to answer!
     
  13. Traveling Chef

    Traveling Chef ⁽ʕ•̀ω•́ʔ╯.+:。Professional Unichef~

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    I would also like to point out that:
    2. and 3. if the "criminal(s)" and "victim(s)" are both consenting to the act itself but from the outside, it "appears" wrong, then I don't have a problem with it. what Consenting adults do in their off time is of no concern to me, even if I find rape to be one of the most morally reprehensible acts one can commit and I would never be party to it even if it's just a fantasy. but if that's what they are into, then who am I to judge.

    1. is still the most disgusting thing I can think of outside of purposely robbing a child of their innocence(like abuse, killing, sexually assaulting, or any other act to purposefully traumatize a child.)
    and any society that thinks 1. is A-ok! in their books needs to go the way of Pompei
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  14. SummerForest

    SummerForest Sadness. Happiness. Togetherness.

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    Yeah the concept of justice in itself is relative and ambiguous. There are men who think that when a self-willed and assertive woman is raped she kinda brings it upon herself by wearing 'provocative' dresses or going out alone or having male friends.

    To them, it's a form of punishment.

    Don't you know that the soldires of the winning army inevitably rape girls of the defeated side as a form of revenge and punishment to be inflicted upon the defeated people?
    Will such type of sexual violence be justifiable?
     
  15. Anra7777

    Anra7777 Title got too long; please see signature.

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    I remember reading a manga which started out as BG, but became increasingly GL over time. The MC’s older brother was extremely abusive of her and I think wanted either to rape or kill her. At one point he gets kidnapped by a corrupt police officer, who keeps him captive and rapes and tortures him daily. The manga seems to portray the police officer as a disgusting deviant (with the possible implication that all male gays are disgusting), while at the same time portraying the rape of the brother as something we should be cheering for and something he totally deserves.

    This was one of the reasons I stopped reading. It was just too morally reprehensive.
     
  16. SummerForest

    SummerForest Sadness. Happiness. Togetherness.

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    In 2 and 3 the victim is VICTIM. Certain psychologists compared the mentality of men involving in gang rape to a pack of hounds baying after a prey and demanding a share of the kill. It's essentially disturbing, but I think there's some truth in this view.
     
  17. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    I mean, to me, none of those things are justifiable.

    But I also get what you're saying in that some cultures view these kinds of things are normal, as horrible as it is. ;-;

    This is actually an area where I feel like the boundaries of my personal philosophy are tested. For instance, ordinarily I believe that it's not good to project my values (e.g. Western values) onto other cultures or individuals.... but it's hard to hear things like this and not have an opinion. To me, honestly all of it just seems bad. T-T It's hard for me to imagine circumstances where people (from both genders) would just accept all of that.
     
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  18. SummerForest

    SummerForest Sadness. Happiness. Togetherness.

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    XD there is this story of a Jewish Russian commander punishing his soldiers for rapeing German girls and being criticised.
    Who was right in this case?
    There is this concept of torture in some places where male criminals are subjected to sexual violence by insertion of blunt objects into their body. Isn't it too disgusting? It should be classified as rape, too.
    But enough of such depressing topics. I'll go off now.
    This is why I want the concept of rape to be abolished and rape to be treated as a heinous act of violence.
     
  19. Traveling Chef

    Traveling Chef ⁽ʕ•̀ω•́ʔ╯.+:。Professional Unichef~

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    God, I hope not. if it is I want a new Magical Orb to rule us, the one we got is broken~
    god am I glad I have never come across that manga before, I would like to see the criminals who can be reformed given help and not stigmatized for their crimes, while the criminals who can't or won't be reformed get their "just desserts" but I do not advocate causing suffering or undue harm. I don't like Capital punishment but unlike all those people in the manga and novel sections who think "MC should have ripped his arms off and shoved them up his butt" I prefer a quick and painless a death for "people" like say, Charles Manson.

    well if they are Victims then I couldn't care less about the "people" involved in raping them or those "peoples" mentality. when dogs get a taste for violence against people they are almost always "put down". and as i don't see the perpetrators of 2 and 3 as anything more than animals, they should be treated as such.

    this confuses me not gonna lie
     
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  20. SummerForest

    SummerForest Sadness. Happiness. Togetherness.

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    My friend, the act of physical violence is easier to be proved in a court of law than rape. There are many layers of prejudices and stigmas involved with the concept of rape, but in case of physical violence they are not.
     
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