[Poll] You are a dragon egg...

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by lychee, Nov 29, 2019.

?

Will you telepathically contact anyone to ask for help?

  1. I'm male - I will contact the Farmer

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  2. I'm male - I will contact the Farmer's Wife

    2 vote(s)
    4.5%
  3. I'm male - I will contact the Eldest Son

    2 vote(s)
    4.5%
  4. I'm male - I will contact the Middle Daughter

    2 vote(s)
    4.5%
  5. I'm male - I will contact the Youngest Son

    7 vote(s)
    15.9%
  6. I'm male - I would keep waiting for someone better, even if it is risky

    6 vote(s)
    13.6%
  7. I'm male - I would keep waiting and hope I'm not discovered

    3 vote(s)
    6.8%
  8. I'm male - I'm unsure

    5 vote(s)
    11.4%
  9. I'm female - I will contact the Farmer

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. I'm female - I will contact the Farmer's Wife

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. I'm female - I will contact the Eldest Son

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  12. I'm female - I will contact the Middle Daughter

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  13. I'm female - I will contact the Youngest Son

    3 vote(s)
    6.8%
  14. I'm female - I would keep waiting for someone better, even if it is risky

    4 vote(s)
    9.1%
  15. I'm female - I would keep waiting and hope I'm not discovered

    4 vote(s)
    9.1%
  16. I'm female - I'm unsure

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  17. I do not wish to respond

    2 vote(s)
    4.5%
  1. sal880612m

    sal880612m As I thought, love was a status effect! ~ICDS

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    There is a need to appear intelligent and make the farmer appreciate it. If all you act as is a beast there is no reason to maintain you as you are and not get you brainwashed. The idea is to appeal to him as a tool or way to implement his will while making him understand and appreciate that something intelligent is more useful than a beast of burden. If he questions why I would serve and not turn on him, there is simply no reason to. As a dragon I will outlive him and likely by more than a couple hundred years so spending 60-100 years honoring my bargain is roughly the equivalent of helping out around the house as you would when you are a child. If he seems offended by the fact that I will outlive him I would point out that so would his children and that my situation isn't one of looking down on him just that I was born later and can't help that I will likely outlive him. If after I hatch I can take human form I would try to as much as possible around the farmer and the family if I am revealed to them as well.

    "The unfortunate reality is that like your other children, I will outlive you. More so, by more than a few years or decades. Due to the nature of my species honoring my deal with you is comparable to your daughter and second son helping around the farm as needed until they are married off or set off to find their own way. It is only natural for a child to help their parent(s) while they are young and dependent on them, is it not?"

    Something like that.
     
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  2. SilverCrow63

    SilverCrow63 Well-Known Member

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    For the more narrow minded people, I can see that causing resentment. It's the same reason why some bosses don't like an employee that is more capable then them. A tool that's smarter than it's master is risky. There's a need to seem smart but with a weakness the farmer can take advantage of so that he feels like he is in control or he might just plot to get rid of you. It's not too good to seem smarter than the farmer.

    It is logical that you will outlive him but that farmer will not appreciate this sort of logic. It will remind him of his mortality and weakness. “Like your children will leave and outlive you, I will too but I have only benefits for you as long as you live.” If this farmer was a balanced decent kind of person, he can accept that but if he is not he will think “Why do you get to live well after I die? You're just a tool” and things will get ugly. People who deny their weakness cope by being cruel to others especially if he is a sadist.

    It's the same reason why an emperor refuses to pass the throne to his sons even knowing that he will eventually die. A king kills his consorts and servants to stay with him after his death. People are buried with their riches.
    Those with power do not like the idea that they will have to give it up. The decent sort can accept their mortality but those that can not.... they would rather destroy it than give it up. It's truly ugly.

    It would be nice if I was wrong and the farmer is not this kind of human.
     
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  3. AryaX

    AryaX Less-Known Member

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    Is it truly desirable to stay among the living in this hypothetical world? Since reincarnation is a thing and you already know it is a thing, wouldn't it be better to just let your puny fake dragon self die and get reincarnated somewhere else?
     
  4. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    So I used to teach a class to 7-10 year old boys similar to the one in the OP and... I just can't imagine trusting them with my life.

    :blobsweat_2::blobsweat_2::blobsweat_2:

    It's just such a hard sell for me.

    A lot of people have been saying that nobody would "believe" the boy, but being doubted is only likely to cause him to insist that he's telling the truth! And then I have this horrible vision that he's going to run around showing me to everyone and bringing his friends to see his egg. In my headcanon, dragon eggs are larger than your conventional chicken eggs, so I think most people would be suspicious and wonder what the heck it was. Since dragon's aren't fantasy creatures in this universe, someone is bound to guess that... at least before they guess it's an ostrich egg.

    The second point is that I think it would be hard to maintain the kid's interest. Hyperactive boys like him usually have low attention spans, and getting him to promise to wait five years. Can you imagine telling a kid they need to wait five years? Most can't even wait thirty minutes lol! Attention span will totally evaporate!

    The last point for me is that 7-10 year boys are rapidly growing and maturing. Every single year, they are a different person. Most people are wildly different between age 10 and age 15. Lots of boys are jerks and brats as kids, and a majority of them grow out of that phase. To me, he's so normal that I have no idea what kind of person he'll be like in one or two years. For all you know, he might become serious like his brother once he starts high school.

    - - -

    The middle girl is my automatic choice because I probably relate to her most. :blobupset:

    My reading of her is that she's weird and has weird interests, and is likely lonely because of that.

    People seem scared of her sadistic/pyro/weird tendencies, but that's totally my element! Don't discourage her!

    Rather, I think it's better to encourage her!

    Talk to her for a while and play along with her interests. Ask her if she likes setting things on fire or cutting frogs open.

    ...and then teach her how to do it better!

    Use modern-day knowledge to teach her how to make improvised explosives and change the color of fire!

    Be as creepy and mysterious and interesting as possible!

    Teach her anything that she's interested in~

    Become her sensei, and she will respect you for the fact that you know so much. Furthermore, if she genuinely is lonely/misunderstood, you can be the only person who understands her -- and then draw her away to betray her family or do various other bad things. If she has the mindset of a serial killer, that can be a good thing! :blobxd::blobxd::blobxd:
     
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  5. sal880612m

    sal880612m As I thought, love was a status effect! ~ICDS

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    All of that hinges on him being so far gone as to be self-destructive. However the well being of his family and the state of his farm indicate that isn't the case. His eldest son is living proof that he can accept a relationship like the one I propose so it's just a matter of finding the right balance. And being more meta, if he is that far gone that means that pretty much every single option is a dead end. The wife will be killed before he lets her leave him. The daughter will never be allowed to marry. The youngest son will probably be killed in a fit of rage because "How dare the ungrateful bastard leave or seek something better. I'm already the best." Paranoia would likely get the eldest son killed. Basically the farmer being what you imagine him to be means all the routes available to you lead to death.
    Also he seems to be moderately successful and that means that either he isn't what you think or that he is very, very good at being what you think he is. So good in fact that he would and could likely afford to take the risk of hatching me with the intention of betraying me, using me for his purposes and not letting me outlive him.
     
  6. SilverCrow63

    SilverCrow63 Well-Known Member

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    That truly sounds like a horrible death route. T^T
    I don't think I expressed myself clearly, let's give it another try.

    This is a world where dragons are treated as lesser beings and expensive draft horses. Your scenario hinges on the farmer being willing to make a contract of equals. I think that's unlikely given the view on dragons in their society. You would have greater success framing it as a master-tool contract and escaping as soon as you reach adulthood. This would appeal to his ego and reinforce the misconception that dragons are beasts that can be controlled. In this scenario, I do not think that the farmer will accept a tool that is superior to him. Being too intelligent for him to suppress would cause him to sell you immediately. That's why it would be beneficial to make him think he has your weakness, that he is superior to the inferior being-- you.

    His children are his legacy so they are granted certain rights and freedoms but you are not his child. You are an expensive tool to make his life more interesting. You should not expect the same privileges as his children or even a human.

    A tool that can intelligently carry out its orders is good but a tool that starts thinking for itself is dangerous and should be disposed of. Intelligence is useful but it's better not to seem too intelligent just intelligent enough to be useful.

    I was bringing up scenarios of kings because a master is like a king. Looking back in history, officials that are too smart or whose families have grown too powerful would be disposed of by their king because they have become a threat to his power. It's better to pretend to be a pig to eat the tiger. Do not let him think you pose any threat to him before it's too late or he might try to sell you for the instant cash.
     
  7. sal880612m

    sal880612m As I thought, love was a status effect! ~ICDS

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    This is mostly your supposition. There is that fact that dragon eggs can be turned into mindless mounts, and that dragons are being killed. But nowhere does it state that this is the general view the society has towards dragons. For them to be hunting them down and killing them there needs to be a reason. For them to have the means to turn them into mindless mounts there needs to be a history that demonstrates that they aren't. Lastly just because you would assuage his ego and treat him like a master doesn't mean I can't try to make him view me as an adoptive child. Weirder things have happened. Also you are being incredibly contradictory. The general view is that dragons are lesser beings but the farmer wouldn't accept a tool that is superior to him? How does that make sense. If the general view is that dragons are lesser beings then there is no reason for the farmer to think I am superior to him. Also while basically extinct, as the mother dragon was a wild dragon this is a new thing, and no view of wild dragons has been given other than that they are being killed. I mean there is also the issue of why a dragon egg has any value given that dragons have been captured and tamed, but ... well maybe it's the mating cycle.

    In case you missed the subtext of what I was saying, part of the idea was to try and make him think of me as an adoptive child. Just because you don't like it and have decided it's impossible doesn't mean it is.

    Nice modern, and learned logic for an likely uneducated farmer in a fantasy and likely medieval setting. Maybe there is a history of non-brainwiped dragons rebelling but even if there is the odds of some random farming knowing about it, not that great.

    .. First off, I'm going to be an egg for five years. I don't pose any threat to him. Second off, why do you assume I do pose a threat to him even once I hatch. If he treats me moderately well and doesn't seem like he is going to try and kill me before he dies there is no reason for me not to faithful play out my role. I am still placing myself in a subordinate position to him, all that is different is that I am aiming for him to consider me one of his family, so that I gain the protections they have.
     
  8. SilverCrow63

    SilverCrow63 Well-Known Member

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    Quoting from the first poll of the dragon world series yes I do believe they treat non-human species as inferior.
    https://forum.novelupdates.com/thre...a-dragon-how-would-you-hide-as-a-human.96555/
    In your world, dragons are endangered species and frequently poached by monster hunters. There are humans who specialize in slaying monsters, and dragons are considered one of the most famous and prized monsters to kill. Even though dragon-hunting is illegal in most human countries, the popular demand is very strong and dragons have nearly been hunted to extinction.

    Allying yourself with "friendly" humans is probably not a good idea because humans already enslave wyverns (a similar dragon-like species) as flying mounts, and you are positive you will either be kept as a pet, captured, forced to breed with a lesser lizard in some way, or dissected for research purposes.

    Transforming into a mythical fantasy species (e.g. elves, dwarfs, griffons) is not a good idea because humans are heavily racist in this world — and most fantasy species are nearly extinct or already extinct. No species except humans have "human rights" anywhere in the world, and humans currently control the entire world. Humans are OP and more powerful than any fantasy species that exists. If you transform into something rare, it's just as bad as being a dragon because you would probably be sold on the black market if you are discovered.
    Even quoting from this poll, the common dragon they see are “enslaved and brainwashed” and “grows up no different from a dumb soulless draft horse” like “empty husks”. If this is the common view they have of dragons why would you think an uneducated farmer would know about the history of dragons before they were turned into brainless mounts. Yes, you know that your parent was a wild dragon but to the farmer who has never been in contact with wild dragons, you are the same as those mindless beasts.
    That is incredibly naive. We know that the farmer is a “cruel and sadistic person” why would he show kindness to a random dragon egg by trearing it like family. The probability of that is very little.
    Is that contradictory? It is simply what is believed vs the reality the farmer realizes and refuses to accept. Humans will do a lot to make sure that their beliefs are not contradicted. You and I are the same. Referencing from history, American slave owners in the past knew that their slaves were capable of literacy and had intelligence yet they treated them like beasts who needed guidance from their superiors, setting more regulations to prevent their escape or education when they proved capable of it.They feared their beliefs would be wrong and that they will lose control. Similarly, according to the common view, the farmer believes that dragons are lesser beings but when he sees that you are not what do you think he will do. I believe that he will do anything to make sure you stay the dumb beast he believes you are and when you are sold on the black market asking why he betrayed you he will say “As expected of a dumb beast, he can't even tell when he's being tricked”. To make it simple... if you met a talking pig, it's still a pig.
    If his character setting wasn't a sadist who tortured animals (he skins literal kittens) for funsies maybe I would believe it.
    This is as modern as The Prince or The Art of War. It's probably even older than that. Why do you think that nations in the past did not educate the general populace, reserving education for the aristocracy? This still happens to the common people in 3rd world nations today. Why do you think emperors deposed of ministers that thought themselves clever?
    This is something more innate than that. In case you can not tell what I'm implying, humans fear what they do not know, what they can not control. Especially when it comes to power, those in power fear it being taken from them. The farmer does not need to know the history of dragons to fear a dragon that is cleverer than him. That alone is reason enough to get rid of the threat and if he can get money out of it then thats what he'll do. Maybe he will say that dragons are stupid but subconsciously he will know that you are smarter and I do not believe he will accept that.
    As a very cynical human who knows other very cynical humans I apologize if I can not believe in the good will of a stranger who can get millions of gold from selling me. If I saw a dragon that can effortlessly slice my livestock into pieces and is very intelligent on a daily basis I would find you a threat even if you never once acted hostile toward me. If the benefits you can offer the farmer is less than millions of gold I believe he will sell you. I'm not even getting into the whole blood related children vs non-human adopted child debate and how you wouldn't be getting any actual protections if the wider human society finds out you lived there.

    You are acting on the belief that the farmer holds some good will, I am acting on the belief that he is a twisted human being I should be cautious of. Let's agree to disagree. Who knows, maybe the farmer will agree to adopt a dragon he is using to torture his livestock. Anything could happen.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  9. sal880612m

    sal880612m As I thought, love was a status effect! ~ICDS

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    Actually I'm making a judgement call that the farmer is a sociopath instead of a psychopath. There are a bunch of small reasons and in the end I'm not 100% certain either way. However, if he is a sociopath there is more room to maneuver and at least a chance of achieving a good result while there is no good result to be had if he is a psychopath, no matter who you choose to contact. Caution is a good idea, but at the same time if you are too cautious you risk revealing exactly what you are trying to hide anyway. Better to be open and upfront, than risk getting caught in a lie. Showing intelligence is a risk, hiding it and getting caught is a bigger one because it show that not only are you intelligent you are also deceitful. And you would need to keep up the charade for at least five years.

    For reference I read the wife and first son as victims of abuse. One trying to be invisible in order not to become a target, the other trying to be perfect in order not to draw wrath. The daughter is at least a budding sociopath, and as someone who is seemingly inexperienced and still developing the likelihood of her going too far is much higher than the more stable if more twisted farmer. The youngest is simply too young and too likely to change to be relied upon. Even if the farmer tortures me I will accept it and hope that when all is said and done that I am strong enough as a result to resist what the world will throw at me when I am discovered.

    Beyond that people are on the menu too, not just livestock. I'm going to need to learn how to kill them and if he's torturing animals the way he is and hasn't started in on people at his age ... sociopath is slightly more likely still. My existence would allow him to go to places he would never otherwise go, and if things go wrong he can throw me to the wolves. Because while people may fear what they can't control and what they don't understand, on some level there is an instinctual understanding that we can barely manage to control or understand ourselves let alone anyone or anything else. However, people will almost always move to satisfy their own base desires if they think they can get away with it.

    Less about what we were discussing but the value of a dragon egg seems inflated. I mean unless the braindead thing makes dragons unable to produce offspring then the only reason they should be rare is an extremely long mating cycle but if that is the case the eggs would likely be so rare that almost no one would recognize them or know that the have any value.

    TLDR; We disagree and the value of eggs makes no sense.


    ...
     
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  10. SilverCrow63

    SilverCrow63 Well-Known Member

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    I respect your mentality.
     
  11. lychee

    lychee [- slightly morbid fruit -] ❀[ 恋爱? ]❀

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    I kind of tossed a random number for the value of eggs, but they were intended to be valuable.

    To make the scenario internally consistent, I guess you could say that the fertility of the braindead dragons is drastically reduced. Humans haven't figured out a good way to get them to reproduce properly. Consequently, it isn't easy for them to farm eggs.

    The braindead dragons in my head are sort of like a rare but valuable asset.

    Dragons can live for thousands of years, so acquiring one is quite a long-term investment.

    As for being able to recognize a dragon egg... well, I kind of imagined it as a big sturdy egg. No matter who saw it, people would think that it is strange or unusual, regardless if they could readily identify it in any way.
     
  12. Rainingmoon

    Rainingmoon Well-Known Member

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    This questions are getting more sadistic!! I think I'll just expect death in such a place... no one that lives with the farmer that openly does cruelty against animals would ever be normal enough to be trusted.