QI contract

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by abc123, May 23, 2017.

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  1. Tebix

    Tebix Well-Known Member

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    There is a way that the copyright is free from the source: The source doesn't have a copyright (anymore). So when you translate old texts like Faust and co. you completely own the translation.
    Keep in mind that translation and source are two separate copyright and end on different years.
     
  2. Linbe

    Linbe New member

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    I wouldn't sign the contract just because of all the pages you have to read....goddammit this is just editing and TL'ing too...
     
  3. Dummy00001

    Dummy00001 Active Member

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    Can anybody point me to some resource to read about the legal aspects of the translations? Something general to understand the basics?

    Because, frankly, I do not understand the rights held by Qidian vs the rights held by TLs. Qidian owns the copyright to the novels in China, in Chinese language. Qidian doesn't sell the novels in other markets. Have they actually registered copyright to their Chinese novels in the USA/EU? They probably did, because without that, they do not have the legal footing at all. But copyright isn't magic: copyright ownership of the Chinese book doesn't magically sticks to its English translation, for which they haven't paid for. Thus the questions: what rights holds the TLer? I've read about the typical practices of the publishers to never explain anything, and simply demand all rights being assigned to them. Keeping it obscure and opaque - a heaven for lawyers. The several pages about TLing I've googled and read - not one said anything about the rights of the TLers. All talk was about how to dance around the publishers and never getting them angry at you.
     
  4. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    I think you are misunderstanding something here: first of all, copyright is technically given to a work as soon as it is created (even if this doesnt work well)

    Secondly, although the copyright for the original work belongs to the original party, the translation itself is a bit of a legal pain. Even though it may infringe on the original author, trying to use a translation without permission can also cause issues.

    Thus, the law is hard to work with.
     
  5. TheOnlyRavenbrand

    TheOnlyRavenbrand Death Knight - WW Supporter

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    How to make it not messy is getting a license to be "official". However, as soon as you put up the translated work into the public sphere it can become an original copyright work. Can you be dmca'd? Yes. Can that company have the legal right to use your translated work.. No they can't.
     
  6. TheDefend

    TheDefend Public Dental Support

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    just because they can't does not meat it's not usable.
     
  7. TheOnlyRavenbrand

    TheOnlyRavenbrand Death Knight - WW Supporter

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    If they do not get permission to to use your translation they cannot use it as if it is in the public domain (which the Internet is public) it can become an original work as the works of translators can be very different from person to person depending on how they choose to go with the work.
     
  8. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    Public domain is items no longer protected by copyright

    http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/public-domain/welcome
     
  9. TheOnlyRavenbrand

    TheOnlyRavenbrand Death Knight - WW Supporter

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    Different part of the law that deals with works from translations which is why Qidian offers to buy translated materials instead of doing redoing everything. Public domain is different in this sense.
     
  10. Devshard

    Devshard Well-Known Member

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    You realize that's not entirely true, yes?

    Translated works do become a unique creation of their own, and cannot be claimed under the copyright of the original work. That's a fact. QI, or anyone else, cannot just take a translated work off the internet and claim it as their own. There are ways around that rule though. If QI really felt like going nuclear, they could essentially claim that ad revenue/donations/patreon constitute illegal profits from their source material and claim a ridiculous amount of compensation for that in court. Doesn't actually matter if their case has merit or if they have no chance of actually winning that amount. Just the threat of it is enough to scare most people into stepping back.

    Then they quietly let you know that they're willing to drop the whole thing if you transfer everything that's been currently translated over to them. Ta-da! They now legally own a unique creation based on a copyright on the source material.
     
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  11. TheOnlyRavenbrand

    TheOnlyRavenbrand Death Knight - WW Supporter

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    Except that wasn't what I was talking about. However you did give merit to what I said at the beginning of your post then you went into.. Well they can do this. Yeah I wasn't going with the hypothetical there. Just saying what is.
     
  12. Dummy00001

    Dummy00001 Active Member

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    I think you POV is bit removed from the harsh realities: copyright originally belongs to the author. But the contract with publisher changes that: copyright to works written under the contract with the publisher, belongs to publisher.

    But still, to enjoy the copyright protection under the law requires registering the work with (in USA) Copyright Office. Granted, after Berne copyright convention, this is a formality. But when publisher flaunts "3 million" works, that formality could also turn into a hurdle. (Registering copyright also removes the future potential problem of establishing when the work was created, since this also defines when work leaves copyright protection and enters the public domain. Thus especially the book publishers are very keen on registering the copyright to avoid future problems.)

    The best explanation I have found so far (valid for the US of A) is [oops] (can't post links, google "Intellectual Property: Is it illegal to translate a book and post the translation online?" ). Translation is derivative work, thus, before being publishing, requires authorization of the copyright holder of the original work. Now other questions are: are web-novels considered books? (since they are often also printed as books - very likely yes); does posting it on the internet blog for free is considered publishing? (esp in USA, very likely "yes", since USA has removed the monetary aspect from the distribution: giving away for free and selling, from POV of US copyright law, is the same).
     
  13. Rumanshi

    Rumanshi 『Demon Lord』『ルマンし』

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    You know, i said the word 'technically' for a reason. Because i was aware of different laws for different countries.

    Anyway, to anyone trying to argue about legality online: either dont, or take whats said with a grain of salt.
     
  14. Logicsol

    Logicsol Proud owner of a Toyota Lernlaw

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    You don't need to register a copyright, it's automatically granted once the work is created. Registration is only required if you're taking legal action for infringement, and can be done after the infringement has occurred.

    As for translations, Translations are both considered a derivative work, as well as a separate work.
    Essentially this means that an unauthorized translation is still owned by the translator, however distribution of it constitutes copyright infringement and can be action against. However the TL will still maintain ownership of their specific translation.

    This is why QI is trying to buy out prior translated works, because they realize that they need it in order to maintain the existing readership, but even though they own the original work they can't use yours unless they reach an agreement with you.
     
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  15. Raizhee

    Raizhee bubblegum bitch

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    The threade with qidian alwaysentertain myself ...
    <-<
    I skipped most of it but what i read is still full potato
     
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  16. ShojiroKatsuragi

    ShojiroKatsuragi Well-Known Member

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    So if Qidian owns all intellectual property produced during the term of the contract, does that mean even original stories are included?
     
  17. ShojiroKatsuragi

    ShojiroKatsuragi Well-Known Member

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    Actually, that's not true. In my country, and I believe this is the standard internationally, translations count as derivative works, not independent works. And in most countries the copyright holder of a work also holds all rights to all derivative works, regardless of the form of expression (i.e. if the original is written and the derivative is visual, or if it is a translation into another language). As such any unauthorised translation is illegal and the derivative work is subject to forfeiture (i.e. can be seized as property under copyright law of the copyright holder of the original, copyrighted product).
     
  18. Westeller

    Westeller Smokin' Sexy Style!! Staff Member

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    Translations are derivative works, yes, but internationally considered significantly transformative enough to merit their own copyright protection independent from the original. That *is* the international standard, by treaty. -- "Translations, adaptations, arrangements of music and other alterations of a literary or artistic work shall be protected as original works without prejudice to the copyright in the original work." -- Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Work.

    That doesn't mean you can translate without permission. What it means is that the translation is protected by its own copyright, too. It's your work. You made it. Unless you sign it away or a court takes it from you, no one else can use it without violating the same laws you did in translating without permission. Even the original copyright holder. On the other hand, you can't use it either, without permission.

    To begin with, though, owning the copyright to something does not automatically make you the owner of derivative works - translations aside - in the first place. In any country, as far as I know... but hey, I don't know where you live.

    All it means for something to be derivative is that it infringes on the original copyright, and thus can't be used commercially without permission of the original copyright holder. ... Copyright infringements usually end with something being pulled from the market. They essentially never end with the original copyright holder taking the other person's "derivative" work as their own, to sell themselves.

    There's a tremendous difference between "you're copying my work, you can't do that and sell it" and "you're copying my work, everything you've done now belongs to me."
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  19. Arcturus

    Arcturus Cat, Hidden Sith Lord

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    Of course there are certain derivative works such as parodies which (at least in the use) fall under fair use and thus are valid without permission of the copyright holder. In fact, in the case of parodies, they can even be financially detrimental to the copyright holder.
     
  20. Ko

    Ko "The Corrupted Queen"

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    Oh my .. I just saw this .. this is terrible af.
    It can't be helped though.. This is reality.
    Money is everything.
     
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