News Qidian's Announcement

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Qidian, May 23, 2017.

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  1. Caladbolg

    Caladbolg Shady Old Man; Salad Tosser 『WW Vet.』

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    Given China's business practices, yeah, something just as bad would have popped up. However, do we really need to accept something bad when we already have a better system working?
     
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  2. zentetsuken

    zentetsuken Well-Known Member

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    You got it all wrong. Without WW & GT there is no QI in the first place.

    As for the importance of Qidian to WW, I rate it below SPECnet forum.
     
  3. Pyre

    Pyre Member

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    You mixed up Qidian and Qidian International. Qidian is the original site from which WW took stuff to translate.
     
  4. Tramsloof

    Tramsloof Quarter Erudite

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    The end of all points is neither WW or Qidian is absolute. And either of them could be replaced, had they not existed. It would take some time, but their replacements would come.

    And you can't rule out the contribution of fan translators to chiniese literature. Yes, it is them that realised the market gap and realised its potential and without them Qidian International would not be here. Sharks come when they sense blood. And this blood is money that Fan translators are earning.

    Sadly for Qidian, money is not the only thing these fan translators earned. And Qidian underestimated our community. This is not an issue of piracy or war between WW and Qidian. It is an issue between Qidian and community.
     
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  5. zentetsuken

    zentetsuken Well-Known Member

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    Nope, I did not. The original site, Qidian is not as important SPECnet for WW. Without SPECnet, there might even a chinese translation scene/community (I meant no WW, GT & NU).

    Without Qidian? Oh look WW already several new novels to translated. Without WW, Qidian wont bother to make QI
     
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  6. Caladbolg

    Caladbolg Shady Old Man; Salad Tosser 『WW Vet.』

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    Very well said :)
     
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  7. kaberial

    kaberial Active Member

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    Was only away for a month catching up on 3 years worth games I couldn't play cause of work and this happened? 2017...not a great year so far. Laid-off, trump, and now qidian. What is next? Nuclear annihilation?
     
  8. Pyre

    Pyre Member

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    Indeed, if there's a power vacuum someone would be sure to fill it out, be it Qidian or Dianqi or w/e. However, once a dominant power emerges, it's going to try its best to snuff out potential competitors, be it Qidian or Dianqi.

    Fan translator's contribution to Chinese literature? You mean to Chinese's literature's spread in the non-Chinese speaking world? Sure, I fully acknowledge the translator's contributions to Chinese webnovel's popularity overseas, but I don't agree with the statement "Sharks come when they smell blood". QD is the owner of the copyrights of the original novels, if you are making money off of stuff that I own and I'm not getting anything, I'd be pissed too.

    Personally I don't love QD, but I respect copyright laws and think QD who spent money to buy the right to the novels from the authors should have the right to decide how these novels are to be used. You say this is not an issue of piracy, but to me it is exactly an issue of piracy and nothing more, nothing less. If QD didn't have the copyrights it wouldn't have bothered to step in in the first place.
     
  9. Pyre

    Pyre Member

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    Oh OK, well I'm not familiar with SPECnet so I'll take your word for it. Indeed without WW it's unlikely Qidian would launch an international project at this moment.
     
  10. Tramsloof

    Tramsloof Quarter Erudite

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    Lol you end up right at the place where you started. If Qidian cared so much about international business, why did it not come before fan translators started earning money? They only came for the money.

    Now Qidian came in late. Then it made foolish statements and offered no explanation that can help sort this mess out. WW respected the legal side of this business too as it tried to negotiate with Qidian, and Qidian was happy to do the same with WW. But suddenly WW are pirates? And you are making this a public issue?

    Even now Qidian is changing the way this community works. And we were happy with the way it used to work. Qidian should've found a common ground to work so all parties can benefit and not take a approach that only sees the profits of its company. I disagree with it because I am from this community and I also disagree with it as a business practice.

    It's like some one has an idea for a venture and another man puts in efforts to accomplish it. You can't say that because you own the idea, you should own everything.

    Just because Qidian has copyrights doesn't mean that it has to be a dick about it. With great power comes great responsibilty. And for your information, from the looks of it Qidian backed out of the copyright selling deal.
     
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  11. Vicious

    Vicious [Egg on rice]

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    Why is Qidian the only one doing this? Is Syosetsu and Munpia oblivious to the international translation market?
     
  12. Pyre

    Pyre Member

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    "Suddenly WW are pirates"? WW *were* pirates from the very beginning because the stuff they translated belong to QD, they did not get permission and they made profits. Just because WW had the decency to approach QD first and try to strike out a legal deal doesn't make them any less of a pirate.

    I do agree that "Just because Qidian has copyrights doesn't mean that it has to be a dick about it." Well QD is being a dick, and I fully support if the community wants to boycott it. What I don't support though, is part of the community wanting to make free translations a given. If you don't like the company, don't buy their products, but don't demand them to give you freebies. Using their products and complaining about them not being free is just... cheap.

    PS: I find the analogy "It's like some one has an idea for a venture and another man puts in efforts to accomplish it. You can't say that because you own the idea, you should own everything." isn't very accurate in this case. The original novel is not "just an idea" - it's a complete product. The translators are *not* fleshing out an idea on their own but instead trying their best to convey what the author already put down on paper in another language. The level of efforts required is different.
     
  13. xCalibur

    xCalibur Banned

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    Somebody give this guy a popcorn. He must be hungry from typing all of the bullshit.
     
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  14. Shield Loyalist

    Shield Loyalist 『One Who Trusts His Instinct』『Short-Fused』

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    Just coming back to answer this...

    Because Qidian owns the novels.

    Yes, I know it's weird how they're a publisher and yet they own the novel instead of the author. But I don't feel going to that part anymore.
     
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  15. Tramsloof

    Tramsloof Quarter Erudite

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    Dear but the only thing you are missing is they had a contract. And that contract made it so that they are not pirates. You must have seen that Qidian post about them working together with WuxiaWorld on many novels.

    You see, if it was a crime. Why did you not say so from the very start. No, how could they afford it? Because translation is the property of translators and the best Qidian could do was to shut them down, but that would result in starting the translations from scratch with very inferior translators.

    So what do they do? They strike a deal, a contract that is under NDA. After this, the position of WW is not the same anymore, in fact it is legitimate. And Qidian is backing out. This is the problem. If it couldn't disclose all the facts, why would it start a public issue?

    If you think translation is no effort, or effort to a degree that needs consideration in this matter, I must disagree. They work full time, with dedication and provide quality. If translating was that easy, why don't I see everything translated into every language? Yes you see everything translated, but on Google translate. Now compare that with a translation of experienced translator and tell me you don't see effort.

    Now for all that effort translators are being offered $35-$40. They will not have ownership over translation they did. They will have to use their names in social events and do the bidding of Qidian if they wish for them to do so. They must not get in touch with the community or leave any negative remarks about Qidian. They must also pump out minimum of 5 chapters a week.

    No wonder why people are resisting.

    Lastly, the business model. Qidian said that it would explore new business models in this new market and the models of WW and GT fascinated it. But all of a sudden we are hearing about paywalls. No, I don't have a problem in paying. Money is not the issue here, but the issue is that I am being forced to pay money. I am boycotting their site, and whether it is free or paid is of no concern to me. It wants to become a monopoly so I have no choice but to read it there, well it doesn't work like that.

    These tactics may work in China but not here, especially not on the Internet. Now don't let me start about the 'Americans', they hold grudges and they hold them well. Qidian murdered the trust community had in them, and this is the retaliation for that and not just for WW.

    PS. If you still think all these people are furious just because Qidian is paywalling, then let me suggest a business idea to Qidian which can earn them money. Let people take a piss on them for say $40 a piss? They will earn way more than they are earning now, and you will see people spending their hard earned dollars.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  16. Its Michael

    Its Michael Well-Known Member

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    @Pyre "I don't get the anger here: "No shit they can't use their work on another platform/media even if they don't sign the contract. It's either getting paid or getting robbed. I mean you are translating someone else's original work, of course by law you can't use that for your own financial benefit. It's like I can't just translate World of Warcraft and call it my game and try to earn money with it." - Well I'm a business owner in UK and apparently you know nothing about real law and how it's working. To be specific translating novels is gray area and translators doesn't "earn" money - they are getting "donations" thus it isn't working in a way you are thinking. On top of that owner of orginal work can DMCA novel but can't try to use translators work without their permission - guess why Yenpress have been translating novels from 1st chapter after using DMCA to deal with fan translations? If you are talking especially about Qidian asking wuxiaworld to send them all their translated chapters - it's illegal not only because of the thing I mentioned but because 20 novels have been under authorization from Qidian thus they get paid for it and wuxiaworld have their authorization - they are translating lawfully. According to rwx words there have been an oral agreement between him and Qidian regarding any future novels he would want to authorize and Qidian said it would be up for negotiations. As there is no specification regarding why they don't reach consensus during negotiations I wouldn't try to guess because it's pointless. Even if Qidian will try to DMCA as for now they can try to DMCA those additional 11 novels without authorization - and no they can't use other people work as theirs. If it would be legal the best solution for Qidian will be waiting for translators to finish most of good novels and DMCA them straight away. Regarding those 20 novels for with wuxiaworld have an authorization Qidian can't do a shit because as I already said they are translating them lawfully after purchasing authorization from Qidian. Maybe now you get why people are annoyed about Qidian trying to use other people work and are even cheeky enough to demand wuxiaworld to send them all translated chapters even for those 20 novels for which they got paid.

    @PinoyReader "My opinion is the same. People might be forgetting but if there is no Qidian then there is no WW in the first place" - wuxiawords = community connecting translators of chinese (and now others) novels and readers. If there would be no Qidian in the past guess what - they would just start translating other novels. To be more specific without wuxiaworld there won't be even international market and western readers wanting to buy any chinese novel simply because no one cared before rwx about spreading them here.

    @Pyre "Well I don't know how they would feel in this case, but most authors are pretty pissed at people reading pirated Chinese copies of their books, especially when pirate readers claim "the books would have no popularity without them"." - apparently you don't know anything about wuxiaworld at all - go at wuxiaworld facebook page and watch videos especially the one with caption "Author of Martial God Asura has a special message for Western readers!" - damn he even mentioned wuxiaworld readers ;)

    @Pyre "QD is the owner of the copyrights of the original novels, if you are making money off of stuff that I own and I'm not getting anything, I'd be pissed too. Personally I don't love QD, but I respect copyright laws and think QD who spent money to buy the right to the novels from the authors should have the right to decide how these novels are to be used. You say this is not an issue of piracy, but to me it is exactly an issue of piracy and nothing more, nothing less. If QD didn't have the copyrights it wouldn't have bothered to step in in the first place." - seems like you don't get one thing rwx paid Qidian for authorization of 20 novels and it's Qidian who don't respect the law in this case. Damn they are now stating out of the blue how bad rwx is and how he is pirating something he paid for and are cheeky enough to demand already translated chapters of those novels to be posted on their site. I hope now you get what the main issue is...
     
  17. Shield Loyalist

    Shield Loyalist 『One Who Trusts His Instinct』『Short-Fused』

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    "I'll tell all my friends and relatives, not to buy your shit/crap/trash anymore and go to <insert competition brand>."

    I often heard this line when I worked as tech support for an ISP. Ah, the good old days..
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
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  18. cinabre

    cinabre ♭♬ ♪ ♮♫ # ♩♭ ♪ ♮♫ #♩♭ ♬ ♪

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    I can't believe people calls WW pirates.

    They informed authors before translating, they negociated copyright with publishers as soon as they decided to create a compagny. They added more tittles trusting their oral agreement with QI.
    QI and WW have signed licences for at least 20 novels. And now they demand these novel to be Release on their plateform. They orally agreed for more novels to join WW . I totally believe that as Ren posted it in WW announcements. QI can't ignore something every body here knows here.
    Still they are betraying all contracts they made and now they are calling WW pirates. Ridiculious.

    Whatever happens now I won't read any novel from QI now. Sorry for the authors and translators forces to join that.
    There is no way I will accept QI behaviour.
     
  19. Pyre

    Pyre Member

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    Well I have no more to say about Qidian. As long as people don't demand free stuff from them I'm all for boycotting it. I'm tired of seeing people claiming "if I can't read this for free I'm boycotting QI". If you want to read QI stuff pay for it. If you don't want to pay then don't read it.

    On translations: I did not say translation is not an effort to a degree that needs consideration as I myself serve as a part-time translator for my company when the need arises. However, translating and profiting off of completed literary works would require consent of the original author or whoever holds the copyright of the original. Translation isn't easy, but that doesn't mean I can translate Harry Potter in Chinese and just sell the books without asking JK Rowling first.

    Lastly I'm not quite sure how you are force to pay money... if you don't read the novels how is QD going to force you to pay them?
     
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  20. Pyre

    Pyre Member

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    This is what happens in China too lol.
     
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