Question Quick Question Concerning Rules

Discussion in 'Translator's Corner' started by ShyHeaux, Oct 23, 2021.

  1. omniscient reader

    omniscient reader Active Member

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    :blobpeek: so either one side is acting like a fake white lotus or there's a whole series of terrible terrible miscommunication happening with both parties

    Fun. Not.

    Sometimes I feel like translators need to take a quiz on NU rules (and literacy comprehension) and pass it with 90%+ score before their translations can be added to NU.
     
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  2. IceLight303

    IceLight303 Well-Known Member

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    Period. The amount of times I've seen people upload an unedited or 'lightly' edited chapter then get upset that it gets taken down.
     
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  3. yelim0503

    yelim0503 New Member

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    Then, I'd like to upload the ss's of the beginning of our conversation. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GI5KuecVXi4eN2EUyFu_TAdgXnMzo7h8/view?usp=drivesdk

    Here's my response which didn't make it into the pdf:
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    (If embedd doesn't work, I'll hyper link it as well)
    Text of image Above: But that's why I said I'd rather you not delete. If you've already had so much work, then please, feel free to tell me that you'd rather not have us upload our three chapters, and continue to work on it. I'd feel really bad if you have to waste work you've done. Any criticisms on the mistranslation, I hoped, would be taken as constructive criticism. You're also valid if you say you'd like to continue to translate. At which point, if push comes to shove, maybe it's better for us to back off.

    Regardless of what group I'm from translator to translator, I just wished to settle this peacefully. (Though yes, I post a project I have through Foxaholic, that means little if you'd like us to back off, which I'll respect).


    Later on in the conversation I apologized for my tone, didn't intend to come off as rude, and said I in no way wanted to say her translations were bad. It's just that sometimes the machine doesn't catch nuance (and makes mistakes) so we felt there was merit in uploading our chapters as it's not a duplicate (and definitely was a different translation).

    Their last message to me, however, was a sincere punch in the face.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Hyper link if embedded images) don't work: Part 1, Part 2

    Text of the ShyHeaux's last message to me: Okay, I will upload all my translated chapters. I initially felt bad, I don't want to waste my efforts, so I have 5 additional chapters I am in the midsts of editing. Since I was on a schedule I was taking my time because I'm really sick, but now I will upload them and will make sure to add a note in each chapter detailing why I will be dropping it afterwards because "two natives said my translation is subpar and they can do it better."

    As noted, I definitely wanted to "ask permission" as courtesy. Novel Updates allows groups to post chapters starting from the first chapter, but I really didn't want to step on anyone's toes. Instead, I asked if that was okay--nowhere did I say that they should drop the novel. I vehemently argued the opposite. I find it hurtful that it's portrayed as us bullying them off the novel or that we were claiming the novel for ourselves. We were fully willing to apologize and back away when feelings were hurt. We never wanted to expand on the 'mis-tl' issue anyway, and only expanded when asked. Plus, I don't think "detailing a note in each chapter" dedicated to us is...really warranted when I feel like we've apologized countless times for disturbing her and wanted her to continue working on it.

    Sorry for my grammar--I'm working on 0 hours of sleep right now.

    [​IMG]
    More apologies from me:

    Text: I'm sorry, I didn't think the first message was started with criticism persay--at least in the novel world I've had people come to me about correcting language stuff as well--and this was, from the very beginning, a request for us to be able to post our translated chapters and then we'll back off. I shouldn't have mentioned collabs without talking to my co-tl's, and for that, I'm sorry.

    But, really 100% this shouldn't be a reason for you to stop translating if you want to translate this novel. There's no bad mtl'r or good mtl'r...there's only learning spectrum. If we've pointed out mistakes--it happens! Sometimes we take those criticisms and move on. (And in the first place, you've asked for where the mistranslations were). I'm happy you translate for fun (
    A reference to a comment before where Shy says they translate for fun and don't want drama) and there's definitely many novels to translate. That's why we would have been fine moving on...we really just wanted to not waste the effort on our current translated chapters.

    Sorry for the text dump. I didn't want this to affect my group, so I wanted to explain myself, give evidence, and clear the air. In the first place, I'm not a professional translator, so there would be no reason for me to push someone off a project. But, given what was said above, I feel it's a bit dangerous for us to continue with the project since there's still bad air. We were and still are 100% willing to yield.

    EDIT: grammar

     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
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  4. solyana116

    solyana116 Well-Known Member

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    The vibe in a nutshell-
    A: Hi we like Project X that you’re translating. We have 3 people working on it, including 2 native tls. You made some mistakes. ‘Maybe we can work sth out.’
    B: F*ck off.

    Being told that a team of people working on the same project, and that two of them being ‘native’ tls, then being told there are mistranslations is quite intimidating regardless, for any tl, let alone for a fresh solo translator. There’s a subtle assertion that your translation is better and ‘Maybe we can work sth out’, immediately implies to the receiving end that this ‘something’ means you have no intention of backing off. If it was your intention from the ‘very beginning’, it should have been explicit in that first message…
    A message like that; and albeit you do apologize, it's mixed with justification (we only criticised you bc you asked for it; it's normal just take it and move on)… would rub off wrong to any translator. That's not to say I support Shy’s aggressive response either.

    I was just gonna :blobpopcorn_cool: but I might as put this unpopular opinion out there:

    Criticism, constructive or not, is not welcome unless the translator specifically asks for it first e.g. 'please mention any errors/mistranslations to me!' in the chapter,… It’s like an artist posting pouring their heart and soul into a drawing and then a random commenter says 'I noticed your proportions are wack'- very discouraging to the artist. (Even more so, if this commenter says they have a team of qualified artists drawing it, the implication it's better is blatant. Ofc, the artist is gonna ask this commenter on how their proportions are wack, this doesn’t mean they specifically asked for criticism on how they drew the face, from the get-go.) Justifying that other people have said this to you, and it’s the standard in the translator world, doesn’t make it all right either. It's a real shame that tls quit/drop because of uncalled for (constructive) criticism.

    (Just my humble opinion, don't come at me pls :sweating_profusely:.)
     
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  5. Little Potato

    Little Potato Sexiest Potato Alive [SpaceBar's Master]

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    Not commenting anything about this uh misunderstanding but again, reiterating the mods, there's really no “main translator" for one novel on NU. For example, Wu Chang Jie had two translators releasing chapters at the same time until the end and of course, they linked it on the same carrrd too so they're definitely fine with each other doing this.

    There's even cases where other translators also pick up completed translated novels eg. Mo Dao Zu Shi is completely translated and there's 3-4 more new translations because ppl love the story that much and want to bring their own interpretations to it.

    I feel like this issue may have been blown out of proportion from misunderstandings and I hope you guys could settle it soon without leaving any bad blood.
     
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  6. yelim0503

    yelim0503 New Member

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    No no, fair--no coming at anyone. I think it's well worth saying.

    I think I prefer to have someone tell me if I make any mistakes, especially story-changing mistakes, but definitely many others are different. I really could have been more explicit in the first message (and I was thinking about co-tl before we decided we'd probably rather drop three chapters and give the project up, so that's where some of the confusion lies). We really didn't want to alarm someone with the chapters being posted (feeling as if we're fighting them...which we didn't want to. I messaged, once I knew collaboration wasn't going to happen and that we'd rather move on--that we didn't want to clash.) and that we'd still like to post the chapters we had worked on because effort taken + mistranslations. I definitely should have been more sensitive about that.

    I was slightly hurt because...I definitely wished that we could have fixed this in DMs. Multiple times I said I never wanted them to back off--and (even though Novel Updates would allow it) I would rather not post if they explicitly said so. And yet...I was frustrated that each time it felt like my intent was being misconstrued, saying that 'it sounds like you want to pick up the project' rather than everything we said afterwards about wanting to yield.

    All in all, there's just been hurt feelings on both sides, and I really would have liked to settle it peacefully. But...I'm not sure if that'll happen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
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  7. ShyHeaux

    ShyHeaux Member

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    I wasn't aggressive. I was approached like:
    A: Hey we are native translators working on the same project and we would like to post our chapters because we noticed your chapters have mistranslations and we can better convey the author's intent and nuances. Maybe we can work something out.

    What happened later, summarized:

    B: Oh okay, could you give me a few examples?

    A: Sure here it is. This is just a small sample of the mistakes we found. We really want to post our chapters, our team thinks it would come best from a native's perspective. But maybe we can do a collab.

    B: Thank you for your examples! Were you looking for an editor or wanted to collab?

    A: Oh no we can't collab because the rest of my group is uncomfortable with working with too many people plus its mtl. But we just wanted to let you know before we posted our chapters. I think it's too hard to MTL anyway.

    B: I have given it some thought and I don't want to drop the project because so many people asked me for updates and I was given the raws in advance. I don't believe I grossly mistranslated anything. Aren't we all just trying to convey the author's intent? We aren't the author, the author's editor, or the author's publisher. I picked this novel up from the Pick-up forum and I am the active translator. Did you want me to delete my chapter or...

    A: No please don't delete your chapter. But when it comes to mistranslations, everyone has a limit to what's acceptable or not. In mtl its hard to catch the nuances and intent and while some people may be okay with that, we wanted to at least post ours-which caught those nuances, is localized and translated properly. We didn't want to clash but give a reason why we are uploading our chapters. One of our TL's loves the novel and wants it presented right.

    A: I will just delete my chapter. You are making it sound like my translation isn't good enough. It's off-putting to have someone nitpicking something you worked hard on repeatedly. It's frustrating because I gave my word that I would consistently release chapters.

    B: Don't delete your chapter on our behalf, we didn't intend for you to drop the project. The mistranslations were brought up to give you a reason as to why we were uploading our chapters and so you weren't surprised by the duplicate chapters.

    A: You repeatedly told me that I am not getting the story right and that your group believed it would sound better from the perspective of a native. I will just drop the novel, I don't want to fight nor compete over this. It sounds like you want to take over the project. (Goes to forum to ask clarity on rules)

    B: But that's why we were asking for permission. We didn't want you to delete your hard work. Please tell me if you would rather us not post our chapters. We didn't want anyone's efforts wasted. Please don't take our constructive criticism to heart.

    A: You said you were going to upload the chapters anyways...I already deleted my chapters and dropped the novel. All that matters is that its translated. Please feel free to move forward. I don't want to work on a novel when told by a native speaker I am translating it wrong. Constructive criticism is welcomed but not if you're going to use the same space to tell me how your work is better than mine. You may have not intended to sound that way but that's how it looked.

    B: I didn't mean to criticize you in my first message. I shouldn't have mentioned the collab thing without talking with my co-tl'r first. Translation mistakes happen all the time! There's no good or bad mtl just a learning curve.

    A: I have dropped the novel and don't intend to pick it back up. I was upset because I thought you were reaching out to collab at first.

    B: If you were upset about the collab, you should have told me that, I would have pushed for it harder. This would have ended in your favor because we were asking permission to post the chapters and would yield to you. I apologize for the criticisms, it's not about translations being lacking/etc it's about striving to better translators as a community.


    It's been completely resolved as I plan to move forward with translating and they can do as they wish. I wish I would have taken the earlier advice and none of this would have happened if I just ignored everything.
     
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  8. omniscient reader

    omniscient reader Active Member

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    Ah, lovely miscommunication.
    Miscommunication is the basis of most webnovel plots. Without miscommunication, 80% of the lovely webnovels wouldn't exist.
     
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  9. IceLight303

    IceLight303 Well-Known Member

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    Confused: Did MC go through puberty late or take a have their first lover later in life?