Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by theilikepie, Jun 9, 2019.
Thank you very much, I don't remember I'll go back and read it again.
Perhaps that is true LOL.
Am I the only one who ships Glorym and Kai together, now I have not gotten as far as the children's side stories, but I am just saying, Imagine if Glorym had never been tested on legitimacy or the results had come out positive. She would be in line to become empress, though she would grow up very isolated and quite lonely, if I can remember Sovieshu's parenting methods and how most rulers in history were raised. Now, as Sovieshu's health begins to decline, Heinrey being the ambitious man he his son to visit the Eastern Empire in the hopes of making Glorym fall in love with Kai, similarly to how Heinrey himself made Navier fall in love with him, and thus have Kai rule through GTl and the Western Empire rule through him.
Now, this proves a bit difficult given that Kai is more similar to Navier, and thus, instead of being as charmer like his father was, he far is more blunt and serious and even a bit awkward, leaving the young Princess not very impressed. Eventually,d however, she comes to realize the fact that he does not provide flattery but honesty, and she comes to slowly appreciate Kai. As this happens Kai comes to genuinely love and admire Glorym, not only for her throne but herself. Kinda like Queen Victoria and Prince Albert in The Young Victoria, the impulsive and volatile ruler - because I imagine Glorym having her mother's temperament, just knowing when to shut up at times- with her more calm and serious consort.
Just imagine the drama this would cause to Lari's more Napoleonic ambitions, as her brother is now Prince Consort to another ruler. Sic semper tyrannis.
Can anyone tell me which chapter the SovieshuxNavier ending what if is? I want to avoid it.
This is what I learn from watching Korean historical drama (keep in mind eventho the novel has the western setting but K-author tend to use the eastern culture) If the head of the household committed a crime like treason even if you are a noble then the entire family including servant would be sentenced to death, but if it was lesser crime like corruption the father could be jailed and the child either became a slave/prostitute. You could be freed from the slavery if you paid certain amount of money (just like Rasta father, no he didn't used Rasta as collateral, but he only paid for himself so while he is no longer a slave, Rasta remain a slave) or you could do labour for a certain amount of years.
For example :
The moon that Embraces the sun : the Crown Prince sister assisted their grandmother to assassinnated the Crown Princess, when the crime is uncovered she is sentenced to slavery after a few years of labour, then her husband shorthen her years of labour by paying certain amount of money.
Actually I read a novel in Naver, forgot the title, the story basically very much like Remarried Empress but with Red hair Navier, Black hair Henry, Blonde hair Sovieshu and Silver hair Rasta but with a little bit of twist 'What if Someone from modern korea who knows the novel ending transmigrated into Rasta body', and we all know how it gonna ends right? All the ML, subs ML are gonna simp over the 'nlog' Rasta.
The Navier quote is from the most recent chapters posted. As for Souvishu, that wasn't a direct quote. Mob psyche is right, Souvishu also mentioned it after the Rashta trial to Marquis Karl.
But it wouldn't be Rashta, it would be somebody else wearing Rashta's skin. It is impossible for Rashta to survive unless she meets a "Navier" because 1. Rashta needs to be able to be loyal (the only one worthy of her loyalty is Navier) 2. She needs a Navier because Navier is the only one naive and sweet enough to have the "I can fix her" personality aimed at a walking red flag (to Souvishu's horror, despite the jealousy he truly believed Heinrey was a walking red flag and not a good country boy). Hence Rashta actually interacting and bonding with someone would make her think a bit. What usually makes the ML's hate the villainess is their shitty personality and Navier is pretty passive, she is not a vengeful person. Navier would be in the villainess role and she would make an awful and boring villain too, she would just move away and marry her farmer no name boy. Basically Navier has no love for you if you don't love her, and if the ml has no love for her then she has no love for him. That combine with her pride and her being logical and realistic would just make her walk away.
Navier cant fix her. She's not really a sweet person dude. Like where'd you get that from? She and her family try to cover he brothers abuse of power and crimes all the time
You have to remember she's also classist as fuck
No one in this novel is actually good in the traditional sense
No the only way rashta could have survived if she met soemone who wasn't a noble while escaping
Navier would never ever have understood her. She's was born with everything and had a family who loved her. She never faced any hardships. Any attempts to bond with rashta would he patronizing as hell.
Navier isnt a good person. Being the protagonist dosent make you a good person. She is so quick to climb to the top even at the expense of her old kingdom (which is okay I guess. Her old kingdom sucks ass) but in no way is she good. Slavers can never be good
It would be so gross if rashta was loyal to navier. Navier dosent deserve any loyalty from the slave class she and her kingdom continue to churn out
The Canon ending of Rashta killing herself is way better then the stokholm snydorm way of becoming loyal to naiver
It's a fate worse then death
For being Rashta's biggest fan you sure don't understand shit about her. Even in the main story did you not understand Rashta's strongest and deepest desire all the way to her death was to be acknowledged and accepted by Navier, a woman she used to worship. She couldn't hug her in real life, but she could hug her in her last agonal dream. Navier might as well be a goddess in her eyes. The only reason their relationship was soiled from the beginning was because Rashta fucked Navier's husband and Navier didn't want anything to do with either of them. With Navier's rejection, Rashta become more obsessive to the point where Navier points it out “Or is it that you are obsessed with me?”
What do you think this picture is about
Of course Navier is corrupt like every other noble just not to the extent most of them are. She is overall a reasonable peace seeker but she won't be taken down without putting up a fight. She will hide Heinrey's corruption because she loves him but also because it would jeopardize her entire empire. She is a sucker towards those she loves but not a push over because she expects those she loves to actually follow her advice after her initial forgiveness which is why Heinrey tries to be a better person for her sake (actually he was proactive about it even before his mask slipped off).
I blame Kosair for how she is because Navier probably grew up watching her parents getting him out of trouble and because he has such an extreme personality it makes Rashta seem somewhat normal when most people would just run away into another direction so when she walks in on Rashta attempting to kill pregnant Granola (oh boy who does that remind you of?) it doesn't even shock her. Hence Navier is overly sweet and loving towards those she loves, so even when she found out her husband was planning on massacring her home country she forgave him as long as he "fixes" it. She also doesn't treat Rashta like a novelty or as Souvishu would put it: a puppy. She treats her like a person, but she guides her. You know, so that she doesn't die. I don't think she can't empathize with Rashta but can sympathize and become her friend.
Navier is not a classist, she doesn't act like a noble when meeting those that are deemed beneath her. She is nervous and thoughtful about it like anybody else instead of not giving a shit because they should be groveling at her feet. When meeting a person no matter the rank Navier thinks "I hope they like me" not "they should be grateful for my presence". Yet Navier is viewed as cold because she likes to get to the point instead of using flatteries, you can't use bribery on her and has a resting bitch face. Navier knows her role as empress to stand tall and the etiquette that follows but in private she is very lax. Rashta told Navier that Navier sprouted wings in her dreams and afterwards her maids laughed and teased Navier about it making flying wings gestures every time they see her despite Navier getting embarrassed. The ones that are classist are literally everyone else including Rashta (who curses and beats up another maid for disrespecting her master). After the Rashta cuteness period wore off the maids ignored her after they found out she is a slave and they became tense when Rashta started acting out. Due to Navier's lax and soft attitude, her maids are loyal and protective of her so they tell Rashta to marry any rich man of her choice and fuck off because she would just bring trouble to Navier who is known for being sweet and forgiving.
I have to disagree with this, hopefully, we can have other opinions and express them politely. I think someone who does not feel comfortable in their power, who is insecure in it and not brought up to it like Rashta is going to overcompensate because she will assume she is being looked down on and that it can be taken away from her at any time. (And to be fair she is looked down upon when people find out she was a slave) And it can. If you naturally know you are superior (or at least believe it like Navier) it doesn't matter what those in lower stations really think. You can afford to be more lenient. You can afford to be calm. You know how to pick your battles. It is like New vs Old money. If you are new, you need to have pointy elbows to make it in society (A good example would be The Gilded Age - anyone else watching that?)
I think theilikepie raises some good points and you don't have to be a Rashta fan to acknowledge them. Navier was raised in a loving family with a protective brother and has no understanding of what being raised as a slave might be like where the only person you can rely on is yourself. Rashta is damaged. Navier does not have the skills to fix that level of damage nor should she have to, nor is she a good enough person to want to (I think). Her interests are in being a good empress which is not necessarily the same thing.
That is a very conditional form of love and I am not sure it is a good thing that she forgives Heinrey for that crime - essentially a war crime but in any case she is in no position to give a just punishment. It is his love for her that gives her power over him. It is to her own benefit to forgive him and encourage him to change his course of action.
In my opinion, this isn't enough to make you, not a classist. There were slave owners who were very kind to their slaves in history but this does not mean they were not slavers and part of a corrupt system. Being a classist does not mean you have to be mean, rude, ungracious etc etc, it fundamentally means that you think there are different classes in society that people should be born to and that they should accept their "lot" in life. At least that is my interpretation. I think Navier really sees it as her lot to be an empress, she was born to it and deserves it.
This is classism exactly, can you not see it? The initial bias of being tense was because she was a slave. Rashta knows she would have to do a lot more than Navier to get respect. And she does not know the right way to get that respect. When you already have power, when you are believed to be better because the station to which you were born is higher, you can be as sweet and forgiving as you like.
This is better than Sovieshu but still not great. I would not treat an abused child the same as say one who came from a loving family and I would not expect the same reactions to me from both. Look at all the courses and resources available to foster carers for example. Obviously growing up in care is different from growing up as a slave but the outcomes for children from care are so much different than children raised in loving families. If we do not allow for people's backgrounds and experiences when dealing with them I don't think we can truly think of ourselves as kind or understanding. Navier does not know how to treat Rashta which is understandable but she doesn't seem to know or care why she doesn't react in the same way as she expects.
That was long! Hope someone finds it interesting though . So much of each character's behavior can be understood from human psychology but in an age where the world should have experienced some form of enlightenment(hard to tell because the webtoon art is everywhere and at every period in time), I can't help but think more people should be concerned about systems of oppression in their own society.
Excuse me, can you tell me the latest episode you mentioned? I'll go back and read it, thanks in advance.
I apologize if I seemed rude, this is the same chick that told me to kill myself because I pointed out the truth before and she didn't like that. First the side story is not my story this was written by the author. Also the Rashta we see in the side story is not OOC. She is exactly the same. She uses the same tactics against her enemies, she is quick to anger, volatile and quick to become violent. Literally when she trashes Granola's room looking for something to blackmail her with she is quick to burst into tears and lie "I didn't do it" when caught, then she cuts herself with a teacup so that Granola's brother could feel sorry for her and take care of her. She is still very much Rashta just that her anger is aimed at somebody else. She also antagonizes Heinrey and cries to Navier when he comes for her and Navier falls for it so she is still good old manipulative Rashta.
Navier doesn't approach Rashta with an "I can fix her attitude" if I mention that I should have worded it better. Navier is not a righteous Disney princess. I am not suggesting she is walking around looking for broken people to fix but once you have her love she will do her best to help you. She is a gray character but I still think she is very light gray. Navier does believe that if you are overly righteous you can't be a successful ruler because people will take advantage of you. She has weaknesses like every other human and I do think she over indulges her friends and loved ones.
Now Rashta was put under her care as her maid and Rashta approached her and talked to her. Navier thought she was a cool chick and they became friends. However I do think Rashta is "special" in Navier eyes. Mainly because Rashta doesn't hold back when talking to Navier and Navier finds that very refreshing because the only other person she can be "real" with is Souvishu. So she becomes very fond of her and even at some point Rashta asks Navier if she loves her and Navier is like yes which is very yikes because they only know each other for like a month but Rashta is trying to bury herself into Navier's heart.
I don't think Navier can be Rashta's therapist and fix her but I simply think that she could guide Rashta to make better decisions for herself as a person that genuinely cares for her because Rashta has never truly had that. So what sets Navier apart from Duke Ergi? From Rashta's point of view they are both trustworthy people guiding her in the right direction right? In my opinion the answer is due to her upbringing Rashta doesn't trust anybody, even people she believes she can trust, it's like in her subconscious and because of that she doesn't have a sense of loyalty at all.
To put it simply she doesn't have any faith in humanity and Duke Ergi (who she believes is her true friend) and Souvishu (who she believes loves her) are human so she betrays them. Remember she sent an assassin to steal a bracelet from Ergi's person, it could have easily escalated into a fight in which he could have been killed. This lack of trust is also part of her downfall (Rashta is somebody blackmailing you?) (Aww look at this cute baby, I wonder whose child he is). Souvishu would have accepted Ahn, he would have put a stop to Roteuchu's blackmail and all her woes would basically be erased.
Now this is where Navier comes in. Navier is some sort of angel goddess being that doesn't poop. To Rashta, Navier is not human, she is pure. Because of this Navier is worthy of actual trust and loyalty from Rashta.This is what Rashta did when she was a slave. She likes to look at Navier's pictures in Rivetti's room and received a gift of Navier's picture from Alan. She was basically a fangirl looking at her idol. Therefore, Rashta would be in a much better place because she would be safe in the West and she would probably at least consider Navier's advice because Rashta trusts her. At some point in their friendship, Rashta is going to realize that Navier is not a goddess and she is in fact human and possibly, just maybe, form actual friendships with other people because just like Navier: they are human too. Again this is what I think the happy Rashta story is implying and how it will come to work to actually save Rashta. I am not the one that wrote it, I am simply making my observations.
Also Navier helps her friends over and over again and most of the times it has nothing to do with her empress duty or gaining something is simply her helping her friends. I guess you could say she is classist because Navier is still an empress and accepts her role as an empress. English is not my first language, classist to me sounds like someone that rigidly follows class. Like not associating with somebody because they are poor or low level. Navier judges a person based on their personality, not their status so she doesn't get offended or mad when she is teased and openly mingles with people deemed below her. I know the maids are classist, they ignored Rashta for being a slaves. They become tense and wary when Rashta started antagonizing Granola because she is under Navier's care so it makes Navier look bad. I really don't think Navier believes she is superior to her maids, I think Navier is forgiving and sweet because she is just forgiving and sweet. Just like she is forgiving and sweet to Heinrey (high noble), to Evelyn (commoner), Rivetti (low noble) and Rashta (slave) etc. You can literally read her thoughts. Also look at my previous comment about Navier and slaves. I basically said Navier was the one most likely to do something about it and why nobody has done anything about it and why it is so easily accepted
We all have our wants when it comes to the characters we read. It doesn't mean that our projection of that character will come true based on our wants or biases. The only thing we can do is to judge these characters, rightly or wrongly based on what we feel, experience or what we value. Asking an already written character to be more or less is a pick of your own poison thing. Either you accept the character, flaws and all, or spend your personal resources to criticize and making that known. Give me a lineup of characters to criticize and I am sure I say a lot to improve or punish them based on my thoughts or feelings with no regards on how that character's background and their development anyway.
There are posters who make slavery in the novel as an anchor of their points. Honestly, I don't speak about the topic since I am not well versed in it (not lived or raised in the West) and it would be more disrespectful (imo) to talk about it when I clearly I am lacking in that subject. Some people here can talk about it in a deep level while I could possible only explore it on theory. I am not that arrogant to be pose as an expert in areas I only have universal understanding of.
And no, I am not using the concept to justify Navier's character. Jeeez. Where did I write that?
While it is a difference in opinion, some posters take it to another level of attacking and accusing people just because of that difference of opinion. If they are being disrespectful or displaying negative traits, that's their flaw and not on others.
So, I am getting here that since Navier as an Empress doesn't necessary beget respect then her efforts that turned out to be good for the majority of the empire doesn't have merit. After all, she is just doing her job.
That's the point, Naiver doing a progressive move doesn't mean she is progressive at all. She just decide that the divorce was the way to get out of the mess. For me, her divorce is a solution- just like Rashta's solution to get along Sovie to escape slavery. You can't fault either woman doing it for their sakes.
IMO, it depends on how increasing annoying, obtuse or other negative traits the poster turns out to be. Surely you cannot fault any poster to be annoyed or think of others less favorably when the other party is bordering on hostility and thinking that online opinions are meant as somewhat personal attacks on them and their values? [/QUOTE]
Sorry I've not checked all the messages, that is bad. People get passionate on both sides which is cool, I love reading all the opinions!
She is a grey character, I agree! To clarify I don't think she is evil or good. I think she is right on that point too.
Yes it is like that tragic heroes or in this case antihero but I can't blame her in the main story for not trusting anyone. Who could with her background?
Ah you see classist to me just means really embracing the social structure. Many nobles would do charity work and might be generally nice people (in a strict way the saw being nice) but they are complicit in a system with limited social mobility and believed people were born to a state in life. For example, English nobles and landowners were expected to be good to their tenants, to be a benevolent Lord/Lady so to speak but they still believed they deserved to be in their place. In the song "All Things Bright and Beautiful" there is this verse that goes:
"The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
God made them, high and lowly,
And ordered their estate."
So I think we've come to it from different definitions/POV . They are in superior positions not necessarily seeing themselves as "superior" but deserving and being divinely appointed to that station.
I guess this is where I am not sure, Navier has had a secure upbringing, if she had the same one as Rashta would she be the same? Probably not. Again nobles would do acts of charity (That is how I see the Evelyn relationship at the beginning). It felt like she was nice to Rivetti to spite Rashta? At least at the beginning, or have I mistaken that perhaps? Either way, Rivetti was awful to her nephew because of his mother, because she was a slave just trying to escape that life. They say the enemy of my enemy is my friend - I don't think that showed her in a good light. It is also said that you can tell a lot from people by who they associate with, someone with those views isn't a good person to me though I appreciate she was young. And for Heinrey we might have to agree to disagree. If I "forgave" a war criminal I'd expect to go down as an accessory for the crime not be called sweet. Nice if I'm in charge though and don't have to face a single consequence for it.
I agree with you that she might be the most likely to do something about slavery maybe that is why I find it disappointing she doesn't. And I don't mean abolishing it.
I am not blaming Rashta for not trusting people, I understand why she is like that. She is meant to be a tragic villain after all, it is hard not to feel bad for her especially after seeing the artist draw her sad pretty baby face with blood coming out if he mouth, the artist and author are basically telling you "you should feel sorry for her". However, there are plenty of slaves that are still kind people (like Catherine I as I just learned) and others that went through some horrible horrible torture and abuse in real life but are still good people (North Korea defectors). Thus, becoming a slave doesn't automatically turn you into a horrible person; I think Rashta was born with a difficult personality but nothing too terrible. However, that combined with her upbringing and a sudden rush of power turned her into a horrible person. Even as a slave Rashta was ostracized by the other slave maids. There was some kind male slave that was giving her advice. Basically, he said that if she was sleeping around with Alan then she should have the right to marry him since he seems to love her and she could be a noble lady. My spidey senses are telling me this is Pix (who got beheaded by Rashta) he freed himself, probably became enraged when he found out Alan broke his promise to marry Rashta and came back to free her before running away to a remote village. There was a time skip and Souvishu who was repulsed by Rashta gave her to Navier since she had no place to go.
As for Navier, the kind of slavery that seemed common in this novel for a young girl was being a slave maid. Navier, who has a workaholic personality, would probably keep herself busy with her maid work. To explain Navier's personality is basically a quiet, intelligent, kind, workaholic, young girl that doesn't like to stand out. As an empress she had to change that but she is still somewhat timid, just doesn't show it. As a slave she would be someone that would easily get taken advantage of because she wouldn't have the confidence she needed to build in order to become an Empress. She would be a lot more wary of people and probably submissive but I think at her core it would still be Navier. Bubblegum was comparing Rashta to Catherine I 's story and I thought that sounds more like if Navier was born a slave because Catherine was a kind woman that built enough support to become an empress after her tyrant husband's death. Oh and slave Kosair would be dead from going on a rampage and decapitating his master unless he survives. This dude has taken on an entire gang of armed bandits by himself so maybe he has a chance to take his sister and run away. Definitely, more likely to start a bloody slave revolution than his dear docile little sister.
As for Rashta even if she was the beloved daughter of a noble she would just act like your typical spoiled ojousan villain. The kind that likes to hide behind a fan and smile. I think she would be able to trust and love other people (probably just her immediate family) but so do most villainesses but she would still have a shitty personality because she would hate being out of the spotlight and she would specially hate a nobody lower class FL outshine her in any way.
You are right, Navier initially approached Rivetti to spite Rashta but once a relationship is established between them her feeling towards Rivetti are genuine even long after Rashta's death and it is because of her that Ahn is rescued (and I don't even like Rivetti at the beginning I thought her seduce Souvishu stunt was dumb, now I am just neutral towards her). As for Evelyn, she is a gifted mage, but even if she wasn't; Navier would still love her. The emperor and empress backbone are the mages but Navier donated towards the orphanage which would benefit kids whether they were magical or not.
Part of Navier's character development is her becoming more selfish and giving into her personal desires over what she was taught to worship. So she forgives Heinrey and covers up his crimes. To be fair she understands too that his crimes are basically her crimes because if the emperor goes down, so does the empress and it jeopardizes her empire as well. I forget what the punishment was, tariffs? No trade? Basically her people would suffer due to Heinrey's actions. Navier is not a Disney princess, she will not watch her husband get taken away and then hold out her hands and say please take me too. She needs a stable empire not just for herself but for her babies too.
She is sweet to Heinrey based on her random acts of love and the length she is willing to go to protect him. Heinrey is also sweet to her, happily cooks for her, cherishes her and pampers her as well. She learned from him and spoils him in return. People claim Heinrey is a Navier simp but Navier simps for him just as hard, it is just not as noticeable because she usually is not the one that initiates affection but she will happily let him continue. She is also painfully aware she is at the mercy of her husband thanks to Souvishu giving her first hand experience. Navier realizes that because she did not submit to Souvishu she ultimately lost her place as an empress. She makes a promise to Heinrey to not get in "his way" and to herself to not fall in love with him but ultimately she gives up trying to "please" Heinrey and chooses to be true to herself and her desires.
A quick google doesn't show me a Catherine I who was a slave? Maybe I missed it because it is a little early here .
The Catherine I have read about was a peasant, raised by a pastor! Which is not the grandest upbringing in the world but far from a slave https://www.britannica.com/biography/Catherine-I. This means she probably would have had a rudimentary education, been taught right from wrong etc etc. A far cry from Rashta who can't even write and knows nothing.
I agree a person can endure terrible things and be great, these people often have great character but some people are great as they have never been tested with truly awful experiences. Bad experiences do not always make a person do bad things but they can and I think it is easy to say we never would or such and such a person never would but you don't know until you are in their shoes. As this is fiction too no historical person would ever be in exactly the same position. Would Rashta be as desperate without having given birth or being betrayed by her first lover? We will never know. I think childhood experiences are very important and not just me but most research will show you that. Yes, Rashta was manipulated too by Duke Ergi so has a lot against her. Ultimately she is written to be tragic and to do terrible things. Personally, if I had written this novel I'd have included other slaves for a comparison so she does not represent her class in the way she does.
I mean nature vs nurture, you can never truly know what someone would be like if raised in a different circumstance. If you have parents who are decent, and bring you up to be hardworking you are more likely (but not always) going to be the same. I don't see much point in speculating on it because we can't know but it depends on what you value. Do you value someone just doing what they are meant to do? I don't value that so much. Being hardworking is a great trait but more important to me is that you are working towards something that is good, that is in accordance with your own values. A diligent maid who does what she is told is a great asset to her employer but I'd admire one who more who strives for me, wants to break free, perhaps wonders why her lot is to be a maid etc etc. Does that make sense? There is nothing intrinsically wrong with just doing what you are meant to but for a character I admire I want more. And that is fine, I am okay with Navier being a bit 'meh' to me.
You are most likely on Kosair but I have another though less likely theory. He might be super strict in enforcing how the other slaves behave, there may be a hierarchy among them? A wise master might elevate a strong slave in his service. I imagine this because he takes such insult and offense to Rashta challenging his sister, the empress which shows me he really cares about this social structure.
With this author, I'd expect nothing less but I do not think she would have to. Growing up with a strong secure attachment to her parents/family she would not feel the need to fight for power or care about being respected so much.Rashta with love and an education could be a vastly different person. That is pretty much all we see of her in the novel however so me trying to speculate would be quite pointless. As the jury is out I guess it depends on do you think some people are predestined to be bad? Do our genes only determine who we will be or how we behave or do you think there is a mix between environment and nurture too? https://www.verywellmind.com/personality-psychology-study-guide-2795699 I tend towards the latter, I think nature and nurture are important.
For me that initial motivation maters. She did it to spite Rahsta, end of sentence. It is no surprise to me they would become friends, Rivetti is someone who would respect Navier just for having been an empress, She will be easy to be friends with and behave in a way Navier expects and can respect and deal with. A true test of character for me is how you deal with a difficult person. Would Navier even know Evelyn if she wasn't a gifted mage first? Again comes down the initial motivation. She donated to the orphanage which is great but not unusual for any rich lady of that time brought up to conform to her social obligations. To quote a famous song, "That don't impress me much."
The funny thing to me is that she was always in a selfish bubble, she just could not see that. She was taught what she must do and just did it without much thought. Now she she does what she wants to do a little more. A good improvement but to me again meh. On Heinrey we will never agree. I don't hate her actions, they are pragmatic, but also self-interested. It is sensible but a person of great character may go against worldly sense to do the right thing. She isn't that person. As you say she is a grey character. I can completely understand why she does what she does and not be too impressed. It is what most people in her position would do. But a better person might look to make reparations to those caught in the crossfire (all of them, not just Eveyln). They might seek to implement laws and treaties that prevent such a thing from happening again etc etc. I don't see a "Disney" princess ever making such a hard choice ever lol. Doing the right thing doesn't always lead to a good outcome but the quality of your character does. When Western slavery was abolished it cost a whole lot of money, it was not an easy choice to make. Slave owners were incredibly angry and had to be compensated (at least in the UK, not sure about the US). The easiest thing in the world for the people in power would be to not do the right thing, it would be the most pragmatic sensible choice. But do I admire them? No. I admire those who took the risk, who took the fall for the greater good. The easiest thing to do is what Navier has done in my opinion. Again it comes down to values, and what you admire. I don't admire winning at all costs (though what annoys me is when fans are happy for Heirnrey to do this and get away with it but not Rashta) and I don't see winning as being in the top spot either. Your country taking a hit and dealing with it because it is the right thing to do is more admirable to me.
Again it is easy to be sweet to people who love you. It is a test of character to be sweet to those who don't. And yes, again on what I said about being self-interested. She is, understandably so. She just isn't a character I personally can admire that much. And that is fine.
But thank you for a very interesting conversation! I love reading your reasonings. I want to make it clear that I do understand the intentions of the characters, I just don't always agree with them or like them. I don't like how Rashta in the main novel was the only slave and how she is written. That is just me though.
Navier is an empress, she is the second most important person in an empire. She has a limited time to meet with people, form trades, partnerships etc and it would be higher ups because higher ups are the ones that are controlling trade, hospitals, news etc. This woman barely has time for herself. The only way for a commoner to personally meet her is if they have something that makes them stand out which Evelyn did, everybody else (including nobles that don't have much to offer) can wait in line to meet her and explain their concerns or woes and this is very important to Navier too but like I said is not like Navier is walking around looking for people to save. She has a scholarship for wizard school, it is only natural for her to offer it to a wizard and is nice that she gave it to a girl that has nothing.
The eastern empire doesn't rely on slaves to be rich, they rely on trade. That's why losing a port is such a massive deal. That's not to say that there is no money from slavery but the main reason for the slave system is that it functions as a morality system and a punishment system. That's why I said their slave system is weird as hell, I wouldn't use real life as an example because it would not be accurate. To them slaves are people that are simply paying back a debt they own or paying for a crime (If you are a non violent criminal, otherwise you hang). Their rules are strict: why is the maid's father on death row? he killed the murderer of his child. It seems like "you kill somebody so now you die too" without taking any consideration to the situation. Primitive, absolutely primitive.
Anyways, if you own money, then you have to work to pay it back and you become a slave until you do. If you are a man you have the right to offer your property (your wife or children) to pay it back because family is seen as a unit and if your parents did something wrong then you have to pay for your parents' crimes as well because family is seen as an unit. The idea that people could be kidnapped to become slaves is illegal slavery (because in their eyes they didn't do anything wrong) and the idea that people could be tricked into becoming a slave by basically giving them a loan that they can't never pay back is illegal as well and the empire fights back against "illegal slavery".
I am not agreeing with it, this is their culture. Imagine arguing with someone from this culture and telling them that this is wrong, "what do you mean this is wrong? If I lend Johnny money then I deserve to have it back and if Johnny can't pay it back then he has to work for it". "What do you mean a man can't use his wife to support his debt? A wife is there to support her husband and children should support their father too they are a family after all" "what do you mean a child shouldn't pay for his parents' crimes, both of the parents have committed a crime, it is only right that the child has to work to make up and apologize to society for his parents' disgrace". What an absolute nightmare that would be to debate with these people. I can imagine my fingertips would bleed from all the typing. This is a sexist backwards patriarchy: Navier would have to be an enlightened Buddha to be able to realize slavery is wrong on her own without being exposed to it and that's why meeting a "nice" Rashta is so important in order for her to take the first steps because she is not even exposed to slaves at all. I know this is common sense to you that's why is very hard to understand how could anyone let this happen. Is nice that she finds it distasteful when everybody else is like "oh this disgusting slave is working near me that's insulting to my job"- a maid.
I also feel like people expect Navier to be mother Teresa Buddha etc or something. If you are mean to me, I am either ignoring you or be mean to you. That's what Navier does, is just called being human. Navier is not a saint. If Navier was any more perfect than she already was she would be Mary Sue and she was already raised to be perfect. The thing about her meeting and befriending Rashta is not her being condescending either. She is simply meeting a girl that was put under her care (Rashta herself said she has nowhere else to go and would like to work under her) they talk, they like each other and they become friends. That's it there is nothing super deep about it. Her guiding Rashta is not being condescending, is like seeing somebody trying to stick a fork into a socket. Wouldn't you stop them and say "hey don't do that, that's dangerous, you could die"
Are people confused about how Rashta is portrayed in the side story? It is basically what would have happened if Rashta didn't sleep with Souvishu. Rashta's admiration for Navier was always there in the main story too. "But dd128, if Rashta admired Navier then why would she fuck her husband?" Because, believe it or not, that would make them "sisters". Rashta would marry her rich handsome saviour (Navier didn't marry him for love after all) and Navier would dote on her cuteness and spoil her and they would love each other too. She would learn to be a real lady like Navier and wear pretty dresses and Navier and Rashta would become family and because Navier is so pure Rashta will be able to actually experience love. That's what Rashta wanted. I know it sounds simple and childish but that's literally what she wanted. She didn't want to be empress, she only agreed to it because she felt like she had no choice but felt like she needed to do a good job so that Navier would come running to her and said "aww you are doing such a good job, let's be sisters"
However the spell is broken and Navier hates her. So she cries and seethes and feels rejected. She tries stalking her a little only for Navier to feel creep out. I wouldn't be surprised if she whined so much to Souvishu to the point that he felt like he needed to fake Navier's gift to her to shut her up and basically force Navier to interact with Rashta. Basically Rashta becomes more and more resentful towards Navier, she becomes more and more obsessed with her and the idea of becoming "sisters". To put it simply, she wants to hurt Navier the way Navier is "hurting her", she wants Navier to suffer like Rashta suffered. She resents that Navier grew up rich with a happy loving family, that she has a happy loving husband, that she is pregnant! That was the only thing Rashta had that Navier didn't: Fertility.
Anyways I appreciate your opinion, my initial argument was about Rashta so I hope I explained her character well. The Navier and Rashta born in different class speculation is purely speculation. I also don't think slave Navier is a good thing because she would be very submissive and that is not good because Heinrey would just walk all over her and completely dominate her. What makes their relationship good is that he treats her as his equal and not above her.
Lmaoo I can't believe it, stupidshu has a fans and trying to find henry mistakes lmao
This is hilarious, I never seen such clowns before.
Listen I just hate all men in this novel and most of the women too. Remarried empress made me a misandarist. You just know that navier and her boy toy would be villilified in the modern era of there world as the slave empress and her simp tryant emperor. Need a john brown figure to take care of them
But it's funny you think heinry hater sare sovhsou fans. You are so coomerbrained that you think everything is this shitty shipping battle going on. God forbid people read this Novel for reasons other then self inserting as a boring mary sue slave empress
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