Discussion So, Aizen ("Bleach") is supposed to be mastermind? Uh, not with this thing he did.

As cunning as Aizen in "Bleach" was, there was something that he did that made him really, really stupid, to say the absolute least. It was something that he overlooked that there was no excuse for him to do. That thing he did was something that he had no excuse doing. He deserved what he got! Aizen really should have thought better but that thing he did proves he really didn't. The thing? Violating the classic rule of "don't understand your opponent(s)".

Even the good guys in series are guilty of underestimating their opponents. Whether or not they deserve what they got for that is debatable because, you know, they are the good guys. If they are anti-heroes, I might lean more so towards a "perhaps".

 

He'll have probably broken a few more rules in Burn the Witch when we find out he knocked someone up to be the parent of one of the annoying edgy characters in the show.

 

Lets be honest, if either side can be omniscent about their opponents, the whole franchise will die off quite quickly, which is why the Shopkeeper is often put on the bench, because knowing and predicting everything correctly might be fun for the first time, it is boring if too many times

 

I am not a series writer but if I was and I wrote multiple series, I would make it a point to have this: In each series, at least 1 of the subordinated of the main antagonist would remind said main antagonist that "It is very unwise to underestimate our enemies. I fear it would have a bad outcome for us". I would apply the same for the subordinates of the good guys!

It doesn't have to be done that many times from either side but at least a few times, even if it was 2-3x at most from both sides. Also, how it is worded is variable but it would have to carry the same gist of what I quoted in the above paragraph. Where and when such a warning is given to either side is the writer's decision.

Also, even something like "Your pride or overconfidence may lead to your downfall!" could also work as it carries a similar message. In "Return of the Jedi", Luke tells Palpatine that Palpatine's overconfidence is Palpatine's weakness. Palpatine replies with Luke's confidence in Luke's friends is Luke's weakness.

 

I think the whole soul reaper society was a mess they practically allowed all 13 court guard to roam free and unhindered while all their subordinates do basically the same and there is like 1 soul reaper per town which is complete retardation in their part.

Who is keep that soul reaper who oversees the town/city in line?
why do they only have 13 court guard when the world has billions dying or have died? they are severely outnumbered and don't have enough ppl employed. the mortal world has so much tech and the soul reaper realm is just as old as the mortal world and these ppl have no surveillance?

They only have 1 intelligence squad and it run by an immature ninja girl?
the 13 court guards can basically duel or play with opponents instead of working together to apprehend them?

Aizen getting an upper hand wasn't because he was too smart they are too sloppy and inefficient the only one who doesn't play games is basically the old man who does nothing but give orders and Rukia's brother who kills most of his enemies in 1-3 episodes.

 

There is quite the creativity in wording about how overconfidence and/or underestimating your opponent are both bad!

@aegis062: Aizen's overconfidence or underestimating his opponent's being a cause of his defeat was accumulated over a long time and not just 1 story arc. Thus, my points here might apply more so from a long-term standpoint (multiple arcs) and not just 1-2 story arcs.

 

But the thing is, in most series where the protagonist is underestimated they literally wouldn't be able to win and the story would end (imagine Aizen sending a Vasto Lord to capture Rukia or kill Ichigo right off the bat, the story would just end) and underestimating the villain is what allows them to become invincible. It's not great writing but it is an important thing for most works of literature to allow stuff to happen and to help suspend disbelief.

 

you have to consider the group dynamics first before saying things like that.

For a group of friends, it's fine to say things like that because there's almost no risk for the speaker to bear.
But for a group like Aizen's, it's different.
Aizen didn't trust anyone and they're not friends, he's the strongest in his group, the smartest, and only looking to benefit himself.
The speaker on the other hand runs the risk of being ignored, alienated, punished or even killed. So why take the unnecessary risk when Aizen has been doing great on his own.

 

When I say the good guys, that is not necessarily limited to the main characters (Ichigo, Rukia, Orihime, Chad, and Uryu in the case of "Bleach). For example, it could include a situation where none of the main team could defeat a monster but some supporting or minor character does. However, I suppose that rule usu. applies to underestimating the main characters.

@SinCity: It doesn't always have to be a speaker of sorts to the main antagonist. Even the antagonist having a thought bubble of "I realized that they are stronger and wiser than I figured them to be" or similar and it being done at least twice could work.

In "Naruto", a bit after Naruto learns the Tailed Beasts' personal names, Obito has a drop of water fall from his mask or cloak as he says something like "Naruto has become stronger than I thought". He claims it was a rain drop. No, it was a sweat drop. Obito was nervous/scared that upon realizing he underestimated Naruto.
a. Even something like the above bit about Obito was a way of saying "I was wrong to underestimate my opponent". So, shout out to Kishi for having Obito getting dealt the "Never underestimate your opponent(s)" card.

 

it became a complete mess with the time skip. I felt the delivery kind of sucked. like how the quincy founder is the son of the soul king somehow and he was the real reason why his mother died because he took away her powers. and then making him have this weird ass geneology with being half quincy with his father being a shinigami and his mother being a quincy infected with a hollow that was partially turned into a shinigami. so he is part human, quincy, shinigami, hollow.

 

Honestly, I never understood the danger of hollows to soul society that they needed it that fortified and have an army of reapers just sitting by standby.

The only way hollows got in was by someone letting them in.

Like we see flashbacks of them being attacked by hollows at other points of the city but we never see a current attack happen unless its by fken aizen.

 

The thing I am talking about and the intent of this thread is Aizen underestimating his opponents! The who, what, where, when, why, and how how underestimated them is how ever big!

 

Aizen was a boring Mary Sue character.

He had no motives. He was pointless when the coolness factor from anonymity was removed.

Pain was a much better sympathetic villain from Naruto.
Frieza a better psycho pure evil villain

 

It is my firm belief up to this day that tite kubo only puts the ‘aizen planned it all’ or ‘aizen is the mastermind’ thing only because it sounded cool for the villain . Too bad, that instead of gaining more infamy as a villain, it actually had the opposite effect. Aizen & Kubo got memed so hard after that. Lmao. I mean, come on, fans aren’t dumb. Some of us read this shit and analyze every little hints/foreshadowing that maybe hiding in plain sight. You cannot just drop something like that on us. It just doesn’t make any sense. And don’t get me started when it was revealed that yami is not 10 espada but actially 0. Then proceeded to get offscreened. Lmao. Only kubo man

 

And Pein/Pain/Nagato was not a Plot no Jutsu wielder like Madara was!

@piknox: The line between a subtle hint/allusion foreshadowing wise and an outright ass-pull is blurred at times!

 

Its always been my belief that Aizen chose his path intentionally. While he may have been influenced by the increase of power he got from his new form at the end of the day his intelligence basically disappeared from that moment on. He turned from a genius who as a normal shinigami managed to flip soul society on its head, to a power hungry arrogant moron. None of this fits with Aizen, but he always wanted to break the 'limit' that was pressed on him. Shinigami had a ceiling, he desired to break the limit by combining the powers of hollow and shinigami. I have also thought maybe he was planning to be reborn through a method to become a quincy with hollow/shinigami powers. In my view of him i would see as he got more strength and touched upon the level of spirit king, he realized that even the spirit king had a limit he was 'bound' within the world hes in, can never truly become a transcendent. He needed a new plan, and locked in jail to think of it then later come out seems just like something the big boss Aizen would do.
After all Aizen is one of the few people who knew completely of what power was hidden in Ichigo because he played a hand in it.

 

The entire premise of Bleach be like-

Aizen: "Everything is within my plan, I even took your (Ichigo) birth into account a few hundred years ago" *evil laugh*
Entire Gotei 13: We also knew what you're planning!
Aizen: "I also knew that you knew!"
Everyone: *pikachu face*
Ichigo: "FINAL GETSUGA TENSHOUUUUU!!!!:"

Juha Bach: "Everything is within my plan, I even took your (Ichigo) birth into account a few thousand years ago along with your mother" *evil laugh*
Entire Gotei 13: We also knew what you're planning!
Juha Bach: "I also knew that you knew!"
Everyone: *pikachu face*
Ichigo: "FINAL GETSUGA TENSHOUUUUU!!!!:"

 

Yet if Aizen was truly smart, he would have at least at one time would have said or thought something like "My opponents are stronger than I realized to be! Me underestimating them was a very stupid thing to do!" AFAIK, he never did. Aizen underestimating his opponents is why I say he is extremely stupid, to put it nicely! This thread is about Aizen underestimating his opponents and thus the reason why his not as smart as he thinks he is! Him getting defeated was in part by underestimating his opponents! I wish Ichigo had killed that manipulative scum bag.

 

It is not underestimating and more like being drunk on power and an absolute confidence after years of planning, analysing the soul society and its people, planting spies and interfering with lots of things then after making a mess in their ranks, he went and built a super powered army in a sense, and to make things worse, he got something that as he said, should make him into a 'god' above all others, a being that transcended the realm of shinigami, holo and humans so to say he believed that by fusing with what the shinigamis feared, he will become unstoppable, his blind faith in himself was the result of his blind trust in lots of actions that he made through many years, in a sense he was a mastermind (although the real mastermind appeared in the end in the manga) that the soul society had to go all out in order to stop him and the MC reached a new level (that will help him later), it was all necessary for the plot development of the story after, if he was anymore 'smarter' than that then he would have won and he might've even become an existence that couldn't be stopped