Discussion So, March 19/20, 2019 truly marked the end of an era.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Kadmos1, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. Kadmos1

    Kadmos1 Well-Known Member

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    The man on the left is William Fox, the founder of the Fox film empire. The man in the middle is Rupert Murdoch, the man who is really responsible for ending that empire as we know it because his more concerned with Fox News and sports channels. The man on the right is ex-Disney boss Bob Iger, who helped Murdoch end the Fox Empire as we knew them. It seems Iger was more interested in getting Fox for the Marvel rights and perhaps even Star Wars than cherish Twentieth Century's storied movie history.

    For those that were more interested in the Disney-Fox merger because you wanted to see Wolverine hang-out with Captain America, shame on you! Cherishing the storied history of what was the 3rd oldest major movie empire (#2 is Paramount after Universal). As I often say, "Shame on Rupert Murdoch for selling off most of the Fox Empire, for the USDOJ permitting a semi-monopoly, and Disney for buying. 1000s of lay-offs are not worth it. Uncle Walt and film producer William Fox would not approve of this merger."

    Let this sink in: Without Mr. Fox, we essentially would no Disney. That is, if he had not gotten the distribution rights to the first dino-centric movie, "Gertie the Dinosaur", we would not really have the first animated character with a personality. Gertie and creator WInsor McCay really influenced Disney. Take those 2 and Fox away and the Disney Empire would basically have never existed. As Walt heavily influenced Osamu Tezuka, without Fox and McCay we might not have had the modern aesthetics of anime as we know it.

    So, March 19/20, 2019 truly marked the end of an era. The end of the Fox Empire as we knew them.

    Photos are from their respective Wikipedia pages.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
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  2. HiroBlaze

    HiroBlaze Well-Known Member

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    If its any consolation, the Disney empire is heading full speed ahead towards ruin too.

    Disney parks closing, Disney big budget movies tanking, Disney still has a 50+ bn debt from buying 20th Century Fox, bad reputation catching up on them from their mishandling of Star Wars, Marvel, etc.

    I probably should care more about them from early childhood films, but I just don't care. One company falls, more will crop up. Osamu Tezuka and other anime studios will inspire many more now.
     
  3. Kadmos1

    Kadmos1 Well-Known Member

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    It is only consolation, to me, if you are against the Disney-Fox merger. Though I am not business expert, the following is a blog on my take on how such a merger SHOULD HAVE gone down: forum.novelupdates.com/blogs/my-take-on-the-then-pending-and-completed-media-mergers-or-buy-outs.2904.
     
  4. 0000000

    0000000 I B SMILING!

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    With every thing in this world moving into despotic future, all I wish for is a Matrix or YGGDRASIL to hook me in and cripple me for life. Shits has gone monopoly and crapass, I fucking thought it is the govt's job to ensure no monopoly because it is pure dictatorship.
     
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  5. HiroBlaze

    HiroBlaze Well-Known Member

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    I was against it from the start. Monopolies are bad for creativity and freedom of expression.

    From personal experience in management. The vast majority of mergers like that end up in failure and both companies are in a worse state than before. Each company has their own corporate culture and combining them both is like dynamite in a bad sense. You will have old and loyal employees leaving the merged company in droves.

    So who wants a merger? The owner's and stock holders that want higher profit margins.
     
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  6. Kadmos1

    Kadmos1 Well-Known Member

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    Coincidentally, today would have been the 119th b-day of Alfred Newman, the guy that made the original music for the famed Fox logo fanfare. His nephew is musician Randy Newman (of Toy Story music fame).
     
  7. BigBadBoi

    BigBadBoi Well-Known Member

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    Disney stock are dropping faster than my sanity playing gacha games that I got hooked to recently. A double Whammy of the retards going woke and Corona-chan destroyed them. If they at least had enough brain cells to decently make the Rise of the Soywalker then they would've probably not be this broke.

    You go woke you get broke
     
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  8. PaiN

    PaiN Well-Known Member

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    i vaguely remember reading a similar thread 3-4 times here:hmm::blobexpressionless::blobunamused:
     
  9. Kadmos1

    Kadmos1 Well-Known Member

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    And now there are reports that Apple wants to buy Disney. Uh, Apple, Amazon, Google, Walmart, Microsoft, AT&T, Comcast, and various companies are way too big to get any bigger like that.

    Uh, I don't think there is a rule against having similar thread ideas provided they are each worded a bit differently.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2020
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  10. DragonMage18

    DragonMage18 Outcast

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    I agree, Disney is to big for it's own good, and it's expansion should have been stoped long ago. Well it's not as bad as some of the tech/food giants...

    The fall of a giant can be good and bad.
    Good in that the land it ocupues is up for grabs and leads to the rise and fall of countless dwarfs (with some growing into giants themself).
    Bad in the way that tens of thousands of peiple loose their jobb, the exonomy takes a hard hit (tho it will mainly only affect the stockmarket if handled properly). And something of great cultural importance will be gone.

    (Yes, I am aware there are more good/bad, but to tired right now... )
     
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  11. Kadmos1

    Kadmos1 Well-Known Member

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    In terms of mergers, if Lionsgate bought out what is left of the MGM Empire, I would be less opposed to that because it would a lot smaller of a buy-out.
     
  12. HiroBlaze

    HiroBlaze Well-Known Member

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    My disdain for Disney started when I found out how they plagiarized Lion King from Kimba (an old television series in 1970-1980's I think?) from an small Japanese indie film studio at the time. The small film company didn't pursue any court battles since they knew it was a quagmire to fight against Disney's army of lawyers, but they did release a public statement.

    Their poor management of the IP is already causing plenty of job losses and market uncertainty. Raising the the prices of Disney Parks above what ordinary families can make in a year (you need to save up for years for a vacation there), giving Star Wars to solely to one gambling company disguised as a game company that barely puts out a new game every year instead of leasing the license to new gaming companies to try their hands every year.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
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  13. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Can you source that part about big budget movies tanking btw?

    Because like... MCU seems to be in a great spot, their "live action" of old movies seem to be in a great spot, and Star Wars seems to be in a great spot too.

    I mean, I hate the new Star Wars and the new Lion King as much as everyone else, but... The number of sales they got was still phenomenal AFAIK. Even with everyone and their mothers badmouthing the movies like crazy, they still sold tons of tickets...

    So uhn... I dunno about the rest of the company, but the movie department seems to be totally fine to me? I would love to see something showed the new star wars trilogy was a failure, but... AFAIK, it wasn't.
     
  14. HiroBlaze

    HiroBlaze Well-Known Member

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    What comes to mind is Onwards currently. The new Star Wars is a failure if you compared it to the past, more so if you adjust for inflation. The core Star Wars fans are leaving, Star Wars toys are being unsold at toy-stores, theme parks are below average. These are all not good signs I would say. Disney even said its "Franchise Fatigue to the stock holders" when its their poor management and treatment of core fans when they criticize them for changing lore or creating fan-fiction. The trilogy is what I would call fan-fiction without any lore to back it up.

    Comic book sales are dropping sharply. The C-virus situation will make a number of these shops close down permanently. The new warriors series trailer is a parody at best and a joke. The marvel movie trends are not... great after End Game and Black Widow. A gender-bent Thor is not something people will take kindly to when they have seen the original. I believe the only Marvel movie that noticeably tanked would be Ant-man iirc. Captain Marvel although sources say it raked in 1bn at most, but I remains once allegations surfaced that Disney inflated the numbers by buying tickets or I could be biased here since I strongly dislike the actress.

    Then there's Mulan many people have issues with from the removal of Shang, Mushu, classic songs, etc. Not to mention the Mulan actresses stance on HK. Instead of creating new IP, remaking them can only take Disney so far creatively speaking.

    Rule 1: You do not badmouth the hand that feeds you (paying customers).
     
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  15. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Oh, I can see that the dedicated Star Wars fanbase is leaving (I didn't watch movie 9 myself, for example.), but the movie sales still seem to be going really well I believe?

    Theme parks and toy stores closing down are certainly red flags though...

    Comic book sales OTOH have been dropping for a long time now I believe? Like, even before Disney bought Marvel I think? It's kinda hard to sell those these days... It's kinda surprising that mangas are still going strong while the comic books are in crisis tbh.

    And yeah, most MCU movies have been doing pretty well so far, hopefully it keeps going strong even after End Game, but I guess we gotta wait and see~

    Regarding the Mulan... Mmmmm, well, I think we shouldn't say much until we see how much it grosses once released... I mean, people badmouthed new Lion King to no end, but it still sold wonders... Much to my dismay...

    In any case, thanks for clarifying! It's much appreciated!

    So uhn... My personal 2 cents with basically no data backing it... I think Disney's movie department is currently fine and kinda carrying the other departments in its back... Maybe Disney might actually need to give up on some of them and focus on the more profitable one.

    But rn, I don't see Disney falling any time soon, it seems like it has a solid standing atm.
     
  16. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    What are you smoking? Disney is making record profits from their movies
    Have you forgotten that they own Marvel?
     
  17. HiroBlaze

    HiroBlaze Well-Known Member

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    @AliceShiki

    One reason for the comic book industry's failure would be the removal of them from stores like gas stations equals less exposure. Another is that comic book writers are divisive figures from rants on social media, rebooting series and character several times. The episodic nature of comics and plots as well as artists and writers not owning the characters themselves. There's a general lack of creative options when an artist does not own a character that he or she writes or draws about.

    Manga is more plot driven and the art style offers more variation among genres. The mangaka generally owns his work, but the publisher has the distributing and adverting rights. You do not generally see too many reboots of manga series, but anime sometimes if fans make an outcry that the anime series did not follow the lore closely. There's also less censorship and more creative freedom in manga.

    Western fans or comic fans in general want escapism and fantasy in entertainment. They do not want to be lectured while enjoying their hobbies. It's like a wealthy celebrity lecturing a working class man or woman how to live their lives. It's kind of insulting in that perspective. American comic books are becoming less about escapism and fantasy (as in colorful super powers) and more about a faculty realism (politics, social issues, religion, ethnics, etc) instead of story telling. That might be why people are abandoning comics for manga.

    One you have an established audience for a medium, if you try to change it to appeal to new crowds you lose the older audience. Then you are back at square one. To be honest its possible that some comic book writers were always jerks in real life, but since social media was limited people rarely saw their true characters.

    Whoa that's a long post.

    @Wujigege

    Profits. However, Revenue minus Expenses equal a net loss or net gain. Disney is in the red after buying Fox. They had to borrow 50bn in order to buy it. A good chunk of their revenue comes from the Disney parks I would say close to 55%. And now those are closed.

    There are a number of movie theaters that are just barely making by with people coming to the theaters less and less. Theaters might permanently close down too like comic book shops. Movie theaters are also closing down. And now that avenue for Disney is closed as well.

    Once a recession hits or hard times follow, entertainment is the first thing that people will cut back on. It's a luxury, not a necessity.

    Statistics are misleading. The numbers reported are usually the numbers made for both domestic and internationally without subtracting the costs for marketing, fees, expenses, and taxes on that number.
     
  18. TooLazyToThink

    TooLazyToThink Well-Known Member

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    Might be the end of era of china
     
  19. Kadmos1

    Kadmos1 Well-Known Member

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    If the USDOJ were actually using their brains correctly, they would have said "Suck it" to this merger, the AT&T/WarnerMedia, and various other mergers. Did those morons at the USDOJ forget about the Edison Trust, William Fox's attempted buy-out of MGM, and the classical Hollywood studio system?