Discussion The Abandoned Empress

Discussion in 'Novel Discussion' started by flamingorangesoof, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Emile

    Emile Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2020
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    25
    Reading List:
    Link
    The “It wasn’t really me who abused you, babe, it was the drugs” is reminiscent of alcoholic abusers and I don’t buy it as an effective plot device. It is not only cheap—it is also dangerous, as it conditions readers to slowly accept this kind of insidious behavior in real life. The pre-timewarp emperor was not erratic or “not like himself”; he clearly calculated his actions (e.g. speaking sweetly to Jieun, sending her away, and switching smoothly to threatening Tia) and was in control of himself. He made the conscious choice to force himself on Tia. I feel as though this drugs arc is being introduced because “I abused you because your mother protected you instead of me, boo-hoo” wasn’t enough to wash the taste of pre-timewarp emperor out of our collective mouths.

    Also, I don’t understand why Tia constantly flip flops between “I don’t want to be empress” and “oh no what if I can’t be the empress :(?" I understand if she’s concerned about the political sphere but if that’s the case then she’d be a lot more practical about it rather than “oh no why does my heart beat so fast around my past abuser?”.

    Oh but wait no he’s not the same abusive guy you knew before, he’s nicer now. And he’s not taking harmful substances anymore. He won’t do all that again, baby. He’s changed, because you’re better than before. He was like that because you weren’t good enough then, but now you are. It won’t happen again. Give him another chance. I mean he planted a kiss on you out of nowhere but that doesn’t mean he’s the same guy who invoked “marital rights” by pinning your arms to the wall. It’s not like this kind of red flag behavior emerges gradually and insidiously like that. He disrespects your choices by wishing that you’d become his empress instead of inheriting your family’s title, but isn’t he so sweet for doing that? He just loves you so much!

    It’s disgusting.
     
    Grace34, theilikepie, WinnieS and 8 others like this.
  2. morranstillscaresme

    morranstillscaresme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2021
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    383
    Reading List:
    Link
    jesus, if the next heads for the throne are people like these, I wonder how would that kingdom fare.

    i feel really bad for their people, having to rest their lives on the shoulders of a dumbass
     
  3. Chutori

    Chutori Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    30
    Reading List:
    Link
    I sincerely hate Aristia and Ruve, yes, I hate both.

    In short: Tia is just a Muggle woman who is obsessed with toxic love in both lines and thinks her love is the purest, Ruve is the human scum he hasn't changed at all and even if he did I would never marry him, Carsein he is great and sacrificed himself several times for Tia but he was still rejected, Allen I hate the yandere part but aside from that he is a guy who was always there when Tia needed it, Jieun is just another victim who was used and manipulated in an unknown world and when she wanted her revenge she was considered a villain.

    Ok Tia can forgive Ruve and consider that he is not the same but that does not mean marrying him and living with a guy who made her suffer. She could have another family with someone who makes her happy and talk to Ruve like "I hate you and I have my reasons, I suffered a lot because of you. I consider you different from the past but I want to be happy with my family, goodbye" everything would be resolved but since Ruve has his brilliant protagonist halo and a script armor he is considered the good guy in the story
    The author shit with all the developments of characters like Jieun, Carsein and Allen. She just focused on Aristia's sickly love with Ruve

    This is one of the worst trashy novels and even if you come up with your third-rate excuses it doesn't change anything. History with several holes, badly developed characters, romance with victim and abuser and several other points. Now I'm going to see people cursing me for saying all of this lol :blobpopcorn::blobcozy:
     
    WinnieS, BaiYihan, seoktonin and 4 others like this.
  4. kikurie

    kikurie Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    4
    Reading List:
    Link
    I read the novel, but ended up dropping it about 20-30 chapters where the manwha is currently at.

    I can't stand Arista the more we keep going. She constantly is in this weird hot and cold towards everyone. So she's COMPLETELY hostile to Jieun. She doesn't try to talk to her to see what happened before to make Jieun become so bitter now. Nah, but Ruve, he's so different now, I'm doubting. It's infuriating.

    And just reading ahead, just made me fed up and upset. I honestly just feel bad for the other side male characters and Jieun.The story came out strong with a lot of potential, I was seriously hoping she wouldn't up being swayed by Ruve. But nope, her flip flopping makes it worse and the way she treats Caresin is just awful.

    Maybe it's just me, but this is one of those power trip stories that missed the point. Falls short because Tia has a weak resolve towards Ruve, despite ALL THE THAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST. Getting back is fine, but just stick with it, communicate dammit. Not will she, or won't she. It's obvious that she's going to end up with him.
     
  5. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    259
    Reading List:
    Link
    The author tries to use drugs to make us pity Ruve and justify why he should be the ML. While I understand that the prince in MC's 1st and 2nd are different people, I can't understand why the MC would ever like him again.
    It's like getting back with an abusive ex who has harmed you and could hurt you again -____-

    OH WAIT THERE'S A GOD WHO SAYS THAT MC WILL ALWAYS AND INEVITABLY LOVE THE PRINCE w0w the power of ~Fate~ pog
    No more free will.
     
    WinnieS and Mis Occ like this.
  6. derlethlovecraft

    derlethlovecraft New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2021
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reading List:
    Link
    Holy shiz. I knew it. The moment when the prince had his coming of age ceremony and they danced. I knew they were getting back together so I jumped on to look for spoilers and I was riiiight. I didn't want to be right :sick:
     
  7. Kezi

    Kezi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2020
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    159
    Reading List:
    Link
    I've just re-read the novel extra from 1st timeline Ruve's pov. I'm always coming across comments from people who dropped the story early and are spreading misinformation from out of context spoilers, so I wanted to re-read that side story to refresh my memory for when I correct them.

    Anyway, I gotta say, the 1st timeline could've only ever ended in tragedy. It's like, the perfect storm of misunderstandings, misunderstandings that come so close to being fixed but never quite reach it. Tia and Ruve are reading so wrongly into each other's actions and emotions, and instead of helping to guide these literal children into a stable adulthood, the adults are either too incompetent, too clueless, too selfish, or too evil to help. I mean, how does no one of the Royal faction, the emperor's supposedly competent aides, notice Duke Jenna, the leader of the enemy noble faction, whispering sweet nothings into the crown Prince's head? How does the emperor, praised for his wisdom, not realize that laying only criticisms upon your son and praise upon his fiancee will cause a rift between them? How was Duke Jenna of all people able to sensitively pick out the crown prince's weakness, his commoner blood, while the Royal faction, the faction that needs a strong, wise, confident future emperor, never noticed that he felt insecure about that? I mean, look at his thoughts before he rapes her

    "The way she looked down at me and spoke to me as if to remind me that she was different from me who had commoner’s blood was testing my patience and reason.

    Oh, you were a woman like that from the beginning. Unlike me, who was always ignored because I was clumsy, you were always praised for your excellence. You received everyone’s love when I was craving for their attention. Nevertheless, you just focused on what you were doing, while belittling everything I could not have despite my hard efforts.

    Yes, you were a woman like this, a doll-like woman made only for the emperor. All right, as you treated me like a stallion, let me sow a seed in you."

    How could this end in anyway other than tragedy?
     
  8. tamakosan

    tamakosan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    110
    Reading List:
    Link
    because it not make any sense just stop try to make sense out it, it will be fine.
     
    Lamune44 likes this.
  9. Nagisa11

    Nagisa11 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2019
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    73
    Reading List:
    Link
    honesty this comment of yours is rage inducing for some reason, I know I should walk away but a part of me doesn’t want to lol, times like these where I wish this forum had a dislike button, than I’d dislike and walk away. I’ve read the story and honesty it left a bad taste in my mouth. It’s trash, trash at it’s peak. Yea the first timeline is a tragedy but a poorly written one. The second timeline is even shitter.

    so what’s wrong with this story you may ask? Well that’d be a whole packaged to unpack, and I don’t wanna remember, the problem is the way the story presents itself. So what we’re supposed to forget everything the prince did, cause what he was a affectionate deprived spoiled brat,? he felt threatened by mc and all that she had?, he a man of privilege should be forgiven cause guess what he was dumb prince who got manipulated? . What the story is conveying is that a women should be okey with rape, should be okey with the abuse she suffered in the first timeline cause guess what, in what life would a victim re falls in love with her abuser? Only in the world of novels. I’m using re fall in love cause mc never fall out of love with that piece of shit.

    The abandoned empress is rooted deep in misogynistic ideologies, and what’s even worse the character i hated the most is mc herself, I’m not even gonna do her the favor of using her name. What was she? I feel like I should do a character Analysis on everything that was wrong with her. she has to be one of the worst fmc I’ve ever came across. Sure the first timeline was a poorly written tragedy, the second timeline was even worse and I pity you if you defend the ml and sum up his actions on the note that “he was a child who need affections and got manipulated”.
    Ew just thinking of this trash of a story is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  10. Kezi

    Kezi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2020
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    159
    Reading List:
    Link
    This is one of those stories where different people are going to read it and get different messages/themes/feelings etc from it. I thought Tia was a perfectly serviceable fl, occasionally frustrating, but overall the author expressed her emotions pretty good, so even when I didn't agree with her actions, I understood why she, as a character, did it. I'm not the type of reader that has to agree with the main character's actions, I just have to understand it, and see the natural consequences from it. I personally wouldn't touch Ruve with a 10ft pole, but Tia, the character, has overcome her trauma and honestly sees him as a different person. Good for her. Fate wins again I guess.
     
  11. Mis Occ

    Mis Occ Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2020
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    56
    Reading List:
    Link
    Again, this story honestly left a bad taste in my mouth. It’s trash, trash at it’s peak. Yea the first timeline is a tragedy but a poorly written one. The second timeline is even shitter.

    so what’s wrong with this story you may ask? Well that’d be a whole packaged to unpack, and I don’t wanna remember, the problem is the way the story presents itself. So what we’re supposed to forget everything the prince did, cause what he was a affectionate deprived spoiled brat,? he felt threatened by mc and all that she had?, he a man of privilege should be forgiven cause guess what he was dumb prince who got manipulated? . What the story is conveying is that a women should be okey with rape, should be okey with the abuse she suffered in the first timeline cause guess what, in what life would a victim re falls in love with her abuser? Only in the world of novels. I’m using re fall in love cause mc never fall out of love with that piece of shit.

    The abandoned empress is rooted deep in misogynistic ideologies, and what’s even worse the character i hated the most is mc herself, I’m not even gonna do her the favor of using her name. What was she? I feel like I should do a character Analysis on everything that was wrong with her. she has to be one of the worst fmc I’ve ever came across. Sure the first timeline was a poorly written tragedy, the second timeline was even worse and I pity you if you defend the ml and sum up his actions on the note that “he was a child who need affections and got manipulated”.
    Ew just thinking of this trash of a story is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
     
  12. Emile

    Emile Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2020
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    25
    Reading List:
    Link
    You see the problem with these type of stories where the protagonist goes back to the past and in the end, still ends up with her past abuser with the excuse of "he's changed, he's not the same person as he was in the past" is that it romanticizes past trauma, toxic relationships, and abusive behavior which is not and will never be a good reading material. Your pain or even a drug, although explains it, is never an excuse to abuse another. Moreover, the characters don't feel real at all, they just serve as a plot device so the audience's sympathy would fall on the female protagonist. Having side characters as a plot device isn't a bad thing yes but your main cast shouldn't just serve as some plot device, sadly in this case, they do.

    While we don't blame the characters for turning into what they are, it is ultimately the author's fault. Stories involving emotional abuse and healing over it takes a lot of emotional maturity. As a writer, you have the responsibility to take proper care of the themes you want to portray in order to not send the wrong message to your audience. Stories shape worldviews, folks.

    So I caution you, only read this if you want an example of what bad writing is, how some things have the tendency to be romanticized, how the characters only serve as a plot device for the protagonist, and how the author failed to deliver her story's chosen themes properly.
     
  13. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    259
    Reading List:
    Link
    The manhwa finally ended. Thank goodness the artist is finally free.

    In conclusion:
    Such a powerful beginning, only to end with disappointment.

    I think a lot of markers touched up on why the story itself was disappointing. Evidently, people will either like the ML or not. But if you come to understand that Ari's main PTSD symptom (predominantly flashbacks) is actually an extremely severe symptom, then it begs the question as to how she was able to overcome her trauma after reading Allen's letter and literally talking to herself. Trauma is not to be taken lightly, and to write about it, one should have enough sense to research the topic thoroughly so to portray it properly.

    But this is something I think I disliked the absolute most about this series: she never had a choice.In chapter 9, you see a scene of Ruve crying over Aristia. In chapter 142, you see that same scene. So, if the ending was predetermined since she was 10, Ari never 'escaped' her fate; Pioneer means nothing. Conclusively, this story speaks on how one cannot escape their fate. Well then damn, what was the point?

    And one last thing: Aristia's love was never real. We learn this in chapter 9. Her love was a substitute for Jieun's, who was dumped in another world at the fault of Vita. So then, what was the point of such information when she slowly begins to fall in love with Ruve in the second life? Is it to show that her love is free from the ties of fate? But such cannot be, since Ari is still strung along to the chaotic god's fate game.

    I only granted this series two stars, mainly for how it started, and for its art. Drawing these kinds of strips takes long hours, and all artists should be respected for putting their effort.

    If you are a new reader, take caution. The story in the beginning gives off a deceitful tone of Aristia leading her fate and striving to become a strong, powerful knight and heir to her house. However, we barely see Aristia's capabilities as a knight, and even Carsein's, who is thought to be the genius swordsman of the empire.

    A Real Modern Tragedy
     
    Captain Peanuts and BaiYihan like this.
  14. Captain Peanuts

    Captain Peanuts Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Reading List:
    Link
    It's understandable why alot of people dislike the flow of the story (especially the ending).

    If the Ruve from the first timeline was different from the second timeline, then okay. Thats it. He's a different person. Nobody could refute that he is considerably less shitty than the first timeline Ruve, and 2nd timeline Ruve is redeemable.

    But here comes the messed up part. Tia experienced insane abuse from 1st timeline Ruve. And not just 'I ignored you and didn't love you' abuse. Physically, mental and emotional trauma. From a Ruve that was drugged to apparently specifically hate on Tia, and ONLY Tia (which is already farfetched, but for the sake of arguement, fine let's accept it). And from my perspective, this is the reason why I think readers absolutely HATED IT.

    Even if Ruve was a completely different person, and treated Tia differently, if this was a real life setting, Tia would still inevitable hate and scorn him because trauma like that doesn't disappear that easily.

    For example, if you were in an incredibly abusive relationship in real life, where your partner is the literal incarnation of the devil (like cheating on you openly, raping you and making you miscarriage your child, and to put the cherry on top, killed you and your family), and then suddenly went back in time before all that happened, the trauma alone would cause any person to go bat-shit crazy and paranoid.

    Even if I knew that that person was a different version of themselves, the memories would NEVER go away. I would forever have flashbacks of what happened in my first life with that person, and truth be told, I would never be able to love them, let alone be with them in the same room even if they were a completely different person than before, because THAT'S how trauma works. The memories alone will make you sick, even if you do it unknowingly.

    Tia's journey to become a knight and her gradual character development was completely overshadowed by the shit ending of this novel. Hell, it would have been a satisfying ending if she only kept Ruve as an acquaintance and at most, as a friend since in the beginning it was HER that vowed to never love him again and he really was a decent person in the second timeline. It's just too bad her resolve wasn't strong enough after all.
     
    Nagisa11 likes this.
  15. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    259
    Reading List:
    Link
    True! +1

    We were given, in the beginning of this story, a hopeful and new start to her life. A green and red haird cuties that ISN'T the same guy that abused her, an inspiring plan to become the head knight of her family just like her dad, and a SOLID PLAN TO AVOID AND NOT END UP WITH THE SAME GUY THAT ABUSED HER.


    AND YET. She still somehow FALLS IN LOVE WITH THAT SAME GUY DESPITE TWO (mostly just one, cuz let's be honest. Vegetable hair is kinda iffy) POSSIBLE CANDIDATES FOR LOVE. Like, ffs. Ok, this isn't my first rodeo in these kinds of stories since I've read Palace of Bardo, God of Pains Bride, Killing Stalking, etc. I'm honestly open to these kinds of things AS LONG AS THEYRE WRITTEN WELL.


    Cuz while reading this, I honestly asked myself "Why do I hate this more even though I've read stuff like Palace of Bardo?" And that's when it hit me. Its because of the way Palace of Bardo was written. And by that, I mean HE HATED his abuser. Like her, he knew about his past with the Emperor and tried to get away from him and obviously hated him. He also explicitly showed how he suffered under his hands and how traumatized he is


    With Aristia, she was obviously scared of him but it didn't feel like he hated the man that did so much damage to her enough because a mere few chapters later , it's almost like she forgot her trauma and was suddenly buddy buddy with him. Palace of Bardo addresses what the emperor had done to him in way that feel grounded and realistic.


    And it's just sad thinking that this couldve been better. Because I was so hopeful about this story.

    Its very understandable that people are justifiably upset over a story that they had high hopes for. Most importantly when it was written in such a way that we would actually hope that she'd do better. Like, we seriously have valid arguments as to why we dont want them together from both a moral standpoint to a writing standpoint.


    Tbh, I'm truly just disappointed rather than mad. I'm disappointed that this ended up the way it did because this had the chance to become something wonderful but ended up with such a bad ending. I imagined her being a powerful, strong woman who lives a whole new better life far from her previous one. It's just sad at this point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  16. AbrarMalik

    AbrarMalik Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2019
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    185
    Reading List:
    Link
    how can one discuss a manhwa so much?
     
  17. Saorihirai

    Saorihirai Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2020
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    224
    Reading List:
    Link
    wow I kind of dropped it cuz I forgot what chapter I was on and got distracted but maybe I should pick it back up? Seems like a lot of tea :hmm: Btw is the novel more ahead or the manhwa? I remember reading the manhwa quite a while ago
     
  18. joykiller91

    joykiller91 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2021
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reading List:
    Link
    Just my 2 cents. Read this without thinking it's romance it'll be better X)

    I only noticed on 2nd read (or well remembered) how just at start we were already told of the end... the rain scene with the Prince crying over her. So basically any sort of "Pioneer" "Changing fate" is null and void because fate was already decided beforehand. This is just then a tragic drama story of the main characters fates being replayed by god because the first time got fcked up.. so god can do a replay to you know "save" a lot of lives. :blobjoy:

    Tldr of the plotline: This is like an otome game with one running bachelor where you get the bad end to unlock the good end.

    Tbh the only romantic part for me (for the mcs) where I went like "awww" was when T2 prince did a blood oath but that's about it.

    Anyway the best part and defo worth the read and why I read it is the rest of the cast. Papa Monique, the soldiers, the maids, the knights. If this was some SOL about their devotion to their lady Tia it would've been perfect fluff!
     
  19. Grace34

    Grace34 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2021
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    42
    Reading List:
    Link
    There are so many bad implications in this story, it would take 6 threads just to scratch the surface.

    The fact that the ml basically gets plot armour and gets to excuse his behaviour is just so unreal to me, I could not believe he was the ml when I read some spoilers. Also, imo, the fl should have just not ended up with him either way, because I doubt she would have been able to move past such trauma with basically no change on his part, just a revelation that he was actually under the influence of the drug.

    Also a problem that arises with time travel stories like this is that it given the unintentional message that the fl was responsible for everything. The only thing that changes is the fl. Everything that changes changes because the fl changed, so there is the implication, however unintentional, that if she had acted a certain way in the first timeline, she would have evaded tragedy.
     
  20. David001

    David001 New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2021
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reading List:
    Link
    Hi. Any recommendation for read light novels? Are they worth reading and what's your all time favorite novel.