Discussion The Abandoned Empress

Discussion in 'Novel Discussion' started by flamingorangesoof, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Most stories don't actively strive to be 100% historically accurate, but that also doesn't mean that they will totally and completely abandon any semblance of historical accuracy.

    Psychologists and psychiatrists are modern professions, it's a given that in a medi-fantasy setting they won't exist. The characters have to deal with their traumas mostly on their own and by relying on their loved ones.

    I don't see why you think that obvious stuff being done off-screen is pathetic or lazy though. Yes, it is a flaw of the narrative, because it was an important plot point that wasn't given the right attention to, but it's still obvious that Tia did go through a process throughout the years where she had to learn how to cope with her own traumatic experience. This did happen off-screen and it's about as obvious as knowing that Tia went to the bathroom off-screen.

    Is it good writing to leave an important part of the story happening off-screen? No. Did it happen anyways? Absolutely. It's just plain obvious.

    Also, ad hominem does not make your point any better. I suggest you refrain from using it.
     
  2. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Well-Known Member

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    The author decided to incorporate such themes in the story, and it's such an important part of the FL that it gets highlighted frequently to allow empathy. To say that all of her healing happened off screen is such cope out. The one thing it tells is how the author is ignorant in psychology.

    And then were left to think that she just healed on her own off screen? A cope out clearly. If you keep defending how poorly written such theme was then many will think you're just a blind fan follower. :blobconfused:
    To quote @Xylade
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
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  3. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    I mean, it's the obvious conclusion. Call it a cope out if you want, but it's still the obvious conclusion.
    And then we get back to the fact that Timeline 2 Ruve did nothing of that, so Tia could totally accept that fact as reality if given enough time... Since yanno, the person that traumatized her is not around anymore.
     
  4. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Well-Known Member

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    Because it is a cope out, I can already tell majority thinks so too. Such an important theme just to be left around to be solved off screen. That's what you call poorly written.
    Ruve and Tia is still a toxic pair.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
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  5. Mis Occ

    Mis Occ Well-Known Member

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    Let's not forget the dumb retarded FL, whose character is frustrating as a person. She relives her life with a vow to live her life for her herself and to the fullest, is supposedly smart enough to basically rule a country on her own and is publicly blessed by the gods and...does nothing with all those benefits. The last time a real-life person was publicly blessed by the gods, she ended up leading the French to victory and getting herself canonized by the church and she was an illiterate peasant girl. I just was hoping for her to do something interesting and different with her life and she...doesn't.

    Going with the guy who abused her in the 1st TL is just the shit cherry on top of the shit sundae that is Aristia.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
  6. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    I don't necessarily disagree, I'm just saying that Tia working through her trauma was still something that definitely happened.
    I definitely do think that this aspect of the novel/webtoon was poorly written.
    On this I'll disagree, because by the time they do become a pair, they already solved out their issues and Tia willingly got together with Ruve even though he had finally decided to actually respect her will and get rid of the engagement.

    If he had forced it on her at the end, then I'd agree with it being toxic. And I definitely do think that his behavior leading up to the end was toxic as he was abusing his position to force Tia to stay by his side... But the pair wasn't toxic at the end IMO.
    I mean, she is still limited by her position, so there is a limit to how much she can do by being smart... And while she has a blessing of the gods, so does the isekai'd girl, so... Well, I think there are limits to what she could do.

    And well, Ruve on the 1st timeline and 2nd timeline are different people, so she didn't end up together with the guy that abused her... Though well, I think everyone would prefer if she ended with the red-haired guy instead~
     
  7. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Well-Known Member

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    They're still toxic. Not because of Ruve, but simply because Tia's trauma from first tl doesn't magically disappear (cough on the emperor's lap cough) just because second tl Ruve became a decent person. She was raped. Abused Multiple times throughout the years. He killed her dad, or he makes her think he did, which makes her go crazy. He caused her miscarriage. We witness all of that, the desperation she felt. We also witness her being terrified at the mere sight of him.

    All this PTSD and resentment shouldn't have allowed for a romance to take place between these two. It cheapens her scars. That's why it's toxic.

    (The only otome isekai that addresses this trope of "magically moving on from trauma because ML is now a decent person" is Angelic Lady)

    Also, second tl Ruve was still hella selfish. He almost forced his feelings on her towards the end, squashing her own aspirations.
     
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  8. Kumo723

    Kumo723 Star Jade DouLuo

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    Even a simple sentence as 2nd TL Ruve hating 1st TL Ruve would've satisfy me but nooooooooo. Then what's the point of all that first TL stuff in the first place if ur just gonna make it irrelevant after the middle of the novel??
     
  9. Kumo723

    Kumo723 Star Jade DouLuo

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    again, this thread or the forum is simply about "liking" something. Its about about discussing that thing and discussing doesnt equal liking
     
  10. KindapitiedMielle

    KindapitiedMielle Well-Known Member

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    Because there was probably no need for that sentence to be there. There was enough info about 2nd TL Ruve to know that if he ever found out that someone had done that, he would've wanted to rip them apart. You don't need specific lines about stuff like that when you already know and it's pretty obvious. It's like those polls people do on Instagram or those share things where it's like “Share this if you're against SA or Rape” like wtf it's something so obvious that you don't need to say it for people to know.
     
  11. Kumo723

    Kumo723 Star Jade DouLuo

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    I DON'T know. How WOULD I know??
     
  12. Freija

    Freija Well-Known Member

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    discussion implies the exchange of ideas between two parties, not someone stating their opinion as an objective fact or being a massive asshole.
     
  13. Kumo723

    Kumo723 Star Jade DouLuo

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    nobody's being an ass, its u being a snowflake and a biased fan
     
  14. KindapitiedMielle

    KindapitiedMielle Well-Known Member

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    Uhh, by actually reading the novel instead of accepting people's biased spoilers and opinions as the truth.
     
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  15. Kumo723

    Kumo723 Star Jade DouLuo

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    i did read it. Ur just reading it from ur biased point of view and intercepting it the way u want it to. This is what i see when I wanted Be Reborn. A lot of ppl complained about the ML's acting being lack of expressions. Even as a fan of him, I'm still shocked by the way some ppl intercept it. I see ppl say "This is a sign of split personality" etc etc this is exactly what u Ruve stans r doing. How would I know he thinks that if the novel don't show any form of indication?
     
  16. Genesal

    Genesal New Member

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    This story has got to be where I've read one of the most r3t@rded FL & ML ever in a manhwa. (aside from the garbage Emperor's Lap)

    The FL experienced something horrible all humans can never forget, all those years of abuse (verbal and emotional) and sexual assault, she was even told by their useless god that her feelings were merely controlled by fate and yet in the 2nd timeline we can see she still clings to these disgusting feelings (Like 'are we not meant to be after all?' 'looking at said ML with longing' )after said ML changed but only because she changed first and became his type. :blobastonished:

    The dumb@ss ML is also very annoying and selfish and clearly doesn't deserve her as he only let go of their engagement after the FL almost died again. :blob_thor:

    Did I mention that the FL being a knight is just a nonsensical title given by the author? She allegedly performs the best among the knights and yet in the end still being saved by the MLs. Isn't that absolutely pathetic? She's clearly like the FLs on those nasty Chinese CEO stories, Weak and a Pushover... you can see that in the end after the oath in the novel where i heard the ML pushes his selfish desires on the FL and she doesn't ever really care that she being somewhat coerced.
    Well, in the end, they both deserve each other as they are both a r3t@rd like the author.

    Sorry, but I'm just not r3t@rded enough to like stories like these.
     
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  17. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    Always funny to see this still get bumped even now just because some people hate the developments and the characters~
     
  18. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Well-Known Member

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    Still funny to see how the minority defending this silly story missed the point on why this thread was created in the first place. Lmao
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022 at 12:56 AM
  19. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』

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    The story sold well, enough to get a webtoon adaptation even.

    The minority are the haters. It wouldn't have gotten an adaptation otherwise.

    That said, the point I was making was more that the story has been out for way too long by now, so it's funny to see people bumping those old threads just to vent.
     
  20. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Well-Known Member

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    That's your opinion that it sold well. Many think otherwise.

    I beg to differ, Majority hated the story especially that ending. You can see the poor ratings of AE here on Novel Updates. I also remembered seeing full of critical negative reviews of it on bato to.

    Anyways, I was trying to say that people who read it initially are deceived by what seems to be a good premise but got an abysmal execution of story, and an awful ending so it's not surprising to see users (also new users) of NU who read completed stories vent here as this is what the thread is all about.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022 at 4:18 PM