Discussion in 'Novel Discussion' started by flamingorangesoof, Mar 26, 2020.
If you ask some reviewers I am the toxic one, so... I just can't hide how much I hated the story.
Well at least u are being reasonable...
I agree. Ruve's redemption arc starts from as early as chapter 19.
Out of all the MLs, Ruve's "tragic" backstory is the first one that we have to read. Not Allen's, and certainly not Carsein's (who's introduced waay later in chapter 28). Understandably, when I first read it, I thought "Why the fuck are we getting his story first instead of Allen's or Carsein's? What's the author trying to do here?"
As I kept on reading, it became blatantly obvious that the author is trying reeeaalllll hard to appeal Ruve to the readers. He gets more and more screen time, he's the only one who acts all cool and shit (typical of ML), he gets a sad backstory, etc.
Remember this: The author has complete control over what is and isn't revealed in her story. So the fact that she keeps throwing pity parties for Ruve and making Tia forgive him so easily in the beginning were big red flags for me.
I could imagine the author going "See? He's a different person from before! People can change!! Do you see how good he treats her now??????" Aye aye, captain. We get the hint.
To some people, the author clearly succeeded in making them root for Ruve. Because I've noticed that the other side's arguments always revolve around Ruve, Ruve, and Ruve.
BOI have you forgotten who the main character is? It is Tia, not Ruve. I've said this before and I'll keep saying it until y'all finally understand: Put yourself in Tia's shoes, please. TIA'S! NOT RUVE'S! Goddamn. Forget about his weird ass redemption story. When you truly do that, you'll see how Tia's choices make zero sense.
As I explained previously:
It makes no sense when she forgives Ruve so easily.
It makes no sense when she doesn't try to avenge her father and unborn baby at least once in the second timeline.
After what had been done to her, she holds no disgust towards him, no suspicion, no hatred.
IS SHE MOTHER THERESA? IS SHE A DIRECT DESCENDANT OF GANDHI? Author pls explain.
"Being completely ignored, raped, replaced, disrespected, and killed by the prince should not be simply overwritten by a few moments of affection. These moments should've left permanent scars."
Some would argue: but ML (2nd) truly loves her and would do anything for her! He'd even waited a long time before she finally accepted him! Do you really think she should have ignored that?
Yes. A sane person with enough self-respect would have.
A functioning adult would have strongly encouraged her to.
Fuck love. Your mental health should always come first. Don't fight me on this.
Listen. I know there are tons of trashy webtoons/webnovels out there (the chinese CEO ones are a good example). Difference is, I would never read any of those because I know from reading the summary or the first chapter that the FL only has one functioning braincell when it concerns the ML.
With TAE, I got invested real quick. The first six chapters got me so riled up I couldn't wait to see Tia plot her well deserved revenge. Imagine how disappointed I was when I found out that this story isn't that much different from those trashy CEO novels, after all.
If the author wishes to make a story again involving mental trauma, I hope she does an even more extensive research before writing down anything.
Don't try to tackle mental health problems half-heartedly, because this is what you get: a s h i t s h o w.
Cheers. Adios. Godspeed.
What's the point in trying to use horrible situations like rape and murder to make the MCs more pitiful but then throwing that all away and trying to justify it with plot armor? Not only is it an incredibly shitty portrayal of how one copes with PTSD and trauma, but it's just a bad way to create a story that seems to focus on healing from the past and moving forward. It's a slap in the face to SA survivors and those with PTSD in general.
I'd be more than happy if the MC was finding healthy ways to cope with her trauma and perhaps even moving on from her previous memories, but also acknowledging that despite the prince's actions were wrong and that she is in no way obligated to forgive him for murdering her father, raping her, abandoning her, and letting her die so horribly. Even if he was drugged, that still does not make his actions any right; it's akin to a drunk driver or a person assaulting someone while under the influence, it's still a crime and trying to excuse his behavior and actions is just sick and vile.
Yes, it may be an "alternate universe" where he raped, humiliated, tortured, and killed her, but that doesn't mean it's not the same guy who treated her with the same amount of contempt in the "future" and when she's reliving her second life. If anything, he STILL treats her like garbage until he gets it through his stupid fucking thick skull that "hey, I might actually be making things even shittier because not only do I have the ability to essentially wipe her family and her out as I please due to a strong power imbalance between the both of us, but I also have a stupid inferiority complex and mommy issues directed unfairly towards the MC." Honestly, if the MC decided to avoid changing things, we could probably even predict that he would still treat her with the same level of hatred as he did before if not for her attempting to change the wheels of fate. Like cool, maybe he wouldn't have killed or raped her at that point, but that's meeting the BARE MINIMUM of human respect.
When you write trauma, you best expect that you do a good amount of research on it and how victims and survivors cope with it. Clearly, it took a long while for the MC to reopen back up to the ML- yes, they got the scared shitless part down. However, somehow, the trauma is all gone and she's forgiven him as soon as we bring in the fact that he was drugged. Not only that, it becomes so inconsistent at some points that she blushes or becomes visibly flustered at certain actions as if she was back in love? That's not how it works, especially with the level of torment and humiliation she endured; all gone. It's clear that the author only placed those scenes as shock value and simply a way to make the MC look more pitiful before throwing it out the window to try and come up with a pathetic reason to excuse the ML of all wrong-doing. It's such a lazy plot point made to make him to, somehow, look better. If anything, her being terrified for so many chapters just PROVES that she was at a level of trauma that would barely constitute any amount of saintly forgiveness and babying once she learned about the ML's set of issues. It would be more acceptable if she showed a level of understanding towards his situation, but to the point where she'd marry him? No way. At that point, that's just being absolute hogwash.
No matter what, survivors would certainly not find it in their heart or mind to let bygones be bygones and marry off with the instigators; very few may find it in their heart to perhaps forgive, but keep level of distance away from their abusers. It is possible to recover from trauma, but not towards the person who gave you it.
Why did Tia's father allows her to still be with Ruve AFTER Tia told him about what happened in her last life? and HE even knew her claims were true when Jieun came in the 2nd timeline. WHY would he do that???
because i tell you what. the author was brain dead, sleep deprived and low on coffee when they wrote this plot and didnt really think it would make it big.
Sigh. Going through this thread, I expected to see so much hate to the story/Ruve and Tia for choosing him and all cuz of the bias/abuse and all of the first timeline thingy.
But to say that an author did not think about every point cuz you just hate the novel so much and it's not your liking and you just want to criticism as if you were in their mind and/or you write too?
Just because you do not like the novel, it does not mean that the author is stupid or something. As someone who enjoy writing fiction, I find it way too silly to say such things cuz an author would mind every point so that their own work can come as perfect from their perspective. And I know the novel wouldn't be famous/liked ending by readers for no reason.
Even to say what's actually funny, nowadays famous Korean romance novels are about tyrants who did horrible things to their countries/family/relatives but when they met the FL, they did a whole change and so much romance and all the love to the FL cuz she was "different" to them. Why do you expect that trend appeared?
Simply cuz "romance" readers are looking for "true love". And as long as the ML did not hurt the FL, he'll be biased and everyone will defend his Background story since he had a sad/harsh past with his family/friends and he was abused.
I am one of those who enjoy shoujo/isekai/romance as well, but I would not go rant and hate on characters like that cuz all in all, those novels are for the reader's enjoyment. So you should not ruin the expectations of other readers who want to read the novel just cuz you don't like it.
* back to watching mode, do not mind me but seeing so much hate and throwing those assumes on the author just cuz you do not like the plot is disturbing *
You're just a sad person who can't see the bigger picture because you're narrow and shallow minded especially since you're ignoring how this story is romanticizing abusive relationship.
As Dimension Breaker said previously,
Looking at the bigger picture: this means that everything the Idiot Lead went through was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY in order for her to go back and put into effect the chain of events that would "redeem" the asshole.
That's not redemption for the Male Lead; it's just damnation for the work itself.
Also, it’s not just that he didn’t commit anything, it’s Tia's personal values as a woman. Are you really willing to go back to the man that psychologically traumatized you in every way he could possible? SMH
It just doesn’t make sense for her to even consider him as a love interest. Like I adore the art. I just wish it wasn’t wasted on romanticizing such a terrible love story and pushing away psychological trauma like cake. In reality, anyone who went through what she did would literally have their skin crawl going near their abuser, changed or not. The only acceptable answer for their relationship is Stockholm Syndrome (which btw, authors stop making SS be a love story because abuse ≠ love) but I see so many readers defending him like it was completely natural for her to fall for him. Idgaf if he was drugged or whatever nonsense. SHE was going to start her second life away from her abuser and that’s the premise that is promised. Not to excuse his shitty actions and go for the “love conquers all, even all the shit he put you through!!”
Sorry for you but nope, I am not narrow minded nor I would jump and judge you like this and state an opinion just because I am talking to you online rather than face to face.
And I do read a lot of shoujo/isekai and Second chance theme cuz that's what I prefer. and you talking about the syndrome? Go read A double agent and you'd know the real meaning of this.
As for Tia, okay I get you. Out of the whole novel, let's say that the FL was super bad and all and had made a lot of mistakes just because she was spoiled by her parents and went on with her own selfishness then she got a chance to repent and she totally change in her second life. How different this is than making the ML so?
It's not that I am against what you said about Tia but most readers there put themselves in the FL's and the villainess shoes and never think about the other characters, extra/main or secondary.
Ha, do I look like a sad, narrow minded and shallow?
I simply enjoy the genre I read and think about every character's perspective. And if I were really to think like what you said, I'd not ignore so many famous japanese shoujo mangas cuz they were about a bully and a simple FL falling for him tho he does this and that like it's normal. Not because he's not in his mental self.
I get it, just because some readers out there like the novel, it does not make sense that you jump and judge them like that you know?
Because this actually shows how " narrow minded " you are and think "oh they think like that, they must be insane or out of their mind!"
I would not jump into a fight online because of a fictional novel I am reading.
Simply my point up there is, if you do not enjoy the novel, do not just jump and judge Authors like that because they actually study about everything they do, either trends or other details a reader of a certain genre want to see in a specific novel. Want a proof? Look up for the famous Shoujo/Romance novels that are being also translated and their plot, they have the similar main theme but with a different personalities in their MCs. Mostly a fairytale like characters. As well, because there are fans out there for this novel, it doesn't mean they are shallow or something, they enjoyed it and had different thoughts about it than you did. That also itself doesn't mean their thoughts are right, nor yours. At the end we all have different theories even when the plot is so clear.
So kindly, do not jump to a conclusion about people if they like what you do not enjoy just because you are talking to them online.
Aightttt calm down. Let's keep it civil here
Hi. I believe that every writers, painters, artists, musicians, etc put their heart and soul into their crafts. However, does that mean it's free from criticism? No.
Taste is subjective. What one person thinks as perfect can be considered as trash by others.
The author can write whatever the fuck she wants, but at the end of the day if she puts it out into the world, that means she has to be ready for all the praises or criticisms coming her way.
If she gets more criticism than praise, wouldn't it be a great reason for her to improve her writing in the future? Shouldn't it push her to do more in depth research before she writes about anything complex? Particularly regarding a touchy subject such as mental trauma.
Do not mistake constructive criticism for hate.
Need I remind you what thread this is? It's a discussion forum, where people can freely discuss their different opinions and thoughts. The reason why you might think that this thread is "full of hate" and "disturbing" is most likely because it's being dominated by people who disliked this novel, me included.
If I were to say "This story is trash." without providing any logical reason, then of course that'd be wrong. But I didn't. I, and most of the people here, wrote long and detailed analyses explaining why this is not a good story.
Those are called constructive criticisms. Not rants.
If you're the type of person who wouldn't "rant and hate on characters" then that's your personal choice. You do you sis. But please do not expect other people to act the same as you.
This manhwa/novel is for public consumption and we, as the readers, have the right to express our opinions, however good or bad they may be.
Jumping in here, I respect you stating that we shouldn't attack authors but at the same time ... these work are quite toxic and misleading many people to believe that this is how relationship and love works. I mean ... think cinderella, it's just a story but how many girls grow up ingrained with the belief and ideology of it. As such, an author does hold some responsibilities for their work. It is not right to just say that it is fictional and that if you don't like it don't read it.
These work, while not obvious, normalizes a lot of dangerous messages such as (love conquers all. For love someone can hurt you (rape, mental and physical abuse, etc) but in the end. It is an act of love. So don't take it to heart and give them another chance. See through their action of why they did that to you rather than just blindly soak in the pain)
This kind of mentality is what happens to a lot of abuse victim in that they try to be 'kind' and 'justify' their abusers action. "He just doesn't know how to express himself well to me (and that is why I got hit). I should be more open and tell him where I'm going next time so he doesn't feel anxious. It was my fault too. We will change together." (next time) "He just doesn't know how to express himself well to me (and that is why I got hit). I should be more open and tell him where I'm going next time so he doesn't feel anxious. It was my fault too. We will change together for sure this time. etc."
Also in regards to author, like I said that they do hold some accountability. Just because it is fiction, doesn't make it okay. Say someone wants to write a romantic story about children struggling with hardship by getting abuse but eventually falling in true love with their abuser in learning that their abuser was once an abused victim like themselves and that is why they abuse MC and in the end they fall in love together and heal each other and live happily ever after ... Would you say these kinds of works are fine? That if you don't like reading them, then you should just not read them?
I mean, sure, it about children so it's a bit different since child abuse is wrong but isn't rape wrong too? Or is rape at different ages determine if it is okay or not? In the end it is all fiction is it not? (sorry for sarcasm)
But to paint a picture, just because it is fiction, doesn't mean authors shouldn't be held accountable to their work and the contents of their work.
Thank you, I agree with you, author should hold some accountability. Normalize such a abuse and toxic romance/relationship is disgusting. Hope this kind of book is banned. Author should be arrest.
I don't think they should be arrested over this one, that's a really extreme thought I mean yeah they are kind of accountable but not to that extent, just put an age restriction over novels of this kind and put disclaimer this is not meant to be taken seriously.
This whole shit reminds me of the whole "game causes violence" shit back then, or maybe I'm wrong, maybe I took it too lightly.
Yo, I respect other's opinions and this is why I came to the thread to see how people look at it. x3
But the thing is, if someone disagree with you/you didn't like the plot you'd not say things so casually about them just because they saw it differently/their thing is not what you expected or wanted to read.
As for the Authors, again my point is, some authors tend to produce what the readers want and they study it all to make their readers happy about it, it is rare to find those who do have their feelings or what they see in their work. At most those who do it as a hobby think this way. x"3
I agree about that with you, abuse and adding on such things are not something all of us would want to read. But there are some who'd by satisfied with the end as they found the reasoning in the plot enough to move on and be happy with it tho it might go different for others. It is more like watching a fairytale then when you read the original of it, you'd feel it's painful because the whole picture was portrayed differently than what you thought.
But here, you'd not blame the one behind it or say things about them, instead, you'd start viewing it differently and building up a thought/ plot by your own x3
It is not that I am standing for authors just because I enjoy reading and writing too, but I think judging people that way because you didn't like their work is way too wrong.
and trust me, this is why I said up there that they study what a reader want, if not, the trend of the perfect lead esp to the ML and the strong confident FL would not appear now and their novels wouldn't be adopted as manhwas right?
Take for example, Angelic Lady. This one is so good and mostly having that of the same part as Tia. But the FL didn't get over what happened to her nor she ended with the same person she was with tho he was under a portion effect.
I do not actually know why they'd come to that, but maybe (just a thought) they are connecting stuff to reality (I know it is extreme but as for Ruve and Allen here for example, as for Ruve was an abuser first, why? leave all the drug reasoning here, if you think about it in reality mostly those who doesn't get love esp by their parents and always being neglected. about they turn to a different person => bad mostly/bully/envious and all that you can think of because they start believing it is a better way to get their parents attention/their loved ones + And Allen turned to a yandere who even wanted to Kill Tia's father, wanted to capture her and even daydream about strangling her to death, not to forget that he became Jenna's spy for the same reason)
I am not saying that this can be also true, but maybe they think adding that would make it different? since you know, those are mainly for Korean readers (they have this thing fr going) hence, many webtoons/manhwas/novels under "isekai" mention that in the start.
But to a really dark plot with the main character as the one who does abuse the FL because he should not show emotions and he think the the FL is interesting and maybe he fell for her, this is something I myself wonder why someone would write something like that =.=
So this thread, now resorts to arresting and censorship? Who would have known. Back then, it was death threats. Guess that wasn't enough for the so-called critics?
So, If I wrote AE, what's the punishment for me?
Who would arrest me? What ground do you think I am liable to?
Do you agree that what you are proposing is tantamount to censorship not just of me as an author but of others who write what you perceive as 'toxic'?
If I received a death threat because of what I wrote, is that acceptable to you? Are you going to send me one as well?
The fact that you disregarded all other constructive criticism/rant and focused on a single hate message (probably because you can't defend your internalized romantization of abusive relationships) on an author is quite pathetic as well.
Your deflections doesn't make you look any less of a clown.
Who said said I disregarded it?
I never replied to you or the others who made constructive criticism as you like as this was your space.
I am merely commenting on the latest responses and even tagged the guy who piqued my interest. I was never going to respond to you as you made your point clear and I have on the other thread. I am not gonna hash out our previous convo since we will be at impasse one way or another.
The fact you responded to me means you were so affected by my post that you didn't correct the poster, which I am beginning to wonder if you do endorse a similar mindset.
Why cant I assume a role of an author when I do write for a living? And such events such as censorship and death threats are possible to happen to me?
Or I suppose you approve such things, too?
Something the guy I quoted could be the one quoting me and not you, I imagine.
I guess you're back with cat getting your tongue, eh?
"Out of the whole novel, let's say that the FL was super bad and all and had made a lot of mistakes just because she was spoiled by her parents and went on with her own selfishness then she got a chance to repent and she totally change in her second life. How different this is than making the ML so?"
Why is Tia the villainess? All she was in the 1st TL was just ...... neutral. It should have been the trash prince in the 1st TL that is absolutely considered as the 'villainess' not her but why did the victim had the most character development? It should have been Ruve that regressed then so he gets the most development as the 'villainess' of Tia in the 1st TL!!! Pls do some critical thinking. Ruve was not the one who was used, abused, neglected and raped.
"do not just jump and judge Authors like that because they actually study about everything they do"
This actually made me laugh lmao
If they actually studied everything then everything they do would have been perfect. No one would question their development and plot.
Sorry if you got it that way, I didn't mention that Tia is the villainess. I was referring to the Doctor Alice. It is kinda similar but here, the FL was in that role and the prince was emotionless then turned different.
If you read everything I wrote there you'd understand what I mean so I'm not going to repeat the reasoning again x3
As for the perfection, this does not exist, not even in works like this.To us it might be (I refer to other works) maybe you thought some novels were perfectly written and the plot and the end is perfect. Observing what readers want does not mean that every reader would be happy with a certain work or would describe it as perfect. This is only if we all as readers wanted all the themes in the novel/ aside of the characters' personalities to be the same.
Separate names with a comma.