Discussion The Abandoned Empress

Discussion in 'Novel Discussion' started by flamingorangesoof, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    338
    Reading List:
    Link
    Nope, you definitely lack significant arguments to tackle the many constructive criticism/rant users had already put here and you definitely can't cover up plot holes and questionable character development, plus I'm reply to you because of what I said previously.
    And since we're already replying to each other then I suppose we're affected by each other's post? lol

    Bold of you to assume Im siding with the one who's okay to threaten writers. Or are you saying that writing doesn't have a restrictions??
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
    Taruna likes this.
  2. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    338
    Reading List:
    Link
    Okay I agree with your last paragraph. Different people have different perspective of their own perfect book/novel. And also, if you are a true fan of a certain work, you should always acknowledge the flaws of the story. Reviews should have pros and cons so new readers can be critically informed.
     
    Taruna and Aikodesu like this.
  3. ATrueStory

    ATrueStory Villainesses, Historical Shit, Noble Circuses

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Reading List:
    Link
    Believe whatever you you will. I am sure your assumption will help you sleep at night or whatever. I am sure whatever image of me conjured by your judgement and other perceived notions keeps you warm.

    I guess so.

    I am assuming since the post resonates to the critics (due to the author's admirably worst job of developing and constructing characterization). While I don't have a problem with critiquing technique (I am the receiving end of such more than I would like) , I do have a problem with people or people who like to describe themselves as critics that advocate for such thing as harassment, censorship or death threats. I take that stuff seriously since I do know I cannot pander to all types of readers . I have receive a ton of 'hate' from my own readers so I am not immune but the fact that some readers think that is appropriate and even liking the said post is beyond the pale IMO. And only one person contradiction is quite alarming. Looking at the post at face value, the post has more support and it means that the message is approved by a number of people. Since liking posts has no nuance, I am to assume that a like is an endorsement of the whole post rather than an reply. So I guess i can be bold in assuming that most critics will endorse said message. Unless of course, i am proven wrong, which has equal chance of happening.
     
    aShinyVaporeon and Aikodesu like this.
  4. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    338
    Reading List:
    Link
    You sure write a long paragraph whose only point is to chastise those who threaten authors.

    Well, the only point I can agree with him/her is that authors can face legal issues just like how freedom of speech is not absolute.
     
    Taruna likes this.
  5. ATrueStory

    ATrueStory Villainesses, Historical Shit, Noble Circuses

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Reading List:
    Link
    Never said I took up legal writing.

    I am sure I could ask/consult a lawyer about such a thing, then.
     
    Aikodesu likes this.
  6. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    338
    Reading List:
    Link
    Sure, you do you but can you do that to tarnished reputation? Not easily so.
     
    Turbostop likes this.
  7. ATrueStory

    ATrueStory Villainesses, Historical Shit, Noble Circuses

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Reading List:
    Link
    Reputations can be remade, re-establishment, or relaunched. especially easy to do especially when one is using a pseudonym.
    Even without a pseudonym, there are legal courses even for that - defamation, slander, libel, cause of mental distress.... I'll let the guy who earned a law degree pick on the best one if it came to that.
    Sides, that is a publisher's PR dept's problem.
    Death threats, cencosrhip, and harassment is a tad more deeper than tarnishment of said reputation, which seemed always be downplayed.
     
  8. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    338
    Reading List:
    Link
    My point still stands tho, being an author is not without restrictions and even countries like China impose censorship.
    And about reputation? You think its easily remade when in reality it's not especially since your credibility as an author is affected. And just because you can get another pseudonym doesn't mean readers can't recognize the author's writing style.
     
    BUTT likes this.
  9. Aikodesu

    Aikodesu Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2020
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    22
    Reading List:
    Link
    If we talk about restrictions, would you forget all the shounen/most seinen and sometimes other genres work?
     
  10. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    338
    Reading List:
    Link
    Im sorry, I don't get your point??
     
  11. Aikodesu

    Aikodesu Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2020
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    22
    Reading List:
    Link
    You said there should be restrictions, means abuse, violence and all should not be included right?

    They do include that in many novels/mangas/manhwas under those which I mentioned there
    if not for the main characters then the extra and no one pay attention to them. Would this count too? *~*

    Btw, Idk if you read "Recording Hall" but it had a super dark plot in the late vols including abuse and what's beyond that to the FL but then the author edited that whole part because it was extreme after readers review.
     
  12. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    338
    Reading List:
    Link
    I was talking about countries with differing restrictions like China with their restrictions on writing nsfw lgbt+ stories.

    That's what readers should do, they give critical reviews so the author could learn and review his/her own work in another person's perspective, reader's constructive criticism allowed the author to not take things too far.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
    Taruna likes this.
  13. herosaver

    herosaver Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2019
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    92
    Reading List:
    Link
    Can we just be real here for a sec?

    Honestly, if the prince wasn't handsome and instead a very ugly fat old looking dude, would you still defend his action?

    I would think not. Most of the people who defend the prince and his redemption is because well ... he is a handsome prince. If he was an ugly fat old looking dude, you would have no problem agreeing with MC to leave the prince. In the end, looks is all that matters. Beautiful people get free passes whether we know it or not.

    An ugly fat old dude raped, abuses, and killed the MC. Vs a handsome young prince raped, abuses, and killed the MC. In your view of TRUE LOVE, do you really believe and agree with your whole heart that MC SHOULD be with the ugly fat old dude again in second life like she does with the prince?

    Honestly, you would say no. Because he is ugly and old. But if we are to say that MC should forgive the prince since he does truly love and care for her in second life, let's say the ugly fat old dude does truly care and love her in second life too. Would you still truly say in your heart that you honestly ship the MC to be with the ugly fat old dude who raped, abused, and killed her in her first life but is nice to her in her second life?

    Probably not. While I understand that looks matters in loving someone (that is just facts). To say that JUST because you are good looking you are able to be forgiven for the same crimes as someone who is not is JUST WRONG! Ugly fat old dude who rapes, abuse, and kills but then treats MC kindly and loves her DOES NOT dwell well on your mind to ship them together but a handsome young prince who raped, abused, and killed MC but then treat MCs kindy and love her dwell fine in your mind (even if you don't like the prince it is still not as revolting for you to think of them together than with the ugly fat old man).

    So in the end, when I judge the Abandon Princess, I look at their actions. I mean we are getting on the MC's perspective but at the same time, is there really, and I mean honestly, any justification and redemption possible for someone to RAPE you, ABUSE you, CHEAT on you, KILL YOUR FAMILY, kill your unborn child you had with them, and then KILL you?

    Like seriously ... if there is a real justification or redemption possible for someone who does all that, I really want to know cause I feel that perhaps I could forgive someone who raped, someone who killed, and someone who abused, but someone who does all 3 and more horrible things to a single person ... I would find it impossible to forgive and justify their actions.
     
    Taruna, aShinyVaporeon, Reack and 5 others like this.
  14. Aikodesu

    Aikodesu Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2020
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    22
    Reading List:
    Link
    Maybe some people think that way but not all. I would actually want a proper reason to defend a character even if the "looks" are not to be described as "good". I am sure many people, at least not those who'd fall for a character's looks will defend the character unless this character is spoiled and have a super bad personality for no reason or even will go on with what they are doing tho they know they are hurting those who love them plus doing it proudly.
     
    Kezi likes this.
  15. Psosm

    Psosm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2020
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    119
    Reading List:
    Link
    The fact that this novel has 9 pages worth of arguments baffles me, I mean do people have that much free times? Why don't we just agree that it is just a plain wish fulfilment and call it a day.

    This novel is clearly just a full on wish fulfilment (or self-insert) that the author barely put an effort into it, I must admit tho the author is really a genius at making it really appealing to that specific audience, so appealing that they (the fans/the audience the author tries to appeal to, which she clearly succeed) are willing to defend something that is just clearly unlogical/bad writing.

    Now now before you raise your fork against me, while I agree some of your argument about the novel sounds really logical, but that is just your argument, the novel? Nah I don't think the author thinks that far, she clearly just made wish fulfilment with tons of unlogical things happening (clearly made unlogical to appeal to that specific audience) while you the fans do a free unrewarded work (beside getting shat on by other people) for the author, that is making something that is clearly unlogical, logical. I must admit you did a really good job there, im truly impressed that you are able to make a logic out of this.

    Also @herosaver makes a really good point on why this novel is clearly a wish fulfilment, the male lead is handsome and that really appeal to the audiences that is female teenagers, if he isn't I doubt people will defend him.

    I do understand that people have different taste, and I do respect that and I don't have a problem with you either liking or hating it. What I don't respect is people whiteknighting it for free, and also people who waste their time trying to prove that it is bad, I mean it's clearly just wish fulfilment for a specific audience why bother go out on your way trying to prove that this is bad? If you don't like that it just mean that you aren't the audience that the author tries to appeal to.

    I have a tip for you, if you hate this novel just go make a review as to how bad this novel is (according to you) on the novelupdates site or on webnovel and stop wasting your time arguing to other people as to how bad it is, you arguing it won't change their view or anything at all.
     
    Reack, CottonKey, shelldon and 2 others like this.
  16. Alina AquaRegilia

    Alina AquaRegilia Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    59
    Reading List:
    Link
    I think where the readers had a main problem with Tia(though most of this is my own perspective and what I think) is that Tia was set up as an tragic character from the begging who has been wronged by life itself and to be fair she was.I mean she followed every rule,did every duty of hers correctly with grace and poise and it is clearly mentioned that all of the governing she did and all of the acts towards her people she did she wished for their well-being and had their best intentions at heart.She did nothing wrong and yet she was scorned by the people,hated by the one (Ruvve ) who was supposed to love and support and she found out that the only person who truly loved her was her father at the last moment days before her death and when she was executed she didn't fight she...accepted it...was she filled with resentment?Yes...But at the same time it was depicted in a way that made her look as if she had lost all hope which she did...and ruvve was written to be the main villain,the reason this happened.Hell even ji-eun your pampered princess was more likable at that time...and for ruvve to be forgiven and accepted..why because of sad story is just pathetic and what is worst is that his story was not all that moving at all.Compare him to his introduction as a tyrant in Tia's story and compare his past sob story which had a more impact.
    The other thing which made me hate the story more was(my opinion solely) was that I fully went into this story thinking that it was about Tia..
    Isn't it about Tia...Tia who will get her happy ending
    who will learn that she is a human that deserves respect and whom everyone will love and love everyone...
    Should n't we gt scenes where we see Tia and her father bonding...Not about whining non sense from the guy who ruined their beautiful relationship(I don't care if he was from another dimension if he pulled that shit with me....I mean execute my father who willing served your goddamn family for years...you bet your golden crown that I am gonna whoop your royal ass)
    Shouldn't we have Tia getting Female friends and I mean FRIENDS not allies that help her in business so she can strengthen her family name which will indirectly make her a more suitable empress candidate
    Shouldn't she have life where she can be free ...free of duties and abusive assholes
    And yes my girl...Ruvve is abusive and toxic even in the second timeline
    Sure he did not rape her but hey,that's a fucking bare minimum(the more you know).He still forces her to be tied to him cause he doesn't want her to go...like that time he gave her a tiara that was supposed to be given to the future empress during that time when they were...Y'Know selecting his future wife...like my man Tia asked you to leave her the hell alone and instead of selecting a suitable candidate you continue to cling onto her under the excuse of finding someone as good as Tia so the country would be prosperous...classic guilt tripping by the way.And I know it is to find a suitable empress CONSORT but is there know way he could have chosen an empress empress consort and broke off with Tia and promote the consort to the actual empress?... wait he could do that before..he could have broken off the moment she asked him...Gosh why didn't I think of that(no seriously he could have, even the emperor agreed at some point).
    Ohhh and those time he bought her expensive gifts...I am thinking shoes ...Sweet gesture,for sure...if she liked you which she doesn't. You keep giving her expensive gifts like how she supposed to feel.
    The most telling is when he started to pay attention to her as a potential love interest rather than a praise worthy future empress whom he was dangerously jealous of was when he saw that Tia and Allen maybe might have a thing going on and don't give me that"You know the value of the things when you lose them"Bullshit. Tia is not a thing,she is a person.and you either respect a person or you don't
    Tia deserved better.That is why most of the people hate the end game.Yeah being a past rapist and abuser in a different dimension does make everyone hate you but common Tia could join a circus and marry a baker and she would be doing better...side note if and IF you are trapped in an medieval European setting best marry a baker... bread is amazing.
    People and by people I mean me hate the fact that she had to change herself for ruvve .She had to "redeem"herself for her happy ending like what qualities of her did she had to redeem about herself...committing mass genocide?Wait that was Hitler...maybe she conducted a survival ritual where citizens were pitted against each other so that the monarchy would go unquestioned?Damnnit hunger games...ohhh I know she killed women and bathed in their blood to have eternal youth?Nope that was some queen ...then she was angry at the girl that appeared out of thin air for stealing her rightful position as the empress for which she sacrificed so much....crimes include having a resting bitch face,working too hard,being too talented and having standards and self-respect
    But she gets the guy by redeeming herself AKA reducing herself and such and if you think about it seems miserable.
    So that's the reason people don't like it because it is about a girl who wishes to escape her cursed fate and start a new life only to be back in that same vicious life full of backstabbing people and political adversaries(I mean she had to go through it once, why again?) stuck in a relation with a guy who is and I cannot stress this enough a walking trigger,a man petty enough to hate her for being good at something than him(cue fragile ego)like yeah sure he changed he is a different person but is he really.?..He is jealous and possessive which is not cute nor healthy.
    Media tries to pass controlling relationships as goals and shit but apart from being a fantasy they are not really good for anyone or anything and where the problem arises is that in eastern countries like Korea and Japan is that abuse is always brushed under the rug and for something so popular in Korea treating the victims as though they were at fault is really damaging.Abandoned Empress starts of with a powerful female lead but winds up being a classic blame the victim tropes and ends up horribly wrong.For this reason alone the work is bad to say the least and disturbing and I'm sorry, disgusting to say the most.
     
    Taruna, Reack, Turbostop and 2 others like this.
  17. Alina AquaRegilia

    Alina AquaRegilia Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2020
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    59
    Reading List:
    Link
    I don't know man,Claude from WMMAP is pretty much up there
     
    Turbostop likes this.
  18. Psosm

    Psosm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2020
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    119
    Reading List:
    Link
    That's why like I said stop wasting your time shouting that this novel is bad, it's better to use your time to make a review as to how bad this novel is at novelupdates or webnovel site, I mean I don't think people will go out of their way to the novel discussion to judge if the novel is good/bad or if it's worth reading or not, they will just check the reviews, so go make a review there to prevent other from being mislead (like what you experienced there), I know there's already tons of 1-2 star reviews but that seems to be not enough :hmm: since based on your experience of being mislead.

    I fully understand your feelings I mean i have that experience too with cough.. Cthulhu Gonfalon cough and I totally hate it, the only difference between me and you is that I don't waste my time arguing with people online as to how bad and how disappointed I am at this novel, I just used that time to make a review to prevent others from experiencing the same disappoinment as mine :D.

    I totally agree with your view tho (y).
     
  19. Dimension Breaker

    Dimension Breaker Director of the False Last Act

    Joined:
    May 23, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    338
    Reading List:
    Link
    Sorry that you had to see our unsightly rant here, I'm not really gonna say that ranting how bad this story is had wasted my time since ranting is also another form of stress reliever for me.

    All in all, it was just disturbing how the 'villainess' of the MC's life got whitewashed and the victim had the most development when in villainess stories it should have been the villainess which in this story, Ruve, who should have been sent to another timeline to redeem himself.
     
    Taruna likes this.
  20. FIEND

    FIEND Cult Leader

    Joined:
    May 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,947
    Likes Received:
    3,207
    Reading List:
    Link

    what was the disturbing ending? i quit around when i heard she ends up with this scum
     
    Taruna likes this.