Spoiler The Flower Dance and The Wild Song/꽃은 춤추고 바람은 노래한다

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by suzzy77, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. Crystal_knight

    Crystal_knight Well-Known Member

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    İ actually really like Harsen, He is the one who let Arcella meet her sister when she become princess (manhwa chp 17) so with this i can tell how much he love her even before their marriage. I think they both were at fault in first timeline in terms of their relationship, even though they both love each other, cause it's seems like Arcella liked him but at some point becomes scared of him that's why she usually describe him as a scary person and give too much attention to her parents side family to the point she neglected her husband and child while Harsen don't know how to express his love and may be because of Arcella attachment towards her family becomes somewhat jealous ??

    But still it's too complicated that harsen also take part in rebel (didn't expect that coming from ml) my heart crush reading about this spoiler !!! Have to find a good reason for him to rebel otherwise it's seems pretty stupid decision which can only lead him to his death!!!
     
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  2. LePetiteReader

    LePetiteReader Well-Known Member

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    In the case of why ML cho
    Haha, in stories nowadays, the MC and ML or FL are more well-written than the old stories where the leads are supposed to be super good people that sets readers standards high. I would say, if there's a solid reason like MC's life and their son's being on the line, forcing ML to join the rebellion, it would makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
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  3. LePetiteReader

    LePetiteReader Well-Known Member

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    Arcella's post pregnancy depression might have turned into a long-term depression where she takes out on her son because she couldn't take out on anyone else. Though, she never physically or (might) verbally harm Vincent, she gave him the silent treatment and was an invisible mother to him until she died. Her husband should've stepped in to help but maybe he wasn't able to in the 1st timeline since she got pregnant when he was just appointed a duke, then sent to war, then the rebellion happended and before he knew it, his wife died.
     
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  4. Rakshanu

    Rakshanu Immortal Ero

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    But how can be a duke forced to rebel tho? There was no threat to his family persay and dukedom had more chances of being destroyed in rebellion than otherwise.

    FL was a divorced Woman and yet managed to pull enough strings to destroy rebellion from the core and then having the duke escape capital punishment. FL even before rebellion secured Vincent in a place where he could not be harmed, so sons life threat is not even in equation, If FL alone could do all of that, why couldn't her+duke combined could do it?

    If this was a normal story where characters other than ML were helpless, forced rebellion could be a thing, but here FL wields authority on par if not greater than dukedom itself, her immediate family is on the crown of BOTH nations, maternal family ruling one, her nephew ruling this one and to top it off, they both have deep and loving relationship with the FL.

    Duke could literally assist FL and make stuff easier for her to do what she did alone anyway, and if he was so scared to rebel from rebellion, he could have self sabotaged them, but considering FL had to beg to him to be just exiled, clearly he did not even do that.

    So for FL PoV and thus our readers, Duke is a dick who almost forced FL to choose between her Married Family or Maternal Family existence to be wiped out.
     
  5. Rakshanu

    Rakshanu Immortal Ero

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    Harsen loved the FL prior to marriage, but FL accepted the marriage for benefit of family only so her sister could have breathing room in royal politics and have a chance at royal heir.
    Post marriage, where the FL should have developed love, she got a heavy PTSD instead due to duke.

    She was made pregnant at age of 16 when she wanted nothing more than make friends and venture in society (Mind you, woman is not mentally or emotionally stable to give birth at that young age), then to make things worse she during the time she needed ML the most, is left alone with scare of her becoming a widow at any time looming over her, everyone in estate starts treating her differently as to not be selfish as she is no longer her own life, but bearing life of their new heir. To her this added more stress in the form of her individual worth is gone and now only her worth as heir mother is left.
    There is also incident of Duke murdering his own family members in front of her (dunno during pregnancy or later) which sets fear in her mind of his image, that if he could kill his own blood, what about hers?
    If it ended there, it could have might been salvaged but nope, she loses her parents, parents in laws which pushes her further into a hole, duke despite returning is not able to give her attention she needed because of inheritance.
    And then in few years , when she finally tried to recover and leave it all behind and re-do her societal debut, she is again berated as "bad mother", thus enforcing her mind that her value as "woman" and "wife" is gone now and she is only a "mother" now, so only thing that matters is not her well being , but the well being of the offspring.

    And all this happens, without communication effort from duke, he could not see her wife's suffering at all.

    For FL pov, her pregnancy/marriage started her worst nightmare.

    That is why we see, when she finally leaves the dukedom and lives alone, she recovers and is finally happy, the fact that her maternal family/sister is extremely nice to her is the last mental support straw she has so she is ofc inclined to spend more time with them and be happy along them.

    Years of living alone, finally healed her broken mind and heart finally to consider/realize that she did some neglect of her child, which does turn to her regret on deathbed.

    See, now this shows realistic side of society and life of someone who goes through traumatic experiences, compared to other stories where children are meant to be neglected, society is accepting of Nanny raising children etc.
    This shows a much more realistic side and thats why it hits much harder.
     
  6. LePetiteReader

    LePetiteReader Well-Known Member

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    Best explaination hands down ❤
     
  7. LePetiteReader

    LePetiteReader Well-Known Member

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    I haven't read the story until the end yet since I don't know Korean and so do you, so for now, let's not be mad at him until it's revealed, yeah?
    If it turns out that it's a petty reason, let's throw hands at him but if it turns out that he was indeed forced into the rebellion, the story will turn into a sad story of the husband married his love at first sight but it seemed that his luck was used up when he married her, the wife was hurried into marriage at 16 to her 'best choice' to support her family and because her father is dying, and the innocent son who was neglected because of all the passive chaos.

    Also, ranks do not matter when it comes to things like being forced into rebellioms or joining forces, it depends on many matters. If rankings do have that much influence, the royal family would never ever be threaten to any authority challenges ever or forced to submit to noble families. I hope the ML was blackmailed or sth, maybe relating to him killing his family.
     
  8. Rakshanu

    Rakshanu Immortal Ero

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    The only reason they are doing rebellion, is because the heir is too young no? Unless I missed something, along with fact that empress is already deceased, thus from rebels PoV, the royal family lacks influence on maternal side as of that moment, and the only reason they were thinking of it to be successful is because they made a deal with enemy country to attack the kingdom while they rebelled from inside ( which fl stopped and they lost)
    Otherwise the ranks does matter a lot,
    Duke getting blackmailed just doesn't match up with facts knows so far ,
    His direct family is dead
    He killed his cousins himself so doubt their families can be of much use
    FL is divorced and son disowned , also fl and son is both protected by FL Royal family.
    Threatening fl fam is pointless, because they are also royalty and the other half they are rebelling against.
    He doens't eem o care about to care about dukedom since he willing to throw it in flames of rebellion and even losing it altogether.

    So it's just simply lack of motive, unless it's gonna be bs like fl life threat.. ( the same fl who shit stomped rebellion,making it ??) And makes Duke even worse , since he complied with people who threatened her wife till last moment.

    Ofc e don't have full novel story yet, but the first impressions of this char is hard to swallow.

    Instead of liking him o hate later, it will be more of hate now to like later or continue hating.
    My 2 cents really
     
  9. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    I can not believe you compared a Korean harlequin ML to Eren Yaegar. One of the most complex and developed shounen Portags ever made. And I don't even like eren
     
  10. Skite

    Skite Well-Known Member

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    I feel so bad for our MC. The entire thing is like an experiment on what happens when you take an Extreme Social Butterfly Extrovert, and then force her to live the life of an introverted hermit for years. And the results are not pretty.

    It's like she just shrivels up and dies from lack of social interaction.

    And I've got to say, Ercella's parents are total dicks so far. She's kind of the black sheep oddball for being social in a family of scholars, and she was definitely a touch neglected in favor of the siblings, which is probably where she got her crippling need for attention and fear everyone will leave her if she doesn't prove her worth. I get that her dad was dying, but that doesn't mean "sell off my teenage daughter the day she debuts to the highest bidder". She still had a mom and very powerful older siblings--you really couldn't have waited? And when she first married and got pregnant, she wrote to her mom, desperate for a visit, and her mom didn't show until halfway through the pregnancy. They live close enough her mom could come over every day, and mom doesn't stop in even once in 6+ months?

    I do think Harsen and Ercella speak completely different "love languages" and that that is a major source of their miscommunication.

    Harsen (and Vicente) seem to express their love through acts of service and giving presents. They'll go to great lengths of effort to arrange something, like a visit from Ercella's sister, or give her gifts in order to show their affection, trying to ensure Ercella has everything comfortably arranged while they're not there.

    But, Ercella seems to express love in quality time and affectionate words. She completely lights up when they go with her on outings, or dance with her, or just spend time in her presence. Unfortunately, Harsen is an asocial hermit workaholic. He was raised alone, with private tutors, not attending school or functions, and he so rarely goes out, few know what he looks like. He also doesn't seem to understand the point of socializing, let alone the benefits, so he views his wife's desire to attend events as frivolous, and he is a very quiet, reserved person who is bad at expressing his feelings. So, while she acknowledges Harsen is considerate of her, Ercella doesn't feel loved, because he never says so, nor does he spend time with her. She doesn't feel needed or useful, because she's kept in a padded box, and not literally not allowed to help or use her talents as everything is arranged for her. And she doesn't feel very respected, because he doesn't realize the benefits he gets from her networking and building relationships with other important people in society, thinking she's a bit silly, and because he takes on all of the work so she isn't burdened with it.

    Harsen seems aware enough to realize he has no idea what Ercella needs, or how to give her what she needs, only that his failure is hurting her, and as a result of that guilt, the man who is such an unbending perfectionist towards his son allows Ercella to do absolutely anything, including neglecting their child, falling into alcoholism, becoming depressed, etc. He just stands back, and continues to arrange things for her from a distance so her consequences are never too bad, strewing flower petals on her garden path of life. Not understanding that this is the exact opposite of what she needs. She needs him to come closer, give her direct, affectionate attention, and allow her to have a purpose just for herself (not as a mother).

    Both Harden and Vicente also fall into the trap of thinking Ercella is this sparkly, innocent, tweety bird they must shield and protect, which leads to them hiding things from her "for her own good"--which never turns out well. It usually leads to her thinking they don't care, are being mean, and that they think she's stupid. She's actually very intelligent and resilient, but they can't see it through the sparkle. You can tell she wants to smack them sometimes and say "being bubbly doesn't mean I'm a moron" They'll also go through great lengths to sacrifice for her sake in the shadows and wonder why she doesn't appreciate it, when she would have preferred they tell her and include her as they worked through it together.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021
  11. DAngel7

    DAngel7 Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone spoil on:
    - how did Vicente got out of the marriage with that horrible girl? Was it his mother Ercella that managed to convince Harsen?
    - what happened in the first timeline after she died??
    - also why did Harsen stopped visiting Ercella after coming back from visiting the fief (around chapter 22 in the flashback)?
     
  12. LePetiteReader

    LePetiteReader Well-Known Member

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    Vincent did got out of the engagement but it took a while to convice both Vincent and Harsen.

    He was just named duke and he had a lot to do, like getting rid of his relatives who wanted the duke position (like the uncle and cousin who approached Ercella when she was pregnant) and also dealing with a lot of overdue work since the head position was left unattended for a while and Ercella wasn't allowed to act as a head because she's a woman (I felt so angry reading this, she has a lot of potential but because of her gender, society only sees her as a baby making machine and a trophy wife)
     
  13. WulanL

    WulanL Active Member

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    Could anyone tell me where can ready the novel?
    Thank you...
     
  14. roseO

    roseO Well-Known Member

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    I needed to read an analysis like this! I still can't wrap my head around the fact that Harsen was supposedly madly in love with Ercella all along but at the same time he was so detached, ice cold and basically a bystander when she was at her worst (like, so profoundly in love and yet so emotionally stunted?? @-@). It's no wonder she felt completely deprived of support, affection and trapped. It's so sad that she made their son feel exactly the same way though. I wonder if by the end of the story Harsen and Vicente understood Ercella, because it would be such a waste if they never did. Just to clarify, I'm not trying to use mental health as an excuse to exempt her from responsibility. She neglected her duties and there's no fixing her son's loveless childhood. And yet, I don't even know if she was capable of carrying out those duties at the time. I might be stepping on a landmine here, but I think staying away from Vicente might have been for the best. I don't know how she would have treated him if she had been forced to take care of a child she hated and apparently didn't think of as her own (in her own words). This be really complex, man. I honestly dont know what would be a fair way to judge (for lack of a better word) her situation.
     
  15. Rakshanu

    Rakshanu Immortal Ero

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    No landmine stepped, She needed to get away from that toxic and oppressive place and once she finally does in first life, she is able to heal herself after 3-4 years. Thats how bad her mental health had gotten while living at dukedom. So her actions are justified.

    One can't love someone else when they can't even love themselves, which is what happened to FMC. The society and the dukedom eliminated her self love as a woman and only put a stamp of mother on her, which she hated because she still wanted to be a woman.
     
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  16. roseO

    roseO Well-Known Member

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    I understand your point of view, but there's no nuance in it and you stated it very categorically, which is your right, but not helpful.

    I do believe that Ercella was in a toxic and oppressive environment and that she needed to heal. I also believe that the people around her made her feel like a political puppet with no value as a person, I don't think anyone can argue against that. However, the reason I think it's very difficult to judge her situation is because of her severe mental health problems that clouded her judgement and sense of reality (PPD, apparently, and we don't know how long it lasted). I think it would be a mistake to mix that up with self-centered desires (wanting to enjoy her youth, being single with no responsibilities, etc) because I don't think that that's what drove her actions. PPD aside, Ercella was in love with her husband and I think she would have made better choices if she had felt loved and supported. I think she went to parties and drank to escape the toxicity of the dukedom, but deep inside she hoped that Harsen would stop her to show that he cared about her. But he never did, and that might have made her want to escape and rebel. She was caught up in a vicious cycle until her death in the first life.
     
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  17. CoweyBell

    CoweyBell Well-Known Member

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    I thought Mc only said ml was her best choice because she desperately needed a legit reason to marry him. She loved him, but found out he only married her because he didn't want ties with the Royal family. "Since he's using me, I'll use him too."
    Because she loved him and refused to admit it, she needed other reasons to marry him. Marrying him provided a lot of pros, which in turn was the "best" option, and will be here excuse of marrying him.
     
  18. bluesea23

    bluesea23 Active Member

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    Was Ercella competely cured of her disease? Did vincent find the cure?
    What was her disease even?
     
  19. mia-chan

    mia-chan Well-Known Member

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    I think Ercella get baby blues or Postpartum depression? But.. Nah, if i think again she get Postpartum depression not baby blues.. Even tho How her neglect her son still piss me off, but i think i can understand after know what she going through- like with her Postpartum depression after getting birth, his Father pass away and any other problem, i can understand why.. i mean if u in unstable mental state and all problem coming.. you cant really make good decision, but yeah still poor Vicente... but idk about harsen its still confused me.. and tbh to me i kinda confused why both of them have another child?? like 'i will pay all Motherhood loves that Vicente can't get through this child.. i will sure raise him with love unlike what i did to Vincente' Really?? lol if it was me i will be bitter like 'You not even raise me with love and now you gave him everything that i don't get when i was kid??' lololol i cant imagine- but yeah maybe with Vincente Personality he will accept it with big heart also be happy as family and as big brother
     
  20. magical_al00

    magical_al00 ✧・゚:*( ͡ꈍ ͜ʖ̫ ͡ꈍ )*:・゚✧

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    I really don’t like the end she can’t forgive him but still love him after all the suffer she has and the cold looks he gave to her .. I will be insane if I get back to someone like him :blobneutral: