The Launch of Scribble Hub!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Tony, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. GDLiZy

    GDLiZy Wise Deepsea Mermaid

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    To be fair, most genres are not needed either. Josei, Isekai, Seinen for example. I would argue that most of the genres except the main ones are unneeded, for the tags can fill that information in. GL and BL can be tagged with the romance genre, for example.

    And till this day, I still don't even know what's the actual difference between Adult and Smut.

    Still, I want Xianxia because it's like a unique genre like LitRpg at this point.

    Don't pretend that isekai and other trashes are not trash. We can look at any genre and pick the trashes to distort the actual view with the genre itself.

    Isekai also followed the same pattern. Even more fetish-y Gend-bend Girl-Love. 'Reincarnate as' story is also one of the tropes. They are not good or worse than Xianxia— it's just your bias.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2020
  2. Ultrabenosaurus

    Ultrabenosaurus Well-Known Member

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    Josei and Seinen are, when attributed correctly, vastly different overarching descriptions of the tone and audience of the novel as a whole. That's why they're distinct genres and not tags. Isekai I don't think should be a genre, it should be a tag as it describes the position of the main character(s) and isn't really to do with the tone or the setting of the story - isekai is literally just being sent to another world, it could be reincarnation or portals or anything and isn't really limited to magical worlds, it's just commonly used in conjunction with reincarnation and the Fantasy genre. Similarly, GL and BL are not genres, I agree; I'd say they're sub-genres to Romance and should be specified as tags.

    Realistically speaking Adult should be anything not suitable for minors, including some sexual content but also things like excessive violence or maliciousness which you wouldn't want children to get immersed in. Smut, on the other hand, is specifically for excessive sexual content which is a fundamental and explicitly detailed aspect of the novel. Again, that's what they're supposed to be, not necessarily how they're actually used.

    As for xianxian as a "unique genre", I disagree. It is a mix of martial arts and fantasy, just with a specific magic system in place. It isn't a genre in its own right as much as we agree that GL and BL aren't genres in their own right.

    One thing uniquely xianxian is how most characters above background peasants are unrealistically arrogant in front of anyone they perceive as below them or weaker than them, then grovel in front of anyone they perceive as above them or stronger than them while simultaneously scheming against those "betters". Sure, it appears outside of cultivation novels occasionally, but it's a core part of the vast majority of cultivation / xianxian novels.

    No other genre I have come across is so blatant about the tacky repeated plot cycles, either. They at least try and spruce things up to look different, beyond just changing the opposing characters and adding a few new attack names.

    And, yes, any genre can have trash stories. Also, yes, it is down to personal opinion and preferences. That still doesn't change how far more xianxian novels are overwhelmingly similar to each other compared to fantasy novels or sci-fi novels.
     
  3. GDLiZy

    GDLiZy Wise Deepsea Mermaid

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    Josei and Seinen are age demographics for the intended audience. I don't think it qualifies as a main genre. Slice of Life, romance, drama and the like are sufficed to describe the narrative of the story.

    I called it unique genre 'like LitRpg' because it's just like that. A big enough background mythological setting that got used widely. It should be sub-genre to fantasy, if anything.

    To your Adult and Smut response, there is also another genre that I didn't mention, which is Mature. How would you define the three genres?
    We can simplify all the bad things and make any genre look bad, really.

    Let's see:
    Isekai, dense-as-black-hole MC, always-wants-MC's-dick FLs, female=forgiveness villains, no plot whatsoever, and if edgy then will change the premise from revenge into harem-making in 10 chapters, useless food-making fillers, katana-the-best, rice-the-best.

    Dungeon-diving(KR): money-grabbing MC, NTR at every corner, Money=ladies, Japanese=enemies, USA=big bad

    See? The point is not that the genre has trash, because every genre has trash; statistically, at least half of all books are trash.
     
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  4. Ultrabenosaurus

    Ultrabenosaurus Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, they're named after demographics and are still used for that purpose, but they're also clearly genres. The similar tone and style of story that they represent, while still having a broad variation in topic, is far more than can be said for xianxian. Then they get narrowed down by other genres and supporting tags so people can pick between them.

    In most cases, Mature is just a synonym for Adult in regards to genres. It's about identifying content that is not suitable for children and minors. On the other hand, Smut is for stories that focus on significant amounts of explicit sexual content but aren't at the level of full-blown pornography.

    Sure, you can pick holes in anything, I'm not disputing that.

    But you also didn't actually try to counter anything "bad" I said about xianxian. You didn't try to explain why I was wrong about the vast majority of xianxians using exactly the same plot cycles, or terrible 1D characters with no qualities besides arrogance and hypocrisy. You didn't try to explain how xianxians are more than just martial arts + fantasy with a common magic system. You're just trying to change the topic and focus on cherry-picked bad tropes from other types of novel. And you're still not giving any real reasons for xianxian to be a standalone genre.

    Well, you did say something about a big "background mythological setting" but the same could be said about various religious pantheons being used in western and Japanese fantasy novels. That's still just a tag, at best, not a genre. Are you saying that novels set during the Middle Ages should use "Christianity" as a genre and novels about Vikings should use "Norse" as a genre, if big mythological settings are enough to qualify?
     
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  5. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Ophi-kun's Survival Teacher』

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    Mmmmmmmm, Josei and Seinen are kinda unneeded indeed, Mature would often do their job well enough.
    Isekai OTOH should totally be a tag IMO, but Tony-chan got enough requests for making Isekai a genre in NU that she just did it.
    As for GL and BL, I disagree on this one actually. While both of those are just different facets of Shoujo, the readerbase is very distinct (even if there is some overlap), and some people really seek GL/BL exclusively or want to shy away from all kinds of homosexual romance, so... Having those genres is very important IMO~

    As for Adult/Smut... There is no real difference, honestly, Adult should be removed IMHO.

    As for Xianxia... Well, I'd argue LitRPG isn't worth a genre spot either tbh, I think tags suffice for both of those.
    That's the definition of Mature. As for as NU and Scribbly care, Adult = Porn.
     
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  6. GDLiZy

    GDLiZy Wise Deepsea Mermaid

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    Never try to dispute that it is bad in the first place. I'm saying that even though most of them are bad, they can still be a genre(or in this case, a sub-genre under fantasy genre)

    In the end, it's all about ease regarding the access to certain types of fictions for the audience. Most audience here did not read about Norse or Japenese Pantheon that much, at least not to the extend of Xianxia. See all the sub-genres of sci-fi, punks, fantasy, etc.

    Strangely enough, there is Myth genre when I searched for it.
     
  7. runsing

    runsing status : bleeding, health -10/s Novel Updates Staff

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    to me,
    • Shounen/Seinen
    • Shoujo/Josei
    • BL
    • GL
    (naming aside) those 4 demographic/genre (whatever you want to call it) are often distinctive enough in the way it was written, that before i chose other genres/tags to filter in or out, i want to get them out the way first. there are shounens with female protag, and there are also shoujos with male protag. but the way the story is narrated, structured and filled are usually different.

    once i make a decision which of those 4 i want to read, only then i started narrow down my choice. and this is where isekai, litrpg, xianxia, sol, adult etc gets further filtered.

    i do Agree on Adult being removed simply because it is not intuitive enough for most people to differentiate between porn 'Adult' vs non. what happened on NU is a clear example.
    However, keep in mind, that Adult, just like BL/GL, is needed exactly because it is a 'divider', especially when it comes to Ads (which SH will have in the future)

    if anything, i would say Mature is what's not really needed, not when Josei and Seinen are already there. if any, i'd prefer Teen in its place instead.
     
  8. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Ophi-kun's Survival Teacher』

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    Can't Smut do that though? Like... If all Adult novels got the Smut tag, it would still work fine, wouldn't it?
    That's a good point too~
     
  9. runsing

    runsing status : bleeding, health -10/s Novel Updates Staff

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    personally, i would say, smut works, but it is not enough.

    if you would allow me to use manga for example;
    i've read a lot of smut-tagged shoujo/josei mangas for over a decade, but i don't remember any of them that were on the level of H-mangas at all, so i don't know how 'smut' is perceived from western readers perspective, but to me, smut is just..'not there'.. compared to Adult tag.
     
  10. GDLiZy

    GDLiZy Wise Deepsea Mermaid

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    This is interesting. I, from the perspective of someone who generally avoided reading Smut and Adult, thought that Smut is one-up from Adult.

    Adult might be sex and plot, but Smut is like sex then plot.
     
  11. AliceShiki

    AliceShiki 『Ms. Tree』『Ophi-kun's Survival Teacher』

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    Tbh, I only read one smut manga and it didn't even have sex in it, it just showed nudity or partial nudity at one point or another... And even then, it wasn't much.

    Yet when I heard people talk about smut, they always say it's something about how everything in the story leads to sex, so I just assumed the manga I read was misstagged.

    So... From a personal experience point of view, I agree that it's not enough... But from how other people defined smut, it feels like it's more than enough... So... It's confusing! >.<

    Either way I agree that it would be good to get rid of either Mature or Adult...