This Friend’s Problem

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by cap.toon, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. cap.toon

    cap.toon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    261
    Reading List:
    Link
    Okay, help me think this problem over.

    If u have been keeping an eye on posts I made ( yea like a stalker), I’m bringing up an old problem or so. If not, this is going to be new.

    In an older post, I mention a friend (this friend) who was debating whether this friend should take on a seasonal temporary job. This friend decided to the temporary job and stayed long enough to transfer to another department for a permanent position. It is a position this friend, never in the wildest imagination, would imagine this friend would even be offered. In fact, this friend interviews for another position but instead was offered this position—a higher wage position.

    Exciting right? Although this friend is anxious and worry about this friend’s ability to fulfill the role as this friend didn’t go to college for this “career” path, if it can be called that. This friend other fear concern the ability to correctly sound out and pronounce last name and some first name. It’s a tedious fear, but once those “mc” “gh” and weird letters pairing shows up—well u get the idea of paging the wrong name pronunciation throughout an entire facility.

    Just imagine, the big mic announcement: “Goldon come to the front desk, Goldon come to the front desk.”

    “Who is Goldon,” your coworker asked.

    “Idk,” you said.

    30 minutes later, your lead supervisor looked up from the computer screen after checking the lead’s email, “Gordon they’re looking for you at the front desk.”

    However, that’s not the problem this friend came to me for. This friend mentions that the county position this friend has been longing for has opened up. This friend had just accepted the friend’s current position a month prior. Professionally, it is not a wise choice to change job in such a manner and could burn bridges. This friend wonder what to do, since there are many pro and con.

    The friend has fear completing some of the task for the current position, but the position is a small department of just four staff. The supervisor and mentors are kind, easy going, and over all very positive. It would be a very good environment to grow in; plus the supervisor is flexible with staff’s work schedule. Meaning, asking for day off because of personal events would be easier. A lot of the time, it would be computer related work: data entry, updating databases, calling and tracking down employees regarding paperwork, scheduling and staging events, and other miscellaneous duties. This friend likes small group and find the workload for the current job to be light and manageable; aside from the constant torture of trying to pronounce names and such.

    While the desired job with the county pays 1.75 dollar more; it would be working on cases—at time even working on more cases than dean okay per an employee. It would be a bigger department, put in unit, and deals a lot with checking and interviewing recipients for eligibility. This job is part of the friend’s job plan, but this friend has many doubt; as this friend have other personal and family problems and would need to at least to request about two days off every month. Also, this friend isn’t sure if there is a probation period; as this friend worry that requesting off within a 3 month period is not professional and could jeopardize being passed for permanent employee.

    What’s your thought? Should this friend stay or leave if an offer is made?
     
  2. Meloman

    Meloman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    473
    Reading List:
    Link
    Is that “new” job his/her “dream job”?
    Or is it just a “stop-over” job on the way to “big boss” position?
    Have there been examples of people in his/her “current” job becoming “big boss position “ even without working at the “new stop over” place?
     
  3. Katsono

    Katsono Roaming xiu!

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    9,538
    Reading List:
    Link
    1.75 dollars more is a big deal in America?
     
    SialJoans likes this.
  4. WinByDying

    WinByDying I can count to four

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    459
    Reading List:
    Link
    Pronouncing names is something your friend might be able to learn, exercise?

    The current job sounds nice. A good environment is something to be cherished. Working for years in a shitty environment can suck the life out of you. It may pay less, but the environment and the practical advantages and flexibility are a big, big plus.

    Your friend could try and apply anyway, if his current company wouldn't find out. If he has the time for it, he won't have anything to lose. Even if he gets the offer, he doesn't have to take it.

    Your friend should try to get to know if there's a probation period. If so, it isn't very smart to jump jobs that fast. If he isn't hired permanently, he will have two jobs on his resume, both for very short periods and that does not look very good. Interviewers might ask questions about it in the future. Might. Not sure.

    As for burning bridges: is your friend on good terms with his boss? Does the boss seem like a reasonable person? Are they very invested in you? If you leave on short notice, will they be screwed? Consider these things. Usually, if you bring it up tactfully then they'll understand.

    If the company would find out that your friend is applying for the job, then he has to consider talking about it with the boss in advance. Problem is that this could lower your credibility.

    There's no ideal solution, but your friend can probably apply and get interviewed, and then see later on if he gets the offer or not. Your friend should be more proactive, try to find out if it's a permanent offer or not (if your friend doesn't know yet by the time of the interview, then he should ask it there). Your friend should try to find out what sort of an environment it is, does he know someone that works there? A friend of a friend? He can also ask during the interview (for a less reliable answer). He also has to find out when he would start at the new job if he were to take it.

    I lean towards not taking personally. Stay in current job for at least a year or more. Though if it really is the job he wants, and if he doesn't think he'll have another opportunity ...

    It can be a big deal everywhere depending on the level of the job. A ten to twenty percent raise (rough estimate) is nothing to scoff at. It adds up. Additionally, being in a higher paying job improves your own value and leverage down the line. That's a general rule everywhere.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Darkanlan, Meloman and Cosmic_ like this.
  5. Katsono

    Katsono Roaming xiu!

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    9,538
    Reading List:
    Link
    The US being a more liberal and expensive place than other Western countries, that less than two dollars don't seem like that much by themselves.

    The cost-benefit balance of slight more against however worse the job is, might not be worth it. Well of course there's how your career would evolve, but say you're a little State worker making an average wage, wouldn't start working in a kitchen just because they get paid more would you?
     
  6. WinByDying

    WinByDying I can count to four

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    459
    Reading List:
    Link
    US being more expensive? I don't know about that. Buying stuff like computer components is cheaper there, they don't have VAT (on non-imported/exported goods), only a sales tax. Taxes in general are lower as well, I think. Costs highly depends on where you live etc. of course. Living in Silicon Valley means losing half your wage to renting an apartment.

    In the US two dollars could matter a lot, especially as a young employee in jobs not paying that much. Minimum wage is 7.25. Even if you were at 10, or 20, it would still be a noticeable increase. Similar reasoning for Europe.

    Raising your wage improves your starting position in future negotiations. Yes, even two bucks. At least, if the friend wants to climb up or job-hop or something along those lines.

    Yeah, that's why I lean towards the friend keeping the current job. Nice environment, stable job better suited to his current needs.

    The type of job matters as well of course. What I said was under assumption that the job was of similar standing.
     
    Darkanlan likes this.
  7. erowarrior

    erowarrior Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    668
    Reading List:
    Link
    It's an hourly salary, so it would be 15 more $ per day and 450 more $ at the end of month.
     
  8. WinByDying

    WinByDying I can count to four

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    459
    Reading List:
    Link
    Napkin math: 1.75*8*20 = 280. A more realistic number. Four work weeks of eight hours a day. It's still a sizeable increase. Before or after tax though? No idea.
     
  9. Traveling Chef

    Traveling Chef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2016
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    184
    Reading List:
    Link
    in america that extra 1.75 does add up, though your work enviroment is also important. I had a buddy leave a state level government job for a cashier position because 1. the work wasn't as demanding. 2. they paid 0.60$ more. 3. the cashier job had better insurance benefits and 4. he couldnt stand the work enviromenthe was in. he told me he would have taken the cashier job even if the pay wasnt higher simply because the work enviroment he was in was completely toxic.
     
    Darkanlan likes this.
  10. autumnscarf

    autumnscarf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    439
    Reading List:
    Link
    Can we call 'this friend' Bob? It'll make things easier to follow.

    This forum is not the place I would go for good career advice. Try reddit.com/r/personalfinance and reddit.com/r/careerguidance, and also talk to friends who work in this industry.

    Burning bridges for a job where your job security may be jeopardized because you have to request time off regularly probably isn't worth it.

    However, in some cases it's still worth going to the interview if you can be up front about how much time off you need per month. It really depends on the job, especially if the job is one where the company would prefer you work less hours so they can pay you less, which can be especially relevant to county-level municipal jobs because of limited budgets.

    In most cases, Bob's instinct is right. Requesting 2+ days off per month to deal with personal issues generally doesn't fly too well in jobs paying hourly rates. But you won't know unless you interview.

    In industries with a lot of turnover, the people at the job you're leaving behind won't care if you're hopping to a better job. But that doesn't sound like the case for this situation, and it also sounds like the current job is better for Bob's flexible schedule requirements. In short, it depends.
     
    Bad Storm, Meloman, Darkanlan and 2 others like this.
  11. Westeller

    Westeller gonz you're next! Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    5,140
    Likes Received:
    14,761
    Reading List:
    Link
    Wouldn't worry too much about not having enough experience with the job you have. The reality is that you learn to do a job by actually doing that job. Always. It's fine to mess up a bit and it's fine to not be sure of yourself for awhile. You're not supposed to, or expected to, enter any job as a super veteran who knows exactly what is expected of them and is utterly familiar with their work environment. No. What matters is that you learn and adapt.
     
  12. Katsono

    Katsono Roaming xiu!

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    9,538
    Reading List:
    Link
    I was implying that the state job is good anyway, of course if it's actually not (I guess it doesn't compare with european bureaucracy) then you'd have to reverse the situation.

    Although it sucks to downgrade to being a cashier;
     
    Traveling Chef likes this.
  13. Darkanlan

    Darkanlan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    586
    Reading List:
    Link
    What your friend needs to consider most is the job environment and how well he gets along with his coworkers. If the place he's at now is more flexible, he gets along well with his coworkers and there are still opportunities to move up position wise or pay wise, it's better to stay. If it's still a good environment but the chances of raises or promotion don't exist, then it's a dead end job which for most people isn't a good thing. That is unless you're older and don't care about moving up anymore since you've long lived past your ambitious youth phase and are just waiting for retirement. In that case that sort of comfortable job while waiting to retire is something ideal.

    Now as for the new place that they're looking at applying for, is it a stop over on going to another department or is it one they'd like to stay in for the foreseeable future? If it's their dream job, then chances are it's better to take a chance when you have one on the condition that you're not jumping at a job that you can have another chance to get a few years later while having a better skill set from the current job which would earn better pay / position at the new department. Some people will change their jobs every couple of years, each time they do it's in a new department for better pay. Reason for it is simply because moving up in one place is very hard, getting your resume out there to other places makes it easier to move up, but it's best to have at least a year or two between switches, otherwise you'd only end up looking unreliable.
     
  14. IronValkyrie10126

    IronValkyrie10126 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    69
    Reading List:
    Link
    It honestly depends on where you live. The cost of living is different for each state. It might not mean much for some states, but others having that extra money could mean the world.
     
  15. cap.toon

    cap.toon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    261
    Reading List:
    Link
    When the friend broke the news about accepting the friend’s current job, it was a position she had never dream of getting—like never. Not a possibility in her mind. The postion wasn’t even posted. That’s how much of a miracle this was. The friend applied for another front desk position; before Christmas the friend was offered an HR 1 position. So I’m rooting for the friend to keep it; mainly cause I have seen the county open up similar/same postion every year or so. Maybe there is a high overturn rate. Idk if either positions could lead to promotion. I’m assuming the current job would need a college degree in the area to help boost or maybe if they like her a lot; and the Desired job has little promotion capabilty other than jumping up to be someone who hold more responsibility along the ranks: for example worker 1 (desk greeting), worker 2 (back office support), and worker 3 (hold cases and direct work with manager). The friend is looking for stability and low stress.

    The friend hasn’t tell me anything about the boss, aside from the fact that the boss indeed did start out as a small HR staff; and the boss have a degree in this area.

    Pronouncing names is something everyone can learn with time, it is rather the friend has to learn to pronounce them from paper alone. I cry for the friend. Peace.

    Yea. I was the one who brought up the probation question because it is the county. However, the friend will ask during interview. Plus, this position open almost every year. They generate an eligibility list In case their staff leave or so. They are probably looking to hire, but the list stay valid until the end of the year. So I had encouraged the friend to try and make it onto the eligibility list.

    Yea I heard the same too. State government are toxic, but what was his position at the state level that even a cashier position would pay more in money and benefits? The heck—I have believe all this time that government jobs are the best, even if it is overworking and toxic, when it comes to pays and wages; well not anymore I guess.

    Agree, but I’m looking for a chat from the normal average Joe. It’s not my problem, so I’m not too serious. But it is good to arm up in case my friend come back for a second chat.

    This friend work at a factory plant. Started as a seasonal/temp work with data entry. It definitely wouldn’t matter if this friend still was a temp. This friend can leave whenever because this friend had laid it out that this friend would still be job hunting when this friend took the temp job. The last supervisors were fine with it because they do hired a lot of seasonal/temp. But the new postion is a permanent, nonexempt position. So just leaving isn’t professional, and because the factor has their peak during certain seasons—it’s hard to just up and go.
     
  16. King0Mik

    King0Mik 【An Actual Idiot】

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2017
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    519
    Reading List:
    Link
    It's probably an hourly pay (if this is in America), so it's $1.75 more per hour. I think 40 work hours per week is around average, so that would be $70 more per week, and then $3,640 more per year.

    If you're working closer to minimum wage, then $1.75 more could be a somewhat significant increase.
     
  17. Katsono

    Katsono Roaming xiu!

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    9,538
    Reading List:
    Link
    Hey I guessed that much!

    Well it depends on the percentage it increases, I figure.
     
  18. DiabolicGod

    DiabolicGod [Chaotic Organizor] [Enemy of Productivity]

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,425
    Likes Received:
    881
    Reading List:
    Link
    friggin use google and search for "'insert name' name pronounciation"...

    aside from that, he just gotta flip the coin between a job he is okay with or a job with slightly higher pay that he does not really know much about (even though he applied for it!). can't he check out the higher paying job somehow? and also, he should take in his capability of advancement in each job. Can he reach a high position with a pay of over 10k per month within 20-30 years? or is the job a permanent scrub position? does he want to climb the ladder there or not? Can he imagine himself doing this job for over 5 years without any promotion? will he have enough time for his social life and perhaps enough time to apply for other jobs if he wants to leave? will he be able to find any jobs when he leaves if he has done a shitty job for 5-10 years?

    once you/your friend can answer these questions the decision should be easy to make.
     
  19. Traveling Chef

    Traveling Chef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2016
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    184
    Reading List:
    Link
    his was the third highest manager position at a local Vehicle emissions Inspection program or Veip station. the job was easy enough but the people were the problem, there was a whole lot of "highschool" drama from a bunch of people who were late twenties to early thirties. alot of dumb arguements about really banal things and alot of he said she said mudslinging, from a group of adults. all he wanted to do was the job but other managers and lower level employees would drag him into the mess and then get angry with him when he didnt agree either way. he quit cuss he just wanted to go to his job, do it, and get paid, not babysit a bunch of grown adults.
     
  20. Meloman

    Meloman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    473
    Reading List:
    Link
    Errr, HR is not stressful? If it’s truly so in your friend’s case- I would have stayed in that current position.

    I used to work in hotels, in 3-5 positions. I always wanted to be at the reception, so I understand the idea of wanting something like that. But due to various factors I got any other job apart from reception. It was frustrating at the time, but looking back at it I was actually the most content (?) while working on the floors out of all the jobs I have had. And when I got that job at first I thought it was not what I wanted. But looking back at it I am glad I had that job. My next job was definitely less pleasant...

    So I think that if 1.75 is not too important for your friend- good work environment is more important. As for pronunciation or what not- after 4-6 months she’ll get used to it. No one is born with all the skills. If her boss is nice enough to tech her the ropes and patient about mistakes- I’d stay there.

    Honestly, doctor’s bills from stressful work environment burnouts are more costly than the 1.75 addition per hour.

    You friend should consider future consequences of her choice. Also, her quitting after 1-2 months for no good reason- this will stay on her work record (at least in the country where I live), so the next-next employers might frown at the “job hopping “ tendencies. I know my employers didn’t like that about me, even when my shortest work time was six months.