Thoughts on euthenasia

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by pass1478, May 28, 2020.

  1. animanaicT

    animanaicT Nobody Important

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    Simple answer, yea im fine with it but its more complicated than just yea.
     
  2. Zeusomega

    Zeusomega M.D of Olympus Pvt Ltd. Seeking [Boltzmann brain]

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    This might be extremely rude but if you are ok with it what's your wish.













    Which one would you prefer? Cultivation world, isekai western fantasy?, Or the same world


    Please forgive me if It was too offensive. :blobflag: _(_ _)_.









    I wish for your speedy recovery, don't lose hope yet.
     
  3. ExcitableFoci

    ExcitableFoci Well-Known Member

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    In the case someone wishes to read an opposed opinion:

    upload_2020-5-28_14-36-53.png

    A fast google of "arguments against euthanasia" brings you these sentences pinned at the very top of the page.

    That's it. The only people that disagree with the legalization of euthanasia are those who don't know how it works or are simply too dumb to understand how euthanasia works administratively.

    No sir, euthanasia ain't gonna let depressed teens commit suicide just cuz they are sad. There is tons of paperwork to be done, psychiatric assessments, and professional help that will be offered first before a seal of approval.

    People with depression very rarely are given that seal of approval. Only people who are truly walking wrecks can go past that wall.

    No sir, euthanasia isn't going to encourage mass suicides from all around the country either. Just look up suicide rates in countries with legalized euthanasia. They are at normal rates.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  4. Deadmantellnotales

    Deadmantellnotales rebmeM nwonK-lleW

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    I support euthanasia, and it should be legal.
    Here's a section from my countries penal code: "Whoever attempts to commit suicide and does any act towards the commission of such offence, shall be punished with simple imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year or with fine, or with both."

    If you have a right to live, then you should also have the right to die.

    Well, govt do their best to deter its citizen to acquire easy way out, so the desperate idiots choose ways which make them suffer painfully death, in worst case life long disability, like how idiots try to hang themself without knowing basics of how hanging works and get a very painful ticket to next life.

    If you want to know more about euthanasia check these guys out : https://exitinternational.net/
     
  5. Effugium

    Effugium [Investigator], Praise Shigure-sama

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    I approve if the dying person want to do it
     
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  6. Lazriser

    Lazriser Well-Known Member

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    The act itself must be done relative to the suppose circumstances of the victim and relationship between them; and that both have prior agreement to execute said act, or the circumstances permit such an act to be followed thereupon by the request of the bereaved.
     
  7. Zaart

    Zaart Deer Master Race

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    well i don't agree with you on that, an hospital's goal is to help the ills.
    if death is the only cure for them then death they should be able to have ^^
    and in any case, even if i were to agree with you on this, we could have something other than hospital take care of it, like the ill could make a demand to the governement to ask for this, and after reviewing his file allow, or not him chosing death ^^
     
  8. pass1478

    pass1478 I'm in Despair!

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    Death is not a "cure", to me at least. I don't count a dead person who had cancer, a "cured" person.
     
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  9. Polar_cruise

    Polar_cruise Well-Known Member

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    Good question OP,

    Do you think euthanasia should be illegal or legal? Is it against code of medical ethics, Moral values. No matter how much you contemplate on the term "life" from your individual perspective, you can't rationally answer this question. In fact you need to get know as well as experience about human being with sentience has been suffering enormously from mental illness, who is incapable of enjoying life in any way shape or form, who lives every single day with rational despair at the fact that there is no silver lining for their personal condition, there is merely neural dysregulation and cognitive impairment, daily unease, distress, angst, apathy and lack of any semblance of emotion that have rendered their life utterly intolerable.
     
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  10. asriu

    asriu fu~ fu~ fu~

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    it debate about moral or ethnic more hmm about feeling about family involved on case that euthanasia may occur~

    imo basically that~ more neutral section on this debate is finance problem~ extreme case is those who live on coma~

    personally this cat is neutral stance
    this cat don't buy right to die is right to live or how you word it cuz it mean legalized suicide indirectly~ this cat also don't buy forced to live despite sickness or condition which forced someone to drain it mentality is good either~

    why only that point?
    how about it have potential to reduce advancement toward terminal ill patient treatment?

    like it or not science need them for data, hard cold data disregard feeling to make better thing~
    for country that have good reputation on administration or really low on corruption or other negative reputation, it may work~ for country which still far from it such as this cat country Indonesia nope there plenty way to work around administration~

    the argument about euthanasia reduce value on human live more like fear we start to think it ok to kill yourself or someone~ more negative thing businesses about killing~
    well another moral dilemma

    on neutral stand outside moral or ethics this cat support or against euthanasia only considering economy side~ if family can't finance medical bill and the country or anything else also not willing to support then the patient have right to die to reduce finance problem~ vice versa~

    yup that kinda cold if we don't wanna put moral, ethics and feeling on this debate~
     
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  11. pass1478

    pass1478 I'm in Despair!

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    Just saw this. I'm sure you're aware that your analogy is very one-sided and can't really be properly applied in this situation where the "slaver" truly intends to help the "slaves."

    And yes to the first question, just note that "experiments" aren't necessarily cruel or inhumane. It's a cold decision and people will have to suffer for the sake of the others in the future. I know I can only say this because I'm not the one suffering (or am I?), but it's all about perspective. And I don't think it's not viable, for a society, as a whole.
     
  12. Siela

    Siela Active Member

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    If we are looking at this from a medical point of view, I think that palliative care should first be explored.

    Palliative care is an approach that improves the quality of life of patients and their families facing the problem associated with life-threatening illness, through the prevention and relief of suffering by means of early identification and impeccable assessment and treatment of pain and other problems, physical, psychosocial and spiritual. Palliative care:

    • provides relief from pain and other distressing symptoms;
    • affirms life and regards dying as a normal process;
    • intends neither to hasten or postpone death;
    • integrates the psychological and spiritual aspects of patient care;
    • offers a support system to help patients live as actively as possible until death;
    • offers a support system to help the family cope during the patients illness and in their own bereavement;
    • uses a team approach to address the needs of patients and their families, including bereavement counselling, if indicated;
    • will enhance quality of life, and may also positively influence the course of illness;
    • is applicable early in the course of illness, in conjunction with other therapies that are intended to prolong life, such as chemotherapy or radiation therapy, and includes those investigations needed to better understand and manage distressing clinical complications.

    WHO Definition of Palliative Care for Children
    Palliative care for children represents a special, albeit closely related field to adult palliative care. WHO’s definition of palliative care appropriate for children and their families is as follows; the principles apply to other paediatric chronic disorders (WHO; 1998a):

    • Palliative care for children is the active total care of the child's body, mind and spirit, and also involves giving support to the family.
    • It begins when illness is diagnosed, and continues regardless of whether or not a child receives treatment directed at the disease.
    • Health providers must evaluate and alleviate a child's physical, psychological, and social distress.
    • Effective palliative care requires a broad multidisciplinary approach that includes the family and makes use of available community resources; it can be successfully implemented even if resources are limited.
    • It can be provided in tertiary care facilities, in community health centres and even in children's homes.
    Taken from: https://www.who.int/cancer/palliative/definition/en/

    TLDR: Essentially, palliative care seeks to improve the quality of life by preventing/alleviating the pain caused by the illness and also address the other problems, be it physical, psychosocial and/or spiritual.

    I feel that euthanasia should not be the first thought to have especially when there is a medical discipline that specialises in addressing these issues.

    But of course, I understand that there are usually multiple factors surrounding a scenario and the person could have already approached/tried all sorts of help but have come to the conclusion that the only choice left is euthanasia.

    So, I just want to say that, don’t give up. I think that someone somewhere would be willing to help.
    If you need help with palliative care, then perhaps I can be of help!
     
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  13. ExcitableFoci

    ExcitableFoci Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    No sir, one thing does not cancel the other.

    upload_2020-5-28_16-48-14.png

    No sir, countries like the Netherlands or Switzerland that had euthanasia legalized for a good while didn't magically make their population believe that life has a lesser value than before either. I will repeat myself, there are long procedures to determine if you are able to be assisted in suicide. Almost all assisted suicides are people with terminal illnesses or in great amounts of chronic pain. They aren't killing people, they are helping people. If anything, they are respecting their lives.

    Your argument does not make sense. Why would lives lose value this way?
     

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  14. Zaart

    Zaart Deer Master Race

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    well i use the second meaning ^^
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/cure
    i see what you mean, but for someone who has no hope of coming out of this alive, giving them death is the only cure.
    after all they suffer, we have no way of treating this so if the only way out is death so be it ^^
     
  15. bakato

    bakato Well-Known Member

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    But the “slaver” isn’t helping the “slaves” nor do they intend to. What you’re describing helps others, not the ones suffering. Those championing slavery also claimed to be helping their slaves, teaching savages about civilization.

    You are aware that human testing and experimentation only occurs with the consent of the patient, right? You are denying their basic freedom and rights.
     
  16. pass1478

    pass1478 I'm in Despair!

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    There are people who get out of their depression or survive their suicide. Treat it like it has no solution, then it has no solution. Don't just think one is already a lost cause.
    One last thing, there ARE people who got out of their coma, vegetative states, etc. Just gonna point thay out.
    "But the “slaver” isn’t helping the “slaves” nor do they intend to"
    That's the point. Do you think doctors, psychologists, and all the other people in the medical field don't try to help their patients? They are helping those who suffer by finding a solution for them and all their fellow sufferers.

    And as the point I've said above, you're basically giving up on them. They already gave up on themselves, at least believe in them. Say that there's a suicidal person here right now, would you be able to say "It's okay to kill yourself" or something of the like?
    What if they get through it? What if the person on the hospital bed gets through it all?
    How did you net get what cat girl meant?
    These are LONG TERM effects. Effects that won't appear instantly, they are subtle and can't be easily detected. These are effects on society, the moral and ethical sides of it.
    Euthenasia is synonymous with suicide, and suicide is more often than not a disregard for one's life. If we entertain the idea that such a thing should just "okay," it would definitely be a form of devaluing a person's life.

    Entertaining the option that one could just take his or her life, why wouldn't that affect society's outlook on the value of a person?
    Not in its entirety, maybe. But it definitely does.
     
  17. Zaart

    Zaart Deer Master Race

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    That was why i said "suffer" and "can't be treated any other way" >.>
    i'm not talking about depression man, nor coma, since both of them are outside of the two categories i listed above
    no i'm talking about a man whose illness force him to stay in bed, knowing that he would die, that nothing could be done for him, whose whole body hurt and who was left alone by his family whom cannot bear to see him like this.

    i'm not saying anyone could come and say "hey i'd like to die" no i'm saying that those who truly cannot control anything in their life anymore, should at least be able to chose their death
     
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  18. pass1478

    pass1478 I'm in Despair!

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    Oh, I though you were making a general statement or judgement on it, not just for an individual and a special/specific case.
     
  19. Zaart

    Zaart Deer Master Race

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    that's what i said in my first post man XD
    but yeah no biggie ^^ have a good philosophical journey =P
     
  20. ExcitableFoci

    ExcitableFoci Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I really don´t know if you guys are trolling or something.

    You are literally providing the same line of arguments people used to say to protest against the legalization of weed.

    I will repeat myself for the last time. Using more simple concepts.

    Euthanasia is a procedure regulated by the government. Governments like having citizens that pay taxes for as long as they possibly can. Hence, why would they let healthy tax payers an easy way out? They gotta implement measures to lose the least amount of money possible. Which would be the current state of euthanasia in most countries. A rigid procedure that only lets the most serious cases like people with very painful terminal illnesses that literally beg every day to die or dudes with very hardcore depressions that cause public disturbances.

    Society won't devalue lives. Because it does not benefit the economy nor society. Governments would find a way to crack down on those types of thinking if they even appear in the first place. It's literally one of the functions of the government. Capitalistic societies want living consumers, not dead wasted investments.

    Lemme give you actual data. In Switzerland. From the 18.300 people that die of cancer each year, only about 1000 were given the approval of having euthanasia. They don't go around giving people the option of euthanasia like candy.

    No amount of time will make normal look at people who get euthanasia and think "WhY DoN't I cOMmiT sUicIdE too?!?!?!!!?!?!?!?!??!!"

    Disregard of one's life is only acquired via depression, stupidity, or brainwashing. It is virtually impossible that euthanasia will make people disregard their lives 1/100 of what shit like "Give your life for democracy!" "Give your blood for your country!" "DEFEND YOUR COUNTRY" already does to encourage people to sign up to die in a ditch somewhere in the middle east.

    You have to actively drill that shit into someone's mind to make it work. Psychology does not work like that with euthanasia dude.

    Capitalism and pretty much every other type of governmental systems invest into healthcare cuz its intrinsically linked with the populace's physical and mental wellbeing. Look at America for example. Healthcare is a busyness. People pay tons of money for cutting edge technology. Its as basic as supply and demand. Euthanasia won't do a single dent to the multi-billionaire demand for better treatments for the ill.

    You should know that euthanasia is already legal in my country, I ain't winning anything by providing all this info. It is up to you to decide if you want to open your mind or not.