I'm not dissappointed in the translators , i'm not dissappointed in WW or QI , but damn i'm dissappointed after i read every comment on WW from the announcement
Let's just ignore the fact QI issued threats to rightful owner of exclusive rights to 20 of their novels, have been sending not nice e-mails to translators, accusing WW of poaching and now THEY are poaching, using 50 cent army, sending one of translators as their official representative to try to clean this mess instead doing it themselves (well it backfired) started the whole mess in NUF community and list goes on. Well there is a huge difference between acting the right way and forcing yourself on others. Honestly suming up your post is just like stating - it doesn't matter I raped someone atleast I had sex. Maybe for some there is no difference from who they are buying goods as long as it's provided but well - the same people are annoyed when their own boss/shop worker or anyone else doesn't treat them right.QI already proved they only care about money - nothing else. You think how long they would keep those mediocre translators which in a longer run will be a reason to retranslating all chapters because it doesn't have enough quality to be paid product at west markets? In some cases people and companies have only one chance and well QI destroyed it. Before calling others idiots next time try to take whole situation in count - not highlighting only those aspects you think are good. Otherwise you can even say pedophiles are good childminders because they like kids - yeah? How it sounds? PS If they acted this way at the very beggining I wonder what they would do in the future? But yeah - gagging orders would be on place then and we wouldn't hear about it. By the way - Chinese companies are well know on international markets to use shady tactics and using their power to supress those against them. Do you really think if they acted this way once they wouldn't do it next time - especially when there are people like you with applaud their actions only because you see some short time benefits for yourself? Before calling others idiots check do you by yourself doesn't fit this description.
WW only has right to publish the translated version of the novel for next 10 years - WW is not owner of these novel, it belong to Qidian and writer - WW is not owner of the translation, it belong to the translator - WW said they have the *exclusive* right of some kind from Qidian, but WW never define what the exclusivity prefer to, it could means a lot of things
Again you - proven paid shill from QI. WW is rightful owner of exclusive rights to translation of 20 those novels as you state by yourself for next 10 years. It's exactly what I wrote. WW PAID for it then QI not only tried to revoke those rights from them but even steal already translated chapters - an evidence? Words of QI representative in thread http://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/licensing-issues-of-wuxiaworld.37613/ "As known to all, Qidian and WuxiaWorld (hereinafter referred to as WW) came to an agreement several months ago to authorize WW to translate 20 novels for Qidian, which means the ownership of the translations will still belong to Qidian.Thus from this week onwards, we are going to officially request WW to send all 20 titles to us.". So now please tell me is it truth : - do WW paid for exclusive authorization of translation for those 20 novels (thus they are owner of rights on the ground of lending them for set amount of time) - do QI claimed they are owner of translated work? (to be it even more funny you are telling now how WW is not owner of the translation, it belong to the translators - funny how narration is changing depending on many factors) If WW have authorization from QI it mean WW can halt rightfully any translation of those 20 authorized novels within those years they got authorization for. In essential even if QI would want to translate it themselves - they can't. On top of that QI said in this thread http://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/qidians-announcement.37767/ those words (orginal words with spelling mistake) "We hope to build a standard copyright licensing policy that can protect the interests of both original authors and transalators." - so why they have been sending threats to WW - they have authorization they paid for? Why they wanted revoke rights from WW? Why they wanted to steal translated chapters from translators and then start talking how they want to protect interest of translators? PS Ren words regarding what you wrote - exclusive - have been about this sentence from QI : "Last but not least, regarding the cooperation with WuxiaWorld we have to reiterate that Qidian authorized WuxiaWorld the nonexclusive right of translation for 20 of Qidian's novels, but no authorization of any kind to our works besides the 20 stories mentioned above." If you don't believe me there is Ren response in thread I mentioned above http://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/qidians-announcement.37767/page-4#post-1920051 Your disinformation wouldn't work with me
WW said WW have exclusive right. Qidian said they they don't have exclusive right basically, this is a he say vs. she say situation, before someone show real proof (e.g. the contract) If you can choose to believe WW, I can choose to believe Qidian (in fact I don't belive Qidian, I think Qidian probably deliberately write the contract in an ambiguous way, and later interpret the way Qidian want) Also, think about it, for those unfinised novels of these 20 novels, Qidian can ask writer to prematurely end the story and continue the story as a sequal, how WW will counter this? Also, Qidian don't have to clain the ownership the translation, as long as Qidian has the ownership of the original novel, it has the right to stop anyone to publish the translated novel. So this alone give Qidian the advantage to buy the translation in a very low price, and this is what Qidian are doing right now.
so its basically ww saying "we can" but wont show the contract to prove they have exclusive right and that it is undisputable. if there is a contract.. im sure QI made one that benefits them. and they have every right to as the ORIGINAL OWNER.
If they have signed over the licensing agreement, they do not have every right >.> The only thing I'm lost on is that they should have already have the names of the 20 novels under that agreement... And they made no mention of the +5 other qidian novel that were supposed to be "grandfathered in" at a later date that Ren mentioned during the verbal agreement that they had.
also. why is it that people bitch about QIs shady ways of doing things. but will approve of translators making a damn patreon with "waymarks" that are basically paywall except shitload more expensive. but can also be considered as a threat. "oh. we can work daily with small donations you know. but.. MONEY" they now moved from donations. a "legal" way to justify an unlicensed fan translation, to, getting patreon. a pay service that is in no way a donation the second some get bonuses. translators are greedy and are cunts. this mess started with those types of translators
Since everyone is pulling stuff out of their ass I am talking to you @Its Michael I should do the same That comment I agree with
A verbal agreement is binding when you have a third party witnesses, which are normally present during contract signings
1. QI started this whole shitstorm - they have been accusing WW and slander them instead keeping this private business matter, then send several paid shills like JungleLucian or you (I'm rather certain you are JungleLucian). On top of that they are claiming "we are the best" in the same time acting like pardon my language dickheads. On other side of argument we have Ren - long time member of our community which have done more than other. He always is chosing options the best for community and even make a gamble quitting his job. Guess who have a lot better standing in my opinion and is a lot more trustworthy especially when they claimed WW have been poaching - those claims have been dismissed by translators in question - yet now they are poaching. 2. QI will the end up in court because it's simple contract avoidance done on purpose and QI would need to prove it have nothing to do with whole disagreement. Good luck with that when story is suddenly ending. On top of that if Amazon or other worldwide publishers will hear about such action from QI they wouldn't cooperate with them because potential losses out of bad PR would be higher than potential gains. Believe me many people in the west despite companies acting this way and many publishers chosen to kick off authors from their platform in face of bad pr. If QI would chose such a way - well they are just braindead then Maybe it will work in China but on west markets if it would be annouced I doubt many people will chose to partner with QI or even cooperate with them especially when QI will do such shady thing to their old business partner 3. I'm not sure about what is this point because I have been saying how QI have been threatening translators which HAVE exclusive authorization from QI - their words in my previous post. Especially fun in correlation to your words are words of QI representative on NUF - "With the help of our platform, fan translators are able to translate any stories within our public library for free". It starting to be funny how you can't follow such things and yet talking how QI is good etc - no they acted like pardon my language dickheads because they are exactly this - nothing else. @Suijin - they can't show you contract because of NDA. QI doesn't care about NDA (we can notice that when noodle start to write as QI representative and included facts being under NDA) but Ren does. Showing whole contract now will be breaching of agreement so it will be the same as shooting yourself in foot. Now we can just wait for court case. @Wujigege maybe you didn't notice but many translations speed up I'm not pulling anything out of my ass like you claim I do - I only talk about facts and data - apparently paid shills like @tencent_hater are living in parallel universe where QI acted right and is nice.
Well maybe because the way the acted towards OWNERS OF RIGHTS THEY SOLD? You can't eat a cookie and have a cookie. QI is like a hooker trying to state "I'm a princess" now. They can't change what they tried to do and done already. Maybe for you the only thing which matters is "if there would be more novels to read" - no matter do someone will destroy community and spew on people putting their whole carrers on line in order to translate novels for us. Maybe you can spew shit on such person but I have my principles and don't have a price. You can't buy me using to that some novels or flattery - actions speak louder than words. It's Ren who is one of fillars of this community, he is the one who put his whole carrer and basically life on line and make a gamble. If you don't have even a lil bit of respect towards him - so be it. But don't forget there is many people taking such things in account. Believe me many people (me included) wouldn't be against QI if they wouldn't start this mess or just keep this whole thing private. Yes - if QI would keep this whole matter private I doubt Ren would make it public thus I wouldn't have any issue with QI at all, damn I will even support any translator joining them. You can't treat QI as a legit/normal company when they are acting like angry 5y old running around and kicking everyone because his mother don't want to buy him some toys. If they would make public announcement in which they would say sorry to both WW and community I wouldn't be against them - I would become neutral. For me honour and loyalty are two things I think most of.
The contract is under NDA, they cannot just show it to everyone. From the hints by RWX, WW has the exclusive rights to publish the translations of those novels for the next 10 (?) years. As for the original owner part: I own a house. We write a contract saying that you rent it for the next 10 years and pay for it in advance. A week later I show up and kick you out, then tell you that it's fine, even though we had an agreement and you have already payed for me, I am the ORIGINAL OWNER, so this place is mine. The furniture you moved in is now mine too, just because the house belongs to me, so thanks for that. I'm sure you would not argue against any of this anyway, not with the original owner.
I know you want WW to win, for the sake of discussion, let's assume all WW claim are true, and WW win all the cases on court. then, WW has 20 novels, and additional 10 (arbitrary number here) novels by the oral agreement, then what's next? - WW has a competitor who has 10^6 novels, infinite resource (comparing to WW), and no moral whatsoever. - How can WW attract more translator, when Qidian can afford a better offer (legal threat and money) . And remember a lot of the translator are students, working with Qidian (one of top 10 company in the world) or WW, which sounds better in their resume, and help them land a better job after graduation? And qidian promise translator additional work (i.e. financial possibility), if web novel is adapt to Game/Anime/Drama, can WW offer any of these?
your arguements will end up running in a circle solely because you are "loyal" and makes any attempt at a prolonged discussion seem pointless... and without the specifics of the contract. neither one of us is right. tch.
Does that make you a paid WW shill? You can easily go by QI's own postings and know they really don't have PR folks with great grasp of the English language. Believe it or not a lot of folks do see the plus side to QI and all the novels they are currently delivering. Perhaps Jungle and Tencent hater are just happy to have more novels and consistent releases. Anyway seems low to be name calling. Anyway I agree with you on one thing that QI should have never made public their legal disagreements with WW.
More novels and consistent releases? Before this whole thing broke out, I was reading things over at QI and very often those releases were anything but consistent, but let's put that aside for a bit. More novels? They have started a few from scratch. Great. What about all the translations that were halted because QI's standpoint is "you join us, or drop the novel"? Let's ignore whether or not this is the right way to go about things (after all, your argument is about more novels) and just focus on all the novels that are dropped because of QI. QI doesn't even have enough translators to pick them up, so all the readers are left hanging for who knows how long. If you look around a bit, is this really what you think "more novels" looks like? They started maybe like 6-8 new novels and forced many-many more to be dropped. Overall it isn't actually more, at least now and in the foreseeable future it certainly isn't.