I follow quite a few MTLers that actually put effort on their work and are working alone or just with a second editor. (I was the real one is mtl'd if I remember correctly) And to the point MTL looks like a real novel, I think it's worth it to put the effort. Can I give you a personal preference? Always think "localization" vs "translation" I don't really like when MTL's "leave" expressions from the original language, like "noonim" or suffix like "Chan" or "sempai" most translators that leave them say "they don't know a way to write them" or that "there are no similar words" That's the job of the translator, to put effort into wording things in a way that give the same meaning and feel... Heck I'm Mexican, you don't see me saying "pinche Lazy writer" hehehehe
The issue with wattpad it that it's shit in terms of accessibility. If people post on wattpad I'd rather just read it on a pirate site, at least they will let me change the font size. I That's interesting. I'm the total opposite. I dislike when people translate things like ge and jie into brother and sister because it sounds off. Plus, there a lot of words that in my opinion should stay untranslated because when converted to english they lose a lot of nuance that can actually be really important to the plot.
If it sounds off, the translator didn't do a good job localizing the work, I've read plenty that work without using foreign suffix which is the point of an actual localization vs just plain translation
Agree. For example, with chinese language, there's alw naming words for calling people, such as brother from mother side, sister in law from father side, cousin from wherever side, or calling someone from a higher status or lower status, or just like how the emperor calls himself, etc. Most time, will translator use the correct translation or just general idea like sister in law, cousin, brother? They wont, right?
That's the job of the translator to localize and give wordings that make sense... And I've seen plenty that do the effort
But often, they don't do it. And instead erase the wordings with some sort of explanation or just omit the wordings hoping we wont know. For example, a character is clearly calling her brother with Eddie onisama but the english just straight to his name. I wouldnt know if I didnt read the original. Ah, well I'm just a reader, I dont have the rights or knowledge to say anything more abt this.
Oh well, as a writer in both english and spanish who has localized some of his work, I say there are ways to work with this. But well, it does take effort... But when it works it frikken works and is great.
Not to be rude, but you still haven't convinced me. There are some nuances that are hard to translate directly, so what do you suggest the translator do? If they just """"localise"""" it and ignore the original meaning that defeats the whole point for me. I'm here because I want to read the story the original author wanted to tell, not read the edited remix of the translator or """localiser""".
Can you? I don't want to be rude either, but I really doubt we have the societal and cultural "context" to completely relate to the wording and nuance of some of the phrases and expressions used in Asian works. Let me put a very dumb example, the MC calls her dog "Inuwan" which is a play of words that mean "dog bark" That's what makes the name funny because the MC haves a "bad naming sense" and every character is laughing at it and we don't know why (we don't know dog is "Inu" and the onomatopeya for barking is "wan wan") Unless the translator ads a comment at the end of the novel, we lack the context to understand why "inuwan" would be a dumb name. And even with the comment at the end, the joke is spoiled and we missed the intent of the author because we don't have that context. Instead of that, the translator puts some effort and names the dog "doggywoof" or "whiney" or something ridiculous that looks dumb and funny. "hah, that's a stupid name" there, the joke got localized and makes sense within the cultural context of what you're reading and you can skip the whole comment at the end and you laughed at the dumb joke when it happened continuing the pacing, tone and rhythm the author had going for it. "A Demon Lord’s Tale: Dungeons, Monster Girls, and Heartwarming Bliss" haves a very good localizer, that managed to capture how the story would sound if it was written in English from the start. People complain, but in the end it makes it funnier because the jokes are appropriate to the original intent of the author, you don't even notice it was originally written in Japanese and keep laughing at them. Perhaps it might not work in every single story, but do we really need to be reminded of the "chan" "san" "sempai" every time they say it? it's just a meaningless suffix in English that no one uses within context, and if it's a historical setting we have "lord" "lady" "miss" etc.
You literally didn't answer my question. "Inuwan" has a straightforward translation as you literally explained. I'm asking about hard to translate phrases/words with nuance that isn't conveyed by a direct translation. I'm not anti-localisation. In fact I dislike it when translators unnecessarily leave things untranslated when they have an obvious english equivalent. I enjoy translations that use English words to appropriately translate the original meaning. What I'm not a fan of is localisations that completely miss out the original meaning of a phrase/word. I On the subject of chan san etc, they aren't meaningless. I read foreign novels with the expectation that I will encounter foreign concepts. If I was freaked out by foreign language I wouldn't be here, I'd go read Harry Potter or something. I consume foreign media because I am willing to learn about foreign cultures. Going into foreign books with the attitude of not wanting to learn about foreign words is stupid to me.
Then learn Japanese? no, seriously because you're using a "translated" novel as a means to learn the language... you realize the irony in that statement? you'll never learn anything and remain at a "weeb" level... and implying I am "stupid" because I find those suffix annoying and inconsequential in a "translated" novel isn't nice... you would be better off watching anime with subtitles (and they don't add "chan" at the end of each name in those but you can hear them) Regarding the culture and ideology, the concepts can translate nicely without using those suffix... there are several deeper and more complex concepts that can be translated, Let's talk about the suffix, "sempai" you want to leave it? "Senior" there it's translated and localized, it sounds weird? well OF COURSE IT SOUNDS WEIRD, no one uses it in English, it's a basic cultural difference that you don't like in English but are very keen on accepting in Japanese, that's what I meant with the cultural context "Mary chan" ok "Little mary", "nee chan" "sis!", "Onesan" "Sister!", what? it really sounds "weird"? that's the culture... that's the exact same cultural context you wanted to "preserve" that they add words that are meant to imply a relationship between certain individuals. Can you accept them in English? if not, then you're not really talking about the cultural intonation, you just want the story to sound weeb. You missed the spot over there huh? please, next time don't imply people are "stupid" because they don't like something you like.
1. You still haven't answered my question. Good job on that. 2. I have no interest in learning Japanese. That's not the point. Let me try and put it another way. I like learning little tid bits about foreign language and culture. I am not reading novels with the intention of learning the language, but I am reading asian novels in part because I inherently enjoy the unique cultural concepts that I can't find in (for example) American books. Example: in historical china there was certain etiquette about bowing/kneeling to your superiors. Example: 666 is a chinese internet slang meant that works because of a pun. Example: in historical china people of different statuses had different ways of referring to themselves in place of pronouns. Those are some fun tid-bits I learnt about while reading asian novels. I have no intention of going to china and using any of those words in a conversation. Of course not. Most of those concepts are archaic anyways, I'm not going to go around saying "your highness" and kowtowing to random chinese people in the street. It's just some fun for my personal enjoyment. 3. I think you are making wild assumptions about me as some kind of "weeb" when the truth is I don't even read Japanese web novels all that much, ironically because I find that they translate very awkwardly into English. I have no issue with people translating a japanese honorific or whatever if they can make it work. I have already said that I am not fond of things being left unnecessarily untranslated. 4. Let's talk about sempai, I don't find translating it to "senior" as bad. I never said I did. You just assumed that about me. What I do find a little awkward is translating "Li-jie" as "Sister Li" because in English that is ordinarily used to refer to nuns. But it's not a big deal and it doesn't bother me overly much. What does bother me, for like the hundredth time, is when localising a word looses some of the original meaning that I would have liked to have. Translating "jie" to "sister" doesn't loose the meaning so it's fine. I will not complain about it. Even if it gives off the wrong connotations in English.
this question? "There are some nuances that are hard to translate directly, so what do you suggest the translator do?" You didn't read the examples I put?, even pointed at a particularly good "localization"... I already said "they need to put more effort" and "translate with the connotation and intent of the author". And the rest I already said "it may not work with all the novels" like the whole wuxia xianhua world that you need a frikken glossary to even begin to understand wtf the author is talking about (cultivator novels are well known to be confusing as heck if you're not familiar with the terms) but that's the point, you "can" find a way to convey in words what most of the other things mean. A good localization would find a simile of 666... like... "You're sooo coooooool"... which is what it means... And yes, I assumed a lot of things because you implied I was stupid, I reacted to that particular instance, I apologize. Still, with the suffix or whatever else, sometimes the translator doesn't know what to do with it and either leaves it or just directly translates it... which makes the reading awkward. a "localization" would look for a way to make the phrasing work to imply that "relationship" like giving each other nicknames like "runt" or something that makes sense according to context. And about the "weeb" thing, ok, not a weeb... is there a word for the same but with chinese or korean?? because it's the same notion, just different country and language.