What are the loopholes with my Mage Ranking System?

Discussion in 'Author Discussions' started by AIm21, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    So I have been developing a Universal Magic System and I am nearing completion, but I need some opinions on this as it is an untested system with no previous examples beside it sharing some similarity to Mahouka magic system.

    In my world, what determines if you are a strong or weak mage isn't mana nor the type of magic you have, but the spells you can create, how you create those spells, and fast you can create spells. As Mages are not Psychics in my world that can just materialize a fireball in his hand with his mind. For Mages the art of magic is all about the details you put into your magic spell to create a supernatural phenomenon. So to rank the mage in my world there are three methods... or actually just one country method, the standard Western method, and the eastern method.

    As why would the entire world have the same system of measuring something for places that rarely interact with each other? It is just unrealistic, but they all mages ranking have something to do with the use of there soul just like Metric and Imperial having something to do with numbers.

    So lets focus on that one country my MC will first be taking place that is similar to America that also has the belief of there exceptionalism to the standard metric in the world.

    In this country mages are rank according to the speed and power of the mages magic spell and the grading system below .

    *Author note*
    The Speed of a magic spell in my world is divided into two category because it takes time to form a magic spell and also time to activate the magic spell. The time to form a spell can take vastly longer then to activate the spell which may only take one second. But in some rare magic it is possible for this to be the opposite to be true as well, however, those kind of magic is usually not meant for one on one combat, but are traps and ambushes or use in seals.

    However, the speed of magic to form a spell is usually never taken into account anymore because a Mages in this time period don't form the magic by themselves, but use a Grimoire to form the spell for them, and the mage activate the magic spell that have been formed. For example a Grimoire can form a fireball in one second, but it might take an inexperienced mage to use three second to activate the magic spells effect and for magic spell with greater power it might take even longer.

    The longer it takes for a mage to activate the magic spell the weaker its effect will be because the moment you form a spell you have already created a supernatural phenomenon in the world and since a supernatural phenomenon is unnatural the world will try to revert back to its previous state and the only thing keeping the magic spell in existence is the combine mana in the surround and the mana inside of the form magic spell. So if you don't activate that fireball as quickly as possible it will dissipate in five second and if a magician use three second to activate the magic the fireball will only be flickering ball of flame by the time it activates.

    Why it would take so long for a mage to activite there magic is due to how they usually form the spell and did not input the detail of its activation either the time or condition. So the mage will have to manually activate their magic consciously like calling its chant, draw, or sing to activate there magic because not all Grimoire can see nor think. A way around this is by carving the magic spell into their soul and so whenever they use the magic spell it would activate subconsciously without needing to think about it. All magic carve into one soul has the activation time of there speed of thought. So any mage who uses the magic spell carve into their soul has nearly inescapable activation time against ordinary opponent without a suitable counter or defense. But carving a magic spell into one soul is not an easy thing to do as even soul has a data limit capacity that varies between individuals and also by carving a magic spell into soul can cause one to have a lower mana capacity then before as portions of ones mana will always go to the magic spell carve into soul to maintain its existence. As even carving a magic spell in the soul is the same as forming a spell and so it does not make it okay for the magic spell to exist as like creating a magic spell in the physical world your soul is trying to revert back to its previous state.

    The Power of a Magic Spell in my world doesn't come from how much Mana you can pack into a spell, but the efficiency of your spell, so if you pack spell with 1 mana, but has an efficiency of 100% using all the mana within the magic spell it would equal in power to a spell that use 10 mana, but have an efficiency of 10%.

    So what determines the power of a spell depends on the detail a magician puts into a spell.

    The simpler the details the easier it is to transfer the mages Mana into creating the supernatural phenomenon they desire and the process of adding details to a magic spell is a magic technique call Layering.

    As you create a magic spell by constructing a foundation layer then add more layer on top of it to increase the magic Spells complexity to perform greater supernatural phenomenon. But with each layer one adds to a spell the power weakens and when you can't add any more layers to increase the spells power then it is called a complete magic spell and the opposite is an Open Magic Spell, which is when the power of a spell hasn't been fully reach and further layers can be added to it without it being a waste of mana. But once an magic spell is completed it can't be improve further in power within the current framework of the spells layers and it would just then be a waste of mana to do so for nothing.

    So magic research in this world all comes down to the power of a magic spell and how to create a foundation layer that would allow further layering of a magic without losing more mana in the process for each layer of complexity is added to the spell. As a single difference in layer could be a regular fireball to a fireball that can split into five pieces to deal a wide area damage of attack.

    How layers of magic is made depends on how you form and activate magic as briefly stated in magic speed the way to form and activate magic can be split into three different magic techniques, Chants that use words from a magic phonetic language, Draw that use characters from a magic writing system, and Singing that use notes from a magic vocals sound as the basis to construct the form of magic layer. All there different method have there uses and drawback, but I am not going to explain them here as no one wants to read more of this paragraphs.

    Overgrade- Magic God: Can make master spells and has at least 1000 master spell carved.
    • Example: Red Armageddon(Master Spells) and Flame of Life(Master Spells)
    Grade 10- Archmage: Can make 750-1000 layer magic spells and has at least 750-1000 spell carved.
    • Example: Inferno Flames(750 Layers) and Flame of Heaven(1000 Layers).
    Grade 9- Imperial: Can make 500-750 layer magic spells and has at least 500-750 spell carved.
    • Example: Scorch Earth(500 Layers) and Inferno Flame(750 Layers).
    Grade 8- Royal: Can make 250-500 layer magic spells and has at least 250-500 spell carved.
    • Example: Lava Tsunami(250 Layers) and Scorch Earth(500 Layers).
    Grade 7- Court: Can make 100-250 layer magic spells and has at least 100-250 spell carved.
    • Example: Magma Eruption(100 Layers) and Lava Tsunami(250 Layers).
    Grade 6- Principle: Can make 75-100 layer magic spells and has at least 50-100 spell carved.
    • Example: Heatwave(75 Layers) and Magma Eruption(100 Layers).
    Grade 5- Deans: Can make 50-75 layer magic spells and has at least 10-50 spell carved.
    • Example: Firestorm Tornado(50 Layers) and Heatwave(75 Layers).
    Grade 4- Teachers: Can make 25-50 layer magic spells and has at least 5-10 spell carved.
    • Example: Fire Bullet Barrage(25 layer) and Firestorm Tornado(50 Layers).
    Grade 3- Graduates: Can make 10-25 layer magic spells and has at least 1-5 spell carved.
    • Example: Flame Lance(10 layer) and Fire Bullet Barrage(25 layer).
    Grade 2- Seniors: Can make 5-10 layer magic spells and activation takes 1-2s.
    • Example: Seeking Fire Arrows(5 layer) and Flame Lance(10 layer).
    Grade 1- Juniors: Can make 2-5 layer magic spells and activation takes 2-3s.
    • Example: Multi-Fireball(2 layer) and Seeking Fire Arrow(5 layers).
    Grade 0- Apprentices: Can only make foundational layer magic spells and activation takes 2-3s.
    • Examples: Fireball(1 layer) and Spark(1 layer) .

    *Author Note: Master Spells are complete magic that has 1000 layers yet uses perfect power with no wasted mana of the spell and having carved 1000 of these master spell into their souls allow a Magic God to used these spells at the speed of thought.

    So if you were to try and a find loophole in my mage ranking system that would make reading the rank of a mage personal ability inaccurate, beside them doing it intentionally, what would it be?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  2. Green Apple

    Green Apple Actually I'm secretly an orange.

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    if you just infodump readers with all this stuff they will become confused and miss all loopholes or holes in logic
     
  3. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    That is why I am doing it here as I probably won't be explaining this in the story without it being a giant info dump.
     
  4. Suijin

    Suijin Blood God [Medic]

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    simplify the fuck out of it.
    and define layers of the magic spell. because eventually those layers like in photoshop, will crash the shit out of itself,
     
  5. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    Layers are basically the commands you want the magic to do.
     
  6. Bakaturq

    Bakaturq Tell me, what do you see?

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    Set a limit/range for the spell constructed.
    As in, once they reach a certain level, the space with which they can apply the lines needed for the spell is used up and they can't go any further unless they understand the law of simplification.
    Aka
    When they are weak, they do not understand the spell foundation, and so seek to increase the complexity of spells.
    But once they reach a certain level, the only way to progress is to truly understand the law of the world which leads to the birth of spells, allowing them to simplify the spells allowing more space
    The age old method in xianxia where once you are on a high enough level, things simplify into speed and strength in battles
     
  7. Unrivaledfury

    Unrivaledfury Well-Known Member

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    A few examples would be better. 500+ layers seem too much for me. There are also elemental mages who don't need magical construction nor layer, they directly command or wish upon siprits. It would be better if you rank some popular mages according to your system.
     
  8. one eye

    one eye Aspire to became NEET

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    Type Language, rhythm, alphabet- when make a magic spell, does it will diference in strenght spell?
     
  9. Suijin

    Suijin Blood God [Medic]

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    i'll tell you immediately that that system is bullshit then.
    a spell of 1000 layers can basically say kill everyone, make them live again and kill them again for over 500 times.
    not to mention there is no competition in such a system.
     
  10. Warger

    Warger Well-Known Member

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    The system itself doesn't seem too bad though I'm a little uncertain about the naming sticking to roles rather than strength if that makes sense?

    Edit: Though I just realized it may be just Grade 1: with the titles being examples
     
  11. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    Of course there isn't, this is an Absolute measuring system, so accuracy of their abilities are given priority and 1000 layers are the Archmages and Magic Gods of my world that are exceptionally rare and the highest of mages.

    So there ability to kill everyone should be a given.
     
  12. SenjiQ

    SenjiQ [Wise, for a Bird]

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    listen, magic is inherently irrational. There will always be ways around it because of that. you may as well hand wave it as focusing on things like that will make you sound obsessed. For example. Shooting a massive fireball is impressive, but a human will die if a the wrong part of the brain is exposed to 1 joule of force. Both will instantly kill, but one is clearly easier than the other. And if such a simple way to kill exists, why doesn't everyone use that. Rule of cool needs to apply or you won't really have much of a story
     
  13. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    There are more magic than just to kill, there magic turn back time, magic to teleport, magic to create, and magic to destroy that need a lot of layers to be used at maximum effect. I am not erasing its irrationality, but give it more define rules for when it should be used.
     
  14. Freezy

    Freezy Well-Known Member

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    This layer stuff is really confusing. Why would a spell need thousands of layers? Give an example of the types of spells each rank can cast for us to get an idea.
     
  15. Rhypnic

    Rhypnic Well-Known Member

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    Am i the only one who just scrolling? :blobpopcorn:
     
  16. PotatoZero

    PotatoZero Well-known Potato

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    Why?
     
  17. AIm21

    AIm21 Well-Known Member

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    There you go I gave you two examples of fire magic from lowest to highest.
     
  18. deepon

    deepon One who inevitably awakens

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    Every layer adds to complexity, but how ? please explain using 3 example spells of different complexity. Also, complexity and layers don't always mean power, tatsuya's material burst is a good example. In programming terms it is a mere 2 layer spell, select and delete. Also please provide some analogy to your system like computer programming or electronic circuit or plumbing.
     
  19. JadeWhiteSkin

    JadeWhiteSkin please rescue~

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    What how can that be? With the extreme complexity of flame of heaven Id say it should be the grade flame of life, doesnt make sense you can use with with a magic spell that has less than 1000 layers...

    No srsly wtf do those example spell do?
     
  20. pirateking36

    pirateking36 [[-Worst King-]]

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    1. The grades have layer restrictions. Why? I mean if the guy is already a Grade 2 then shouldn't he be able to use Grade 1 spells but with faster cast time?

    2. If you repeatedly do a thing, you get good at it.So logically speaking , someone who has practiced a spell, lets say fireball, a 1000 times, shouldnt he have a faster cast time then what a guy who has only practiced it a 100 times will have?

    3. The concept of layers are too vague . What exactly determines the number of layers used for a spell. If a grade 0 imagines shooting an elongated fireball, wont it be called a fire arrow? Also, you put fireball and spark in the same category with same cast times. But naturally speaking isnt it easier to make a fire than electricity?