Which level system is better?

Discussion in 'Author Discussions' started by Mark Ward, Jul 24, 2021.

  1. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward New Member

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    Hi guys I would like your opinion on which system works best on a tower climbing novel.
    Would it be a simple alphabet system: L, S, A, B, C, D, E, F!
    Or power levels: 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc....
     
  2. Rafael wing

    Rafael wing Well-Known Member

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    Alphabets will give clear divisions whereas numbers will give more options .
     
  3. Deleted member 369806

    Deleted member 369806 Guest

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    :blob_plusone:
     
  4. slightofhand

    slightofhand Well-Known Member

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    Letters because at high levels, numbers are silly. Having a character with a power level of 100,000,000,000 vs one with 10,000,000,000 is difficult to distinguish and frankly ignored by the reader whereas a A vs S is simple to understand.
     
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  5. simak

    simak Well-Known Member

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    I grew up with trpg, so levels 1-20 and stats 3-18 for mortals.
    Lvl 0 = villager
    1-4 beginner
    5-8 mid
    9-12 established
    13+ high
    20 & above legendary
     
  6. DragonMage18

    DragonMage18 Outcast

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    I agree that using letters would be better, but could still get the same effect with levels. Tho, don't let them reach to high levels. An example could be one level for every floor climbed, making it a reward for overcoming a challenge.

    There is also the posibility of a combined system, that use both letters and levels.
     
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  7. Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhh Bruh

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    I agree with the others that using letters would be better, but then again if you aren't too lazy/don't mind typing out multiple numbers, then go for it. Either way, you will get the same effect with both it's just that one way is more simple and easier to see/understand than the other.
     
  8. Miserys_End

    Miserys_End 「Lv1 Pretend Person」I'm the preson i pretend to be

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    tbh i find both systems clunky for different reasons. So i think its better to match the system to your writing style rather then force one method over the other.

    numeric levels and stats is a double edged sword in that it gives a more defined power level. You also end up micromanaging stats so that they maintain relevance and can easily run away with the story(his power level is over 9,000,000,000).

    Using some kind of designation(like a letter, color, or metal) to group power levels and skills on the other hand offers a large ammount of wiggle room in which to work. However it means each classification becomes more abstract. How do you define a person or skill that is on the cusp of the next higher tier without adding yet more classifications(eg high rank bronze vs low ranked silver)
     
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  9. ToastedRossi

    ToastedRossi Well-Known Member

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    I don't like either system, but of the two the letter system is far superior. The reason is that if you give numbers to the readers then they're going to expect these numbers to correlate with one another. So you'd expect 200 to be twice as strong as 100, and 10,000 to be ten times as strong as 1000. But no author is going to be able to use this kind of number consistently, so it's better to just not use it at all.
     
  10. Darius Drake

    Darius Drake A poster of verbose posts

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    For how you want to measure power, it depends on multiple factors, most of which depends on the story you're giving. The main thing is that a numerical system is presented as if it's number's are objective, while a lettering system is presented as if it's rankings are subjective. Basically, a Power Level 20 has twice as much growth as a Power Level 10, if they're not outright twice as strong, and thus should, arguably, always win the fight. However, a person only increases from B rank to A rank when they display sufficient capability to do so, and not a moment before. Additionally, if you set it up right, it's entirely possible for a C rank to take out an A rank, particularly if the A rank is hindered while the C rank is empowered. Think of an A rank fire mage fighting a C rank wood mage in the middle of a forest that the A rank mage is trying to protect, and it's unlikely that the C rank would ever lose. Unless there's some sort of innate protection given by having higher levels, or combat skill is required to increase one's Power Level, a level 1000 wood mage should be able to defeat most level 2000 fire mage's in that situation, since the fire mage is prevented from utilising their specialty of fire magic.
    _________
    "Power Level's" can give clear indications of how strong a person is, but strength isn't everything in a fight, and the comparison clarity that it gives can lead to problematic situations. For example, *A* has a Power Level of 100, while *B* has a Power Level of 200, but *B*'s Power Level comes from physical/magical training without sparring, while *A*'s was developed in live combat. While *B* can hit at least twice as hard as *A* on an average strike, *A* would be able to avoid more strikes, will be able to capitalise on the blows they make better, and will be able to take hits better, to the point where *A* can win this fight with someone objectively twice as strong as they are. And that's just unarmed fighting, if you bring weapons, magical abilities, extra sensory perception (ESP), or other modifiers to the fight, the fight just becomes less and less clean, with more opportunities for *A*, who has experience dealing with the unexpected, to surprise *B*, though those additions do also have the potential to give *B* the potential to form a shield that can't be broken by *A*. If you disagree with this last statement, watch some Jojo's Bizzare Adventure, after they introduce Stands. A Stand is invincible... until it's weakness is discovered and exploited as a weapon against it, at which point even a person who's Stand can't be used to fight can defeat it with the appropriate strategy.

    And that's ignoring the whole mess that happened in Dragon Ball when it got to DBZ and introduced Power Levels. The intended point of Power Levels in DBZ was supposed to be that you could show that they were worthless, but then it became the Only Power Level's Matter Show, and the rate at which they grew increased exponentially due to the next baddy needing to be stronger than the last, to the point where they rapidly lost all meaning to the majority of the audience.
    _________
    For using a lettering system, that works best if there's a believed, or outright known, limit on people's strength. You're planning on having people climb a tower, probably growing in strength as they do so. So you either need to make the ranking dependant on the floor, or you need to make each floor have it's own ranking system for that floor.

    So if rank is dependant on the floor you reach, how soon do people reach E rank? Is it the second floor? The fourth? The tenth? The fifteenth? The five-hundredth? I'm assuming that the tower's true height isn't known, and the ranking is pretty useless if it's just naming people who have reached X floor, just use the floor number you reached as a power scale at that point. Everyone on the 5th floor is a Level 5 individual. Where are they on the Level 5 Scale? No idea! They're powerful simply because they managed to reach level 5, before turning around with their tail between their legs of the power there, and returning to level 3. So this option's completely pointless.

    If there a different power ranking for each floor, with F being those who are too weak to fight (children, and those with no good reason to be that high), E being for crafter's with no combat capability, D can fight the weakest monsters on the floor, C can fight an average monster on the floor, B can fight the strong monsters of the floor, A are preparing for the next floor, S (Super/Strong/Stupid/Stalled) are for either those who can easily go to the next floor or have returned from the next floor, and L (Legend/Loser/Locomotive) are those who have come down with the strength of a few floors above in a place with absolutely no danger to them, possibly as tourists.

    The problem with this is that every time your character goes up a level, it's like they're taking two steps back in power. "Oh, you dominated the lower level, to the point where you defeated someone who ran away from here? Congratulations on defeating someone who was too weak to protect themselves here. If we're optimistic, we'll put you about the same level of strength as standard NPC over there, though your lack of experience with the monsters at this level means that we'll have to treat you as a rank level, so you'll be the guy with the strength of a C rank fighting and learning from D ranks about how to survive here for the next few months, before you start your climb to be considered someone powerful again. Hope you didn't annoy anyone with links to a B or A rank up here. Oh, you did? And they know about it, as well as your new presence on this floor? Have a funeral plan for yourself, and have a nice rest of your life.
    _________
    All in all, there isn't a good power growth level system for a Tower Story that wasn't basically designed for the story in question, and even then they can have suspect elements. Or, to be more honest, power systems in and of themselves are suspect, and the only way they work is if the story presents them as being inaccurate at the best of times, but useful for broad strokes or helping with organisational paperwork.
     
  11. Xian Piete

    Xian Piete Author of many mediocre stories

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    If you use numbers like 1000 etc you get to use "It's over 9000!" references.
     
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