Discussion in 'Anime Discussion' started by Ghalad, Nov 13, 2017.
its time for the new generation i guess
The Lava Guy
1. Whitebeard was already dying since he was under IV due to sickness hence weakened
2.Add the toll of the war and injuries why he couldn't kill him
3. If Garp could beat the crap out of Akainu had Sengoku not Intervened then why couldnt he
TLDR: He was weakened due to his sickness and the war as he was already a dead man walking
I am pretty sure Whitebeard could use Haki. You can't survive the New World without it.
He was just too injured, old and probably at less than 50% of his powers and like Roger might have chosen where he died. Although I consider Whitebeard a coward when compared to Roger
I said he may not be proficient not he couldn't use it an yeaah I also mentioned Haki puts a lot of pressure on the body and mind given his condition I don't believe he could use it to the max even with Conquerors Haki
Hence why I called him a coward compared to Roger.
It was hinted in a flashback episode.
He never tried to conquer, just built a huge fleet/family
Garp winning that fight is questionable. Don't forget that he's Luffy's grandfather. He'll try to beat up people even if he has little chance of winning.
What's cowardly about him?
You do realize that WB conquered way more than Roger right? Roger seems to have had a small crew and just went adventuring around like Luffy. WB actually holds territory like FIshman island. The reason WB has a huge crew is because he wanted one. That was his goal as a pirate. To build a family.
Doesn't mean he's a coward just complacent. What WB wanted was family what Roger wanted was adventure. Two vastly different things. If WB wanted to be pirate king he'd already have been before there were any emperors or warlords. He united races under his name and even put fear into the Navy, World Government, Pirates, Emperors, Warlords, everyone. Until Black beard came and defeated Ace giving the Navy an advantage would they have dared to capture a member of his crew before? NO!! Would anyone touch a member of WB's crew? NO! Why? They all new that he'd storm them and take them on head first without a care because he'd do it for family.
like @Vincent1873 said WB isn't a coward and he's done a lot more than Roger in the aspect in which he ventured. Roger's ambition was to leave a legacy in which he implicated his wife (who had to carry Ace in her for 2 yrs and killing her) and ultimately lead to his own son's death. White Beard's ambition was ever lasting. He saught to unite all races and become a family this went on even after his death. I wont be surprised if they rally under Luffy at some point cause he is a hybrid of Roger and Whitebeard in the sense he wants to protect those in trouble (that he likes) he wants to adventure but is unwilling to progress while leaving his morels behind. Luffy doesn't protect everyone and he's selfish in only wanting to do what he wants especially if it gets in the way of his quest, so it'll be a rare thing for Luffy to actually put a flag down and claim it as his territory! In the end WhiteBeard isn't a coward he just lived the way he wanted not all pirates are meant to conquer.
I didn't mean Whitebeard was a coward in the literal sense of the word. You made a lot of sense, but I will argue that Roger protected people too, just like how Whitebeard's death lead to people under his protection suffering the same can be said about Roger.
Also, Roger had a more lasting legacy that Whitebeard: The Poneglyphs which are indestructible. I hope more of Roger's life is addressed.
It would make a wonderful side story
I usually take up to 3 months off One Piece so I watch in in arcs, so I don't know what is going on right now.
It was a fun discussion.
Again WB's goal was never to make a legacy but to have a family. Rogers was to adventure sure he helped others but it was on a lesser scale. The poneglyphs were created during the lost period Rogers was capable of reading them like Robin he even managed to modify a few no one Knows how but his crew maybe. Whitebeard knew his death would lead to chaos that's why he was raising Ace to be his replacement unlike Rogers who just let chaos rain as he laughed with the guillotine at his neck. Whiebeard and Rogers are two different in that Rogers is an extremist and Whitebeard is a moderate not liberal or conservative.. The people under WB will have a resurgence and WB's or G.D.R's stories would both be good side stories cause OP's good.
Like I said we do not know enough about Gol D Roger to say he did not want a family too and protected people
He died young due to sickness. Whitebeard got to live much longer.
Given how Raleigh behaved and even Shanks, protecting the younger generation, I would argue that Roger wanted to protect the younger generation. He found something from reading the Poneglyphs and was protecting people in his own way.
Not using the same method as Whitebeard but caring regardless.
At least I got hints of that.
That is why I argue that Roger helped the world in a larger scale than Whitebeard did
but unlike Whitebeard, a lot of Roger is still unknown
Oh so you don't know but assume more than whats evident? What of his actual family? How did he help them? Wife was hunted down child eventually killed. Started a world wide hunt for the One Piece. Countless pirates and navy dying due to the age of adventure resurgence. The Poneglyphs aren't unknown the world government obviously knows whats on it. The WG was built to stop people from looking into it in the first place! Its the piece of lost history from that time period that is lost. It details the locations of those weapons of mass destruction and other secrets. Gol D. Rogers wasn't a hero and calling Whitebeard a coward in comparison was uncalled for on any account. Rogers decided to play a little game on his death bed does it matter if it was for the greater good when it lead to the massive chaos of pirates setting sale and terrorizing the world?
I do believe there was a reason for Gol D.'s call to find the one piece as White Beard also did the same but Gol D isn't a hero and he's no better than Whitebeard.
Whitebeard found One Piece? I thought that he did not care about it.
I think you are being a bit too harsh on Gol D Roger. I think that he protected his family in his own way. He created a Yonkou in Shanks but like I said most of Roger's history is still unknown.
I said coward when compared to Roger because Roger dreamt big and chased and arguably achieved all his dreams and more
and last I checked he protected his son and wife pretty well. Maybe I am missing something
It will be retconned either way. I see Roger as a sort of Martyr
didn't say he found one piece he declared it was real and renewed everyones hope in finding it thus starting the second resurgence in the quest for the one piece
All he did was ask Garp to protect Ace but excluded his Wife and even then Garp was his enemy a very unreliable source for protecting ones child. He had an entire ships worth of crew mates including his first mate! I don't think he's protected them at all no one in one piece has a good father...
Again he had others hunting down his wife and having loads of babies maybe an entire generation checked if not killed at the time his child may have possibly could have been born. His wife had to carry the child forcibly for another year or 2 afterwards to make sure their child lived! So in the end was he a good Husband was he a good father?
He had absolutely no insurances that his child or wife would be taken care of even knowing anything relating to him and his legacy would be hunted down by the Navy and World Government. He relied on his wife to be able to sacrifice her life and his enemy to care for his child.
You're comparing two different agendas one for family the other for selfish adventuring...
Retconned? The only thing Eda retconns is the story of how Luffy and Shanks met that's been done like 5 times in movies and flash backs. Anything else has just been a high def retelling in a movie that's not necessarily cannon as they won't be revisited in the main story.
Roger a Mortyr? That's just strange!
Fair enough but I think Roger is more than what meets the eyes. He is more of a mystery compared to Whitebeard
About protecting his family and crew, I would argue that he protected them the best way he could: create so many new pirates that they could retire if they wanted to with so many new pirates taking the World Government's attention.
I think when the poneglyph mysteries are uncovered we will know more about Roger, whom I consider a very complex character
He's the central character to one piece lore of course he'll have a lot of mystery around him compared to Whitebeard who is an was just fodder to pad Luffy's traumatic experience if Gol D. Roger's life long rival was more mysterious living then the guy who died and started a revolution I'd be surprised. Of course WB did the same with his death on a lesser scale... Both have their paths Roger's just haven't been discovered by memebers outside his crew while Whitebeard did his deeds upfront.
I can't agree with him taking care of his family and you haven't provided enough details on how he even came close to taking care of his family. Especially since everyone in the Gol D. and Portgas family is dead...
I think that you contradict yourself a few times. What you consider Roger's flaws are his strong points. A good example is giving his son to his enemy and successfully protecting him as a result.
The closest living character to Roger for me is Dragon.
Seemingly living his son with the enemy but came to save him in Log town.
Roger was going go die. To me he protected his son and crew pretty well given his limitations.
If I recall correctly Ace's mother died due to childbirth and not from his enemies.
I would argue that with Garp given the task Ace would have been protected and a 2 year pregnancy term was not required.
I hope more of Roger's story is told.
Luffy is essentially walking in his footsteps.
Is the lightning user Enel part of canon or a filler character?
Nope didn't contradict myself ya just wasn't paying attention...
His sone died in the end because information about his son was still out there why was he even sought after before birth? Because he was Gol D.'s son
The complication from child birth as I stated multiple times was do to the mother holding Ace in herself for 2 yrs past his birth so that she could save Ace; this drained her energy reserves and she passed soon after birth.
Crew? There are no proof whatsoever that his crew was protected all we see is the Dark king an Shanks how do you even infer so much? Protected his family? Again how? He literally cause their deaths in the direct since that just being associated to him caused their lives to be ruined. Ace's whole childhood was mired by having to constantly hear about how great or how much of a scoundrel his father was and then lead to his capture and execution.
Garp couldn't do shit that's why he had to wait till after the mother successfully took away suspicions about Ace's origins.
Enel is canon he was part of an entire arc that was later recounted because it essentially showed the first usage of Haki which took years in development
I've said all I'm going to say cause at this point i'm only repeating myself
Was caught in two minds about replying but I wrote this already a while ago in color notes lol:
Why else did Roger die? He was too big a man to have a small reason has starting the pirate age as the major reason. Also Frankie's foster father and others respected him. He disbanded his crew to protect them. You can't gain so much respect if you were so selfish.
I would assume catching the ring Leader would appease any government but the world government was simply an exception to that
Separate names with a comma.