Discussion why do, Chinese protagonist almost always have a cheat or something.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by undead292, Jul 19, 2021.

  1. Saorihirai

    Saorihirai Well-Known Member

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    Woah….no. That’s a weird way of looking at it. At the end of the day, it’s all fiction and everything that happens whether given or taken away is all done by the author. Technically no one ever suffers, works hard, grieves or is happy because it’s all fake and the imagination of some person.

    yea. I don’t think hard work talent and good luck can be called “cheats”.

    taking into account that something is fiction and if the author does a good job at portraying the story, u can’t just say a characters “hard work” isn’t classified as hard work just because the author wrote it lol. Obv the author wrote it, it’s fiction. But looking at it from the perspective of the character and the fictional world, the character did work hard and reach his goal. And ofc that hard work could have been cushioned with natural talent, luck, and help from others. Just like how it is in real life. People who succeed in real life rarely tend to succeed without talent, luck, and help.

    We love to say “oh plot armor” and while it is a definite problem in fiction and story telling, you would be surprised to see how real life people who succeed in almost impossible things seem to have some sort of “plot armor”.
     
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  2. ongoingwhy

    ongoingwhy Pomu

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    Yeah, but they don't have plot armor that dogs them throughout their lives and make them succeed in everything like protagonists. They suffer lots of failures as well, just that these failures are not published.
     
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  3. Saorihirai

    Saorihirai Well-Known Member

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    yeah, that’s more of a problem with the author in failing to convey struggle. If you look at the past war generals on history that accomplished almost “cheat like” achievements, like Alexander the Great or Genghis Khan or whoever, it almost seems like they have plot armor taking into account that they survived countless life or death scenarios over and over again. Ofc they died in the end because they were human but u get my point.

    The issue is that these authors put no stress, tension, or urgency in the lives of the protagonist. Protagonists in trash stories never face consequences. Death isn’t the only consequence you know. And even when these protagonists come at the end of their journey through their hard work, that hard work is never portrayed or conveyed correctly. It’s almost like a given. And that’s honestly a issue not with the “plot armor” but with how these authors don’t know how to express or portray tension.

    Honestly, hard work not portrayed as “hard work” comes off as cheap. Not because the character didn’t work hard but because the author didn’t know how to convey the fact that “hard work is the most rewarding and obvious thing to do, yet also the hardest thing to do in the world.” So that can come off as cheap plot armor or like a cheat.
     
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  4. Lissi

    Lissi 『Queen of Lissidom』『Holy Chibi』『Western Birdy』『⚓』

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    I don't think "hard work" should be called a cheat, but talent and good luck, if not a cheat, is at the very least a (sometimes overwhelming, especially in terms of luck) advantage that the protagonist has over the side characters that helps them do great in life.
     
  5. Saorihirai

    Saorihirai Well-Known Member

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    That’s honestly just how it is in real life as well. People are born with talent and people can live or die on the whims of luck. I would think the issue is in the delivery of it. Everyone suffers setbacks and faces consequences for their or other people’s decisions, and most of all, face risk. It’s the authors job to make the reader feel the “risk” of every situation even if the protagonist survives.
     
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  6. Occulus

    Occulus Well-Known Member

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    Sevens - MC can literally use 7 top tier abilities while most people can only use one and have an entire lineage of top tier rulers advising him

    Dungeon Defense - MC has the favorability cheat + knows about major characters + important events

    Dungeon Battle Royale - No idea, haven't read this one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2021
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  7. undead292

    undead292 Active Member

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    my my bad i was not talking
     
  8. Lissi

    Lissi 『Queen of Lissidom』『Holy Chibi』『Western Birdy』『⚓』

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    Mhm~ Circling back to the OP's point, if this all took place in a CN novel (i.e. MC is someone from the slums, but through talent, luck, hard work ascends to the position of the most powerful person in society), would you call it a (CN-novel-specific) "cheat"
    So you don't actually have examples of good novels without "cheats", or you just listed the wrong novels?
     
  9. Saorihirai

    Saorihirai Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely depends on how the author shows the journey. Also “most powerful person in society” is a very vague and abstract statement. You have be more exact in ur meaning. Again there have been many cases in history where people do rise to power from extremely low statuses but the author should portray it accurately. So no, I won’t automatically call that a cheat.
     
  10. Lissi

    Lissi 『Queen of Lissidom』『Holy Chibi』『Western Birdy』『⚓』

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    What do you mean by "accurately"? Less vague?
    If I wrote a story summarizing the story of any great leader in history, if I glossed over their experiences with a "they experienced many hardships" (which would be true- just not detailed), would you call that "inaccurate"? A "cheat"?

    Let's simplify the power example. Let's just say, MC becomes the "richest person in the country". Specific enough? Cheat, yes/no.
     
  11. Kaylee

    Kaylee Well-Known Member

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    Well, in a way lol

    You dont read Harry Potter?

    I mean, the whole thing with parseltongue, and being alived from a death curse? Those are the ultimate cheat.
     
  12. Saorihirai

    Saorihirai Well-Known Member

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    First of all, when I said be more accurate I was referring to the term “hey I’m the strongest in this society”. Did u mean political power, strength like in fantasy novels, or wealth.

    And as for that specific case, again, no. Thats not a cheat. It’s weird you see that as a cheat. Obv the author should not summarize as that would be then a…trash novel but that’s what these novels do.

    you should study a bit of history, most of the merchants who became insanely rich start from the lower class.
     
  13. Risus

    Risus ✵ Enigmatic Poet ✵ Tiger ✵ Reese's ✵

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    Sometimes it's necessary if you want to even the odds
     
  14. dicaro2338

    dicaro2338 New Member

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    For a MC to rise, there are several options.

    Open mind to see unorthodox paths, extreme intelligence to outsmart everyone, a cheat to elevate one idiot over all, plot armor for unconditional victories.

    The first two are hard to write. Authors try to follow the cheat route. But unintentionally fall into the plot armor one. Plot armor is bad because it makes all actions meaningless.
     
  15. Kadmos1

    Kadmos1 Well-Known Member

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    What about odd-ing the evens?
     
  16. Lissi

    Lissi 『Queen of Lissidom』『Holy Chibi』『Western Birdy』『⚓』

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    ...???

    I don't see what I listed as a cheat. I'm saying from what the OP is saying in the thread, that's what I feel like they think is a cheat, and I also felt like that's what you were saying when you talked about badly done novels. Therefore, I asked for clarification.

    Please refrain from rude, ignorant comments when you didn't even read what the other person is saying properly.
     
  17. Saorihirai

    Saorihirai Well-Known Member

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    oops sorry about that, my bad. I typed that pretty early in the morning when I woke up so I apologize for the rude last line. I usually am pretty polite, don't know what happened...

    Um as for the point, I assumed by ur previous posts and that you were thinking a poor orphan from the slums rising to fame and wealth was an example of a cheat. For more accuracy I meant that even if someone is the most richest or the prime minster, or the strongest physically, that may not mean they are "the strongest in society". Even the best generals for ex could be thwarted via a palace game by a weak member of the royalty or something. So I just considered it a vague term in itself.

    Anyway, sorry for the confusion I guess. But yea, I don't consider those those scenarios a cheat, just poorly written or conveyed by the faults of the authors. (Because it has happened in history.)
     
  18. Risus

    Risus ✵ Enigmatic Poet ✵ Tiger ✵ Reese's ✵

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    That'll probably be a grimdark story
     
  19. kkgoh

    kkgoh Well-Known Member

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    Maybe ... it's a reflection of modern China's glass ceiling culture where it's inherently difficult for lower social/income classes to have significant upward mobility. Majority of Chinese who succeeded IRL have had numerous cheats. From rich and powerful daddies, to rich and powerful mommies. (Figuratively) every CN novel has a rich young master to reflect that.

    https://www.thestar.com.my/lifestyl...-flat-to-cope-with-the-demands-of-modern-life
    https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/...orce-country-gets-older-will-big-techs-ageist