Discussion Why do writers love sucking their own country's ****

Ok. I will use an example from outside the American continents to show what I meant.

Should I say "Asian movies" for movies from India?

 

You should say Bollywood.

 

But do you understand what I meant in my first post now?

 

This interpretation is very wrong. Chinese generally dislike Japanese not because of the invasions and the massacres in history but because Japanese still treat the war criminals as national heroes and worship them in the national shrine. And Chinese definitely remember all the good Japanese who supported Chinese revolutions and social progress. The problem is the Japanese society generally disregard the sad history. This is a significant difference between the post-war Japanese and German. Besides, not only Chinese have this feeling, but South Korean also share a complex feeling with Japanese. You cannot say South Korea hasn't "opened up" long enough. Another example is that Chinese doesn't have bad feelings towards Dutch, despite Dutch once butchered 10,000 Chinese in Batavia (Just as an example, no offense). The reason is that after the massacre, Dutch soon arrested the criminal, hence Chinese know who to blame.

 

Ugh... About that... The Chinese society does the same thing with their own recent history. But in their case it's state-enforced and self-censorship. Just because Mao was Chinese and the targets of his actions were fellow Chinese doesn't make him any less of a genocider than, say, Hitler.

 

It's actually both. The lack of contrition from Japan is what keeps the enmity from going away, but at the same time Japan gets to represent all the Imperialist nations for the Century of Humiliation. But the part about the difference between Japan and Germany is spot on. Germany has purposefully distanced itself from Nazi Germany, but Japan still embraces its Imperial Japan roots. For example, the grandfather of Shinzo Abe was a Class A war criminal (it's the worst category - if Hitler was up for trial, he'd be a Class A) and a significant number of prominent Japanese love talking up the glory days.

 

there's no problem with that (what the title says) i mean, who doesn't?

 

thank you for ur clarification!! outsiders are thinking we are mindlessly hating or doesn't have the right to complain at least someone has a clear brain

 

Chinese novel "The Traveler of Dimensions".
Chinese MC travels to Resident Evil 1 movie, has Qi so he rips open a metal container of a licker in front of others then burns the licker in one go after the others fail to kill it with guns.
So others see MC as god and ask if he is god, only for this line.

Spoiler: Sentences

"Oh my God! Li, are you god?" Alice asked first.

Li Xing looked at the crowd. I saw that although everyone didn't speak, the light revealed in his eyes let Li Xing know that Alice's question was obviously what they wanted to ask.

"I'm not a god," everyone was disappointed to hear Li Xing's answer. "But it's not certain that your god can beat me."

I would consider this as a low level of china general public ignorance of outside their nation and their pride. A fair amount of chinese novels by general public is at higher level than this.

I only started reading translated chinese novels two years ago. I had no opinions on china at all before then, I have seen people talking about chinese game players with their 'china number 1' and heard some things. I didn't notice or care back there since I have a serious distrust in knowledge that is spread from media like facebook or newspaper and what opposition states, much like the saying.

'History is written by the victors.'

So I had no negative feelings or opinions of china back then, I would have be fine even traveling there. Now a days, I refuse to go to china at all, simply because I fear for my safety or freedom there with not being chinese. The reason for my change of attitude is due to my experience of reading the chinese novels on uukanshu, which could be consider chinese version of fanfiction.net. A website for the general public, normal day people from teens to young adults that wouldn't be involved in government and should have more open mind compared to those who rarely explore on the internet and only can enrich their knowledge by local sources.

It actually frighten me out of ever visiting china due to the fact that large amount of novels from general public is so hostile, racist, disgusted with anyone not chinese. Their extreme nationalism make me believe that the general public would support anything chinese over non-chinese, I would think that if I happen to be in china and a chinese got drunk and pulled me into a fight, the general public would rather support the chinese and find some excuse to not have it being the chinese fault for the fight. Either the fear of a simple misunderstanding could lead to public beating or arrest due to chinese negative views to non-chinese. That not talking about the chinese government itself, that is a whole other case itself.

Maybe the general public and average person in china might not be that bad, still I find it very difficult to even consider visiting china to find out from what I am learning from what would be consider a source to general public, fanfiction I believe is a good way to better understand someone mindset. Since it is a story not based on world there you have to worry about views of country or nation, authors can be more open minded without fear of government wacking down on them since it is on a different world with different civilization but if that author still brings in the chinese nationalism in such a setting then it waves serious flags about the views of the author.

Good example was a chinese novel I read where the author could travel different anime/game worlds, first two worlds were fine with the author fitting in with the japanese anime/game culture. The MC goes to the Fatal Fury/King of Fighters universe, where he encounters Kim Kaphwan. (Who is a korean.) Kim Kaphwan is a good guy in the canon lore of Fatal Fury who is consider as a fighter of justice and accepts when others are a superior fighter. In this chinese novel the MC ends up facing Kim Kaphwan in a tournament and beats him, which the author writes about Kim Kaphwan inner mind about how Kim couldn't accept anyone beating his korean Taekwondo, how Korea can only be number 1 and basically thinking like a scum guy. I dropped that novel right away from how disgustly blatant the author was against koreans and how he shitted on the game canon lore just to have an excuse to write such a way.

I have found some good chinese authors and novels, that keeps me searching through chinese novels but the ratio of nationalism/racist novels to non-offensive novels is very worrying. There could be the excuse that the government anal censure has removed a lot of open minded authors and forcing more authors to follow nationalism thinking. There are examples of good novels like 'I am really a superstar' and others having been stopped by the government.

Either the government needs to be slapped around to be more open minded or the general public, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised if more and more people become more negative and start isolating China out of fear due to the actions of the chinese themselves.

 

What, that's not how it works. Chinese censorship is horrible, but it doesn't spare nationalistic books either. Yeah, there are a lot of racist Chinese people out there, but it's not any more (or less) reasonable to avoid China because of this as it is to avoid Japan or the US because there are a lot of racists in those countries as well.

 

I feel more comfortable with the idea of visiting US because from my knowledge so far, (which doesn't mean it true but it what decide my thoughts and feelings.) every country will do horrible shit for various reasons but some countries are more pressured by public opinion and some less so. US is a country where public opinion of population and other countries can force the country to reconsider, if someone is jailed by mistake or falsely and enough public opinion is raised about it then US in most cases will admit and release the person. China on the other hand, public opinion will just get a tank to the face. I feel that china government doesn't care at all about public opinion outside of china and most likely in china too, even if they did have some care about public opinion among chinese in china then I don't have much faith that enough of china population would care enough about a non-chinese being falsely jailed. Fact that the government jails chinese reporters often enough with rarely being released. (if at all.) Have to make you worry about anyone that isn't chinese that happen to post something on facebook while on china that the government didn't like and jail them.

Here is a possible case.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08...lian-writer-yang-hengjun-with-spying/11451984

Not sure about the above since it is media news, they aren't trust worthy to believe most details but the core I am able to believe due to china own actions in their censure and what I have seen by general public novels of their own views of their own nationalism. (It not like I read a novel written by an american teenager who promote china nationalism, my views on current china nationalism are what I have gathered from two years of reading novels written by chinese youth and young adults of their own views on their china nationalism. So fact that you can see such horrible level of nationalism from the same people it is for, is very frightening because everyone will play down their nationalism in their own views to what is more acceptable publicly. If these novels are the down played version of their nationalism then what is the reality in china.)

Every citizen of their nation will downplay their own nationalism in some regard. It is human nature, because they subconsciously see the nationalism of their nation a part of themselves since they were born and raised there. Even if they don't agree, they will still feel that views on one's nation will be them judging yourself, so everyone when talking about their own nation or nationalism will downplay it to make it more acceptable for general public. To be more accepted by others because it seems like they are more accepting of you too.

 

It's natural for people to feel pride or even superiority. This applies not only to individuals but the extended individual (the Nation, clan, family, etc.). It's part of human psychology, if you don't understand this basic principle then you are blind.

 

Partly true. However, we cannot say a group of people have no right to criticize others because they don't have the freedom to criticize their own problem, right?

 

what are u talking about? americans write about americans saving the entire world plenty of times

 

Apparently this thread is just never going to die and will keep slowly harvesting me some likes~~

If you study enough history you will know that this is one of those usual quips by the historically ignorant masses, murican and C ones particularly. One simply cannot help but be amused by how the confederacy gracefully let the winners write history. Oh wait.

This must sound very convincing in your head, but you would only be coincidentally correct. In fact, for most of the time that these hypernationalistic novels have been dominating the market, i.e. since before WWI started, the generic C person you might meet on the streets would typically exhibit the kind of jedi mind trick that Faux Noose would play.

And I mean this: If you ask them if the Americans are nice people, they will parrot the party line that C people should always cheer for the downfall of the American garment. But when you sell them stuff, mention basically any foreign country and they would snap them up faster than lemmings would fall off cliffs. Or when you have a white person in a conference room, their words would be taken with 3x more weight or more. Just the novelty factor alone already endears. This is a peoples who do not trust their own _food_ supply. Overt propaganda gets covert pushbacks. (Annoy them even more by pointing out that you learnt that in one of their Confucian schools as Lao Tsu said it.)

Instead, the real judge of whether you would be safe, would be to just go and ask white people who are already there. There is a very sudden strong dislike of Americans in C right now, and that is a supremely recent happening thanks to Trump. His election, and particularly his trade war, soured the relations better than decades upon decades of C daytime TV shows about WWII, be it about Jap atrocities or American ones (and mind you, every 3 months they would put up a new show about that, and the content would be lapped right up by the housewives and the elderly). All these, in less than 5 years.

I really urge you to watch the YT vid (link at "white people" above), for it is particularly realistic, and short too.

 

You are missing the point. The anger is NOT on "saving the world by one country". You don't understand because you have no idea what the conception of god is to white people rather than to Orientals. On the one side effort and luck is sufficient for one to ascend into godhood. To white people with only one god ever, that is not possible, and it signifies a grave insult to them if you claim otherwise. They have been under that kind of thinking and rule for so many millennia that this is bred into their genes now.

Of course, the rest of the world just eye-rolls when muricans, again, are the only people to save the world. It is only partly tolerable in superhero movies, where obviously the point is to let the little kids have a fun time.

But that is the exception that proves the rule: it is simply not in fashion for that kind of egoistical thinking to appear as the winning faction in fiction. Well, of course C and SK cannot help it, and J is still only halfway out of that, but if you read EU+UK writers, cooperation is far more common. Even Harry Potter had to have the rest of the wizarding world to support him.

Again, WWII is the reason why the world is the whimsical way it is. A failure to learn these things will make the world incomprehensible.

Edit:
I forgot to mention that the spoiler snippet is also particularly reeking of the insecurity: when muricans save the world, they will just cheer to their own team. The Jap ones, if they do that, tend to do that too. But when C (or SK) saves the world, they have to rub it in that the rest of the world have to pay them respects. Extremely typical behaviour of the insecure.

And it is also particularly ironic that outsiders would ask C "how did you do it?", whereas if it were any way else, the C defeated heroes never ask outsiders how they did it. That is, outsiders clearly desire to learn. The C must simply abacus their way to a nuclear bomb.

 

wow great insult, I wonder if white ppl ever consider if it's an insult when u do stuff like that to us chinese
https://comiconlinefree.com/comic/boxers-amp-saints
here read this, perfectly describe missionaries in china and why the boxer rebellion ever happened

 

1) I am not American
2) In fact, I am as yellow skinned as you must be
3) Can you imagine something opposite to that being published in C? There is no lack of such material. For example, the C media had been loudly parading the Nanking Massacre up until Covid-19. Would it have been possible to showcase, say, a Nazi officer in C complaining about how horrible the Jap were? Or a perspective from the Jap side? Or the fact that it was those who eventually made up the Taiwanese garment who were suffering in it?

4) Religious conflict and insults are the norm. The ignorant just keep doing it without introspection. The point of bringing it up is to make you think about what you have done wrong, not to make you think what hypocrisy others have done. Obviously they have done. But if you do not learn then you really also do not have a case to complain about the Japanese history textbooks.

 

since u know it's the norm than u know most ppl dont give a shit about what other religious groups think. also im atheist and western beliefs makes me annoyed. feel like explaining logic to a wall.

and what do u mean proudly? is remembering the death something bad? US have memorial day

 

Cause they can do whatever they want in their own works of fiction. Also, are you implying that they should be sucking other countries cocks? Maybe they could write about countries doing it to each other? *pfft*