Why I am Disillusioned With Anime

Discussion in 'Anime Discussion' started by Wujigege, Aug 14, 2021.

  1. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    I think you did not pay attention to the video.(or I published the wrong video)

    R rated movies were readjusted to PG 13. I think Star Wars was an example

    The same way old Seinen is modern shonen.

    There are many stories of Westerners coming back from Japan who get arrested for child pornography due to the different standards.

    There was a recent backlash against the CEO of Kadokawa when he suggested removing minors in swimsuits from shonen magazines.

    @youseiki had the link.

    On old seinen being modern shonen, it's easy to look up.

    I know for s fact that many Shonen anime movies have been released rated R


    I was referring to the obsession with loli.

    A pre teen and a 30 year old flat chested legal loli don't look the same.
    So I don't see any justification for pre teen love interests.

    I am mentally 50 but a dude
     
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  2. aShinyVaporeon

    aShinyVaporeon Well-Known Member

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    Here's a screenshot from this video, which is the one you linked, with its accompanying section of transcript:
    upload_2021-8-14_17-51-26.png

    I do know that there are a lot of shounen franchises that are considered more mature. For example, Attack on Titan, which is rated generally between 13 and 18, depending on the country and episode (source). However, I wouldn't say that these more mature franchises are no longer marketed to the shounen age range, which is 12-18, especially since it seems like it's fine for most of this age range in Japan.

    It's definitely possible that age ratings in ye olden days were more restricted, but we are talking about right now is what demographic they are being marketed to--and these are still categorized as shounen because they are featured on shounen magazines, which is also where they are being marketed. I suppose that this age range is more "teenager" than "kid", though.

    Didn't really think about that. I was just replying to the comment referring to a 30-year-old, mentally 50 "girl". So I guess I was skimming and missed the point...woops.

    Such considerations between legal and non-legal lolis are hard to make clear when, in the content they're portrayed in, they look identical. I'm...fairly sure they wouldn't look the same IRL, but I'm not really interested romancing anybody, much less people who look like children, so whatever.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
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  3. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    How about watching the entire video? My point was made right after around the 4 minute mark.

    " Above the age level of kids" was clearly stated.

    Inventing PG 13 was a obvious way to add adult content to kids movies which would not have been able to keep the PG rating.

    Similar rules were relaxed for Shonen, which makes modern Shonen to essentially be old seinen.
    There is a reason dudes who go to Japan to buy shonen magazines get arrested for child pornoraphy
    Sources:
    https://www.dailydot.com/parsec/uk-manga-fan-convicted-for-loli-possession/


    I have had this discussion so much that I have many sources its just been so long since I bothered to talk about it




    Someone should correct me if I am wrong but pictures of "Junior Idols* are in shonen magazines

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_idol

    To me people arguing that shonen is mostly watched by young boys is the same as people arguing that yaoi is mostly watched by gay dudes.
    Just because the characters are gay dudes.

    No one buys that
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
  4. Ginko Biloba

    Ginko Biloba [♤Blackjack Sect Mascot♤] [☆100MB SPAMMER☆]

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    A lot of them are targeted for younger people so yeah they'd be school aged. There are also some that explain why they have school age setting though like Angel beats (they are dead and they are supposed to be people who have regrets in life so they were sent to some world to fulfill their regrets and were turned into their youth form to fulfill it). Anime with school setting are kind of a hit and miss you'd get some that are bad but you'd also find some that are really good
     
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  5. Llamadragon

    Llamadragon Well-Known Member

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  6. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    To be people arguing that shonen is mostly watched by young boys is the same as people arguing that yaoi is mostly warched
    The point is that they are targetted at adults even though its called Shonen. That's why it's on Adult Swim.

    Adult Swim is the equivalent of Seinen.
    Why people deny this baffles me

    https://cartoonnetwork.fandom.com/wiki/Adult_Swim

    @aShinyVaporeon It looks like you are wrong about Adult Swim. It is targeted at adults not young boys. At least when it started showing anime all those years ago
     
  7. reagents 11

    reagents 11 disaster personified

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    It is directed at kids primarily hence all those kids friendly guidelines. Majority of anime i still find to enjoy that do target age seinen or mature is on cinemas as movies which audience age can be more strictly restricted. Back in 90 and early 2000 there do midnight adults series that runs on TV (in example evangelion). Perhaps things became more restricted as tv recordings became more common.
     
  8. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    My point is that in Japan those series are classified as Shonen but are shown on Adult Swim here
    Which basically makes them classified as Seinen.
    Someone tried to argue that Adult Swim is for young boys and not adults.

    I am disillusioned by anime because I see the character grow younger every year(I am the one getting older of course)
    But I still see people my age watching it.
    The excuse that the anime is targeted at just teens so lolicon is fine is garbage.
    There is a reason dudes coming from Japan after buying shonen content are arrested for child pornography.

    I am saying a target demographic for so-called shonen is adults. No need to deny that.
    I am in the target demographic but I have outgrown it
     
  9. aShinyVaporeon

    aShinyVaporeon Well-Known Member

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    Why would I need to watch a video to know that PG-13 isn’t for kids? It’s for teens, it’s in the name. Not everything above the age level of kids is adult.

    The main problem with your argument here is that you assume that shounen’s target demographic is “kids”. But it’s not, it’s teens. As I’ve mentioned earlier, as well. Kid does not include young adult, and ratings appropriate for young adults does not mean it’s only appropriate for adults.

    Erm, I think I kind of refuted that already. But let’s take a look at it again, shall we?
    Instead of repeating that Toonami is part of [adult swim]—yes, I get it already—let’s talk about how they are marketed in Japan.

    Also, can I mention that not all shounen anime is on Toonami anyway? Go look for the Netflix age rating or something.

    I know that many channels that air shounen anime are targeted for adults. However, that doesn’t mean that the target audience of shounen isn’t ‘shounen’, it means that it is considered too mature to air for kids. TV ratings for Naruto agree that most teens, also the age range of shounen anime, can watch it. The previously-discussed AOT is watchable by 14 and up for most episodes in the USA, and 16 and up for the rest.

    As Wikipedia notes about Toku and Toonami, they air anime “targeted toward young adults to adult audiences.” Also, some young adults watch it anyway (source).
    (image isn’t working so I guess I can only keep the link)

    [​IMG]
    I personally think that lolicon, as in, teens having romance is fine, no matter the demographic.

    Sexual content involving underaged individuals, fictional or not (although the line is blurred a bit more, since it’s debated whether a drawing of a kid can be consider cp; in Japan, lolicon in the context of 2D girls is protected under freedom of expression, but I personally don’t like it), shouldn’t be anywhere regardless of who it is marketed to. If it happens in the story, it doesn’t need to be shown.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
  10. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    You are moving the goalposts.
    I never mentioned Toonami.
    You claim to refute my argument but you are cherry-picking eg with the Cheddar video.

    It is called Adult Swim as in ADULT.

    I don't get how you say Adult means teens.

    I am not continuing this since you are not interested in reason

    Haha I find it laughable that Erased is a part of the list.
    Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the anime but it's about a kid with a grown-up brain
     
  11. reagents 11

    reagents 11 disaster personified

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    The guidelines they used is for teens. The characters they were written were teens. Sure there's complexity and themes that you perceives as for adults except the cultures of their manga and animes are always like that. To you whom grew on comics doesn't that make it ridiculous that it's them that have to cater to your standards ?
    Besides your point that their audiences is too expansive who exactly could limit such small minorities into the streams ? I mean you literally have My Little Pony a cartoons for toddlers and 3rd gradeschoolers whom attracted adults furries ? Whose to blame in this case ?

    What is this... Are you actually trying to say that Anime and Mangas should be as boring as American superhero comics ? So that only children can find it interesting ?
     
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  12. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    Haha I find it laughable that Erased is a part of the list.
    Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the anime hu
    Thats not my point.
    My point is that Western media invented PG 13 to find a middle ground between kids and adults only content.

    Japan doesn't have that but they similarly relaxed restrictions on adult content creating shonen from adult content. Thats why you have so called kids content that get flagged as child pornography because the target audience is not kids.
    It's adults. Child pornography is an extreme example but so called Shonen anime are being shown on adult swim because the target audience is adults.
    Nothing wrong with that but denying that the target audience is adult is rubbish.
    I am sure you don't consume anime because you are looking for child porn.
    I prefer stories with adult characters but it's hard to find those.
    Since I prefer the romance genre compared to detective where kids solving crime is not an issue compared to sexual relations, I just gave up on anime.

    There is a reason that the ranker list of anime with adult characters are mostly of anime 20 years or older.

    Loli is big business
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
  13. aShinyVaporeon

    aShinyVaporeon Well-Known Member

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    No, I never said that adult means teens. I've already stated, in fact, that adult swim is marketed for adults.
    I stated, actually, that
    I was pointing out that teen/young adult content is indeed the middle ground between adult and kid-friendly content.

    I mentioned Toonami, because that's where most of the anime on adult swim are aired, including Naruto, which you'd brought up. In fact, part of Naruto was on Toonami back when Toonami wasn't on adult swim, but that's besides the point.

    Doesn't everyone? Anybody can claim their opponent's evidence is cherry-picked, and it's pretty hard to refute without gathering large amounts of data.

    But which part of my evidence is cherry-picked? In the Cheddar video I misunderstood that you thought Star Wars was previously rated as R, hence the screencap. Afterwards, when you clarified that you were in fact saying that Star Wars was not kid-friendly. (Why would you say that "R rated movies were readjusted to PG 13", when they were never R-rated to begin with, though?) But, as I've pointed out earlier, I kind of already knew that. I mean, isn't the point of PG-13 to make sure 12 and under kids can't watch it?

    No, I wasn't cherry-picking with that video.

    What you claim is that PG-13 shouldn't exist, that all PG-13 is just R in sugar-coated shell so that they can earn more money off of it. That Star Wars isn't PG, and therefore should be R instead of PG-13. This is kind of flawed reasoning, at least in my mind, because you are claiming that anything with an age rating above PG is adult and shouldn't be shown to anyone under 17. So one of my neighbors, who is 16, shouldn't watch LOTR without her mom because it's too graphic for her. Oh god, all that violence. How could a fragile high school student bear it alone without an adult?

    No, I'm pretty sure it's not the target audience that matters, it's the fact that it's porn featuring an underaged individual. Because no matter who it's marketed to, if it's public, adults can get access to it.

    Yeah, I know it's pretty futile to be arguing with someone on the internet...usually when people get into these arguments they have pretty solid ideas already and it's real hard to budge them.


    ~~~INTERMISSION: ASHINYVAPOREAN HAS FOUND MORE INFO AFTER TYPING THAT HUGE CHUNK ABOVE~~~
    Eyy, AOT is rated R17+ in Japan (internal screaming) despite being rated generally around 15+ in English-speaking countries. So most of my arguments went *poof* and now all I can bank on is them being in shounen magazines. Which of course @Wujigege will proceed to say should be renamed to seinen magazines, as apparently the majority of readers are above 18 years old. Except V Jump and Saikyō Jump, their largest demographic is elementary schoolers, hilariously.

    哎呀,被打脸了, 真疼TT

    So yeah, it appears that darker shounen anime like AOT are adult-oriented, while less dark ones like Boruto and Black Clover have a large child fanbase as well as a teen one. (However, it should also be noted that a lot of the manga on V and Saikyō Jump are spinoffs of big shounen franchises like Dragon Ball and Naruto, which leads me to believe that a lot of shounen is still marketed to teen and below audiences, so I'd say it's still pretty unlikely that most anime is marketed towards adults)
     
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  14. osieorb18

    osieorb18 Queen of Sugar

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    Nobody's mentioned this yet, but there's an important cultural element to why high school age is common:

    Anime is about escapism, and for people in Japan, high school is the most lax, escapist time. The society is such that at a certain age, your life becomes much more one-dimensional. It's why you see a lot of Japanese people who do the same job at the same workplace for 40+ years. It's culturally normal. Sushi chefs who work for the same boss from the ground up. Authors who struggle their way along for decades. Standard salarymen who hope that maybe one day they'll be a manager. Not even a CEO or anything. Just a manager.
     
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  15. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    You forget the cafes. Maid cafes are popular but so are high school themed cafes.

    Enjo kosai too . Something I learnt from Initial D.
    Compensated dating with old men and high school girls.
    There was a story that painted a high school girl as the aggressor and quite rightly so but I believe it's usually the other way around
     
  16. Shiki

    Shiki Smile! Sweet! Sister! Sadistic! Shiki!

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    Can't it be appreciated in other way? I'm not a fan of anisong. I like it, but like 'it's nice to hear' without the effort to remember the title. On the other hand, a lot of anime have interesting BGM, like Yuki Kajiura's work, Yoko Kanno, etc (nowadays I just looked for the composer). Between anime and its BGM, the anime provides context on what the BGM is about. Like tearjerker scene, or battle scene, they're often accompanied with BGM, which makes listening to the BGM evoke similar feeling.
     
  17. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    I am not saying its not possible

    I am just disappointed that you rarely have adult characters in anime.
    I understand the obsession with high school.
    It is also cultural but I have zero nostalgia for high school.
    I just found it laughable that people deny that adults are also the target audience of shonen. I even pointed out that some had to air on Adult Swim but three person kept denying. Even arguing that Adult Swim is for minors. It's hilarious

    I don't listen to Kpop or Jpop but love the OSTs
     
  18. osieorb18

    osieorb18 Queen of Sugar

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    Japan also has some of the lost generation effect, so you get people relatively fresh out of high school or college who are right in the target audience in terms of Japanese people themselves, and are pining for that simpler, more free time that they used to have.
     
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  19. Wujigege

    Wujigege *Christian*SIMP*Comedian

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    I have zero nostalgia for my high school days. So I not that target audience.

    I made my peace with that.

    I do not like that people pretend that some of these Ecchi animes with breast grabbing and others are targeted at kids
     
  20. gyan7

    gyan7 Well-Known Member

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    That's so funny. But you're forgetting that those anime characters who you watched back when you were 2 years or older still aged with you. They only need a serialization!