Discussion why the arguments and hate against harems goes against everything history tells us

Cultivation: the natural way of conception, even better, it's free of charge

 

Your own argument points to how ridiculous the xianxia harems are. On one side you have a wealthy young master with a rich family. On the other side you have the bum MC with no backing who rescues the girl from marrying that rich wealthy young master. She then falls for the MC to join him along side the many other girls to form his harem.

The problem here is not with people thinking harems don't exist. Notice how nobody complains about harem in noble settings where you have main wife and concubines? The complain about harem is how ridiculous it is that the MC can even form that harem in the first place,

Add in the fact that harem members are treated as generic characters with no or 1 dimensional personalities, and it becomes frustrating.

If you read a CN female MC novel, and just take out the ridiculousness of the main character and look at her family. That is a more accurate representation of what a harem is actually like.

 

It's moot comparing harems in novels and harems irl.

Women in harem novels are in the harem because they want to be there, while most women in harems irl are there because of societal expectations, tradition, religious purposes, for alliances, or even because they are slaves.

The harem genre is a romantic version, lust-induced, wish-fulfilment without any liabilities.

In real life, just to remind you, women are a living breathing human beings too, humans are selfish and possessive af. Money makes the world go round, sure, but you aren't the only person who has it and they might actually be a better person than you.

 

Harems are perfectly reasonable in theory...

Harem novels are usually shit. Having harem in a novel is a red flag since it is most likely going to be badly implemented.

The problem is the implementation. Harem based fictional stories tend to have serious issues in writing. Too much screentime for skirt chasing over plot, while each girl is bland and unmemorable, with cookie cutter identical females without any character or depth.

This is not actually true. A superior mate is a vastly more desirable genetic target regardless of your species or gender, even if you have to share them.

Not to mention that any human with a shred of sense could see that being 3rd wife to a noble is better than being the sole wife of a subsistence farmer.

Certain laws and social pressure have managed to reduce the existence of harems in western society due to christian pressure (it is literally a crime, called bigamy. And a christian sin). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_polygamy

Actually, slavery is literally the only argument you gave that is not actually a pressure forcing people to be monogamous against their will. Societal expectation, tradition, religion, law are all pressuring people towards monogamy in western society. And alliances don't actually work if the next king on the throne is not of both bloodlines, so it also specifically pressures towards monogamy

But when given a chance harems can be found even in the western world (see baby momma phenomenon where unmarried women rely on the state for financial support while seeking out a successful male who has kids from multiple other women)

 

It is not that. What I hate in harem story is that either the harem is just going to be trophy wife to further the plot, or it is filled with harem antics between the protagonist and harem members, making the plot slowed down considerably and making other characters outside of a harem less important. When the story plot can move on, and characters get their development, it is when I don't mind harem.

 

I have nothing against a harem as per see since it's a novel. I dislike when they're just put in there without any real substance whatsoever, which goes for most of the novels.

 

The no harem faction is in the lead

 

In xianxia, both women and men can cultivate, so there shouldn't really be any gender inequalities as far as power is concerned... So it makes doesn't really make much sense for multiple powerful women to happily join a harem. In a setting where men/women are of equal standing, women happily sharing a man is very unrealistic and only happens in novels. Why join a harem when you can get easily get yourself a single devoted love interest?

 

1. You are ignoring the fact that before they start cultivating they are mortals. and usually only 1 in 10k mortals even has spirit roots to cultivate with. Meaning all cultivators are the product of the same normal human evolution. Where women prefer to share a superior mate rather than monopolize an inferior mate.

2. You are assuming only men can have harem and only females can be in a harem. A lesbian with a harem of females is actually surprisingly common in xianxia. As are old women with harems of young boys.

3. Not all cultivators are created equal. For every golden core there are countless formation establishment. for every formation establishment there are countless qi condensing disciples. I don't think I have ever seen a harem of equals in Xianxia. If it is a man with multiple women the man is usually a whole major realm above them or has a backer multiple major realms higher

4. If we are specifically talking about MC harems, the MC is usually spat upon as trash and is an incel at the start of the story. Typically some woman who has eyes but cannot see mt tai will tell him he is a frog wanting to eat swan meat and he should fuck off because she is not interested.
MC only collects his harem after he displays himself to be the next OverGod in the making. The love interests are talented... but only talented for mortals. None of them are MCs and they know it. They know they are not his equal, just as the readers do.

A. the single devoted love interest means inferior genes to your children. Why would you do this to your future children?

B. Resources! If a young master of a major clan gives his 10th concubine 1% of his allowance it is probably a million times more than than the net worth of your average poor rogue cultivator.

Resources are utterly critical for any cultivator. Those resources mean life extension. People in xianxia will literally devour their own family for a cultivation increase, or murder someone with great backing causing themselves to become a fugitive. Why in the world would they suddenly disdain something as harmless as joining someone's harem?

Fuck, I am a hetero man... I will happily join the husbando harem of an old ugly woman if she gave me xianxia pills

You are assuming that all women have Purity as an absolute Virtue and that no woman would ever settle for damaging her purity by accepting cultivation enhancers? that increase your lifespan, improve your health, improve quality of life, provide safety, and also gives you cool magic powers...
Yet no woman would ever be willing to "submit" to a wealthy man for such a thing?
Why not? 99% of humans regardless of gender will accept such an arrangement.

I have never seen a single example in xianxia of a woman falling for a loser MC.
Only when the MC displays himself to be a dragon among men does any woman ever falls for him.

You are making the mistake of only comparing their family status while ignoring the utterly critical personal status. In xianxia it does not matter if you were born a peasant so long as you disHe does not have the status of a young master, yet. But he shows personal talent that indicates he is going to surpass the entire clan of the young master.

 

The first female friend of the MC who MC usually treats as their little sister always likes the loser MC.

Also, MC is usually not stronger than the final young master of an arc, the young master usually just sends henchmen while the MC powers up.

And family status matters a lot too, it doesn't matter how talented you are if:
1) Their family probably killed hundreds of geniuses like the MC, the MC simply has plot armor. The future means nothing if you are dead today.
2) 1 person can't protect everyone at all times. This is precisely why factions are built. You can't take advantage of benefits no matter how strong you are if you don't have a faction protecting your interests.
3) Hell, there are plenty of female characters falling in love with the MC even when they are STRONGER than the MC.
4) The young master usually showed off great talent even before the MC showed up. Yet the female characters don't seem to care if they aren't the MC.

 

Yea but the thing is, you rarely see other talents with harems of their own (they're usually single or have 1 girl) or reverse harems with a strong woman. Although in some novels this isn't the case, but I've noticed that in most novels, it's almost as if everyone (even the dragon amongst men), are practicing monogamy except the main character.

 

Can you name one example? and remember we are talking about harems so she needs to be sexually attracted to the trash MC not merely "nice" (friendzoned) to him. And she needs to be a cultivator herself. as per the premise of the argument.

You literally quoted me saying TALENT. Not strength. If the young master is usually decades older than the MC, then the young master being higher level does not indicate he has more talent.

that is literally what I said.
I literally explained how most harems belong to young masters rather than MC's. As most women prefer the stability of a being a mistress to a young master over the long term potential of being the mistress of an MC

plot armor is referred to as "fate" or "luck" and is a known quantity.

Starting a faction is super easy if you have power and many many MCs in xianxia do it.

I literally addressed it. In literally in 100% of the cases of this happening the woman is stronger than the MC due to having a head start and the MC shows vastly greater potential than her. Making it obvious he will surpass her soon. Meaning she is just sinking her hooks into him early

Are you perhaps talking about cases where a specific individual woman disdains the young master and ends up being seduced by the MC?
What exactly do you think this proves? other than the fact she dislikes this one specific young master?

Just because she has standards and will not be interested in a cripple-trash MC, and is later swept off her feet by a genius MC, does not mean that the only thing she is interested in is a mathematical equation calculating exactly how much benefits she gets from each hookup.
It is perfectly reasonable to have standards (no cripple trash) and yet also reject a rich young master (I find his personality detestable)

Also whether the MC or the young master has a harem in both cases this is a pro harem argument. So... explicitly what I said.

I read countless xianxia and literally never came across a monogamy world.

 

I really can't understand how people think that harem are EVEN ALLOWED in xianxia, I mean, we can see some pervert cultivators that want to build an harem, but it shouldn't be the MC, why? It's simple, xianxia is a genre that ends in immortality, it's about immortals and stuff like sex and luxury are things from mortals, so, every single xianxia with an harem to me is bullshit, how can someone waste his time in something like that when he's in his path to become an immortal?

If we are talking about xuanhuan and wuxia, I can understand, ok, we can have some harem, but the main problem is that the plot around the harem sucks, its annoying and boring, its going to be the MC trying to save his girls all the time and we can NEVER expect any of them being relevant to the history cuz the MC is a superb genius, how can u have a bunch of wives that are as genius as the mc? It's impossible.

That's why I love the monogamy world, we can have a single superb female leader that can actually help the MC or be his motivation.

 

Harems aren't realistic. That is why they're enjoyable to read about in fantasy.

 

there is a lot to unpack here...
1. who exactly is it that you imagine would act as a police to enforce this ban on harems? xianxia is characterized as a jungle where might makes right. So who the fuck is going to be risking his life killing those with harems?

2. you consider harems a "luxury for mortals"... so what is the point of immortality and godlike power if you completely abstain from all luxuries? there are the occasional xianxia story with an MC who is a 1000 year old virgin who just cultivates all day non stop. But most MCs do go after luxuries.

3. The vast vast vast majority of cultivators never achieve immortality. they just get longevity. So making children is still wise.

4. For non MCs, clan resource management is such that harems are beneficial to your cultivation. For a small investment you can rapidly expand your clan which in turn expands your resource collection ability. Which in turn lets the top members of the clan shoot up in power. Not to mention that it is more rolls of the dice on having a member of your clan be accepted into a top sect / disciple of a master which would greatly uplift the entire clan.

5. MCs are usually so OP that them becoming an immortal is inevitable and whether they have a harem or not does not make a difference here.

6. Dual cultivation is a thing.

harems are literally real in reality.

 

Country where I reside, its monogamy by law. I am not talking about the Islamic states since their laws aren't valid for me. Talking about myself, if I want to get married. I can only marry a single person. Not multiple people! Hence, its not realistic for me in my part of the World and an enjoyable fantasy to read about.

 

1. you are utterly butchering the word "realistic". I think what you mean to say is unrelatable. as in "I am unable to relate to harems because polygamy is illegal in my country". Unrelatable is not the same as unrealistic. As you outright admit this is something that is real and happens in the real world

2. most harem xianxia does not have the MC marrying any of the haremettes. He just has a bunch of girlfriends. In countries where polygamy is banned you typically have chads who have dozens of women and get a bunch of baby mommas. This is legal while marrying multiple wives is illegal. So very few examples of xianxia harems actually run into the law issue. Although this might still be unrelatable for you if you are incapable of ever relating to a chad

 

I don't really like harem for a lot of reasons. Here are a couple of reasons:

1. In most fictions now a days it isn't really a harem instead its one guy being a doormat for a group of girls.

2. A lot of fiction and authors obsess over but its not the be and end all of relationships with women. You can have sex with a woman with no strings attached. You can fuck girls casually. It bothers me that they think that they have to have a relationship with the girl and get married if they fuck This is really prevalent in webfiction and fanfictions. Which to be fair is something you could expect given the type of people that written this type of shit

3. The girls are written poorly, basically they are trash. Some are useless waste of space that only cause trouble for the mc because they have to the damsel in distress to make the ML feel/look good. A lot of the times the girls are just dolls with a stereotypical personality and no depth

I just tried reading a Chinese webtoon called demonic emperor but is more apt to call it simp emperor. Some demonic cultivator got betray and killed. He hijacks a body of some random dude. The dude really love this girl so the MC basically inherited that love and he goes on a journey simping for the useless girl. I would not have a problem with this if the girl has some actually character development that makes me actually like her. But she basically there in the background to look good and be save by the MC. Plus considering the medium this is writen on, they aren't even going to have sex in the thousands of chapters the story has.

See Tales of demon and gods. A thousand of chapter already and the MC is still a virgin. The 2 girls are the dude is there in the background to look pretty and to be save by the MC. The girls are talents but are honestly living a pretty chill life as they have sugar daddy Nie Li. The story is what is considered a typically harem story now a days. No sex, No pay off, The girls are poorly developed waste of space

 

LMAO, first of all, isn't sex just a luxury? You have to understand that the concept of time is totally different for immortals, why would they care for sex or to build an harem instead of having someone that will actually follow his steps as a Dao companion? It's ok to go for luxuries but harem is way to much for the fucking MC.

btw Why would I care for randoms? I only care for MC and its totally bullshit that a MC can be the strongest guy in the entire story while wasting time in luxuries as harems and being plotted because he has a bunch of useless wives, those stories are FLAT.

Dual cultivation is the most bullshit thing in xianxia/wuxia stories, but I got your point, you prob love the cliche, I enjoy more about the Dao( Er Gen and Mao Ni), so I will never understand how anyone can enjoy the harem, I can spell dozens of novels that got destroyed because of the harem, the r*pe scene, the boring plot of trying to rescue one of his girls, the dozens os wasted chapters in random guys trying to get mc's women.

Harem is bullshit, no one can love dozens of girls, it exists only to cure a man's deadly desire to have several women, it is even more ridiculous if they are strong and subject themselves to it.

 

it's simple, harems in novels make all the sense in the world because xianxia novels are literally about survival of the fittest and the biggest fist makes the rules and so forth. just like how everyone wants the best weapons, the best cultivation resources, the best techniques, people want the best partners and the MC is always going to be the best partner because he is the MC. plus if you consider the sheer amount of men dying in these novels compared to women then the man/women ratio should be like 100 women for every man. i mean most adventurers are men, most soldiers are men, most cannon fodder npc's are men, most bandits are men, most cultivators are men (unless it's an all girl sect, an there's always one) and these are the people who get killed by the hundreds and thousands. so yeah harems in these novels make all the sense in the world.

people hate harems because in western societies a harem is seen as bad and people use their own values to judge fictional works. there are many instances of it just being a shit novel with a harem or a poorly done harem but the main reason is because they just don't morally like them.