Wuxiaworld Official Response to Qidian's Libelous Claims

So, I can't seem to make a WuxiaWorld account so I can't post this there, but...
Ren, I have been lurking since coiling dragon was on book 2. But I have never made an account on any forum or website, or commented on anything, until a couple months ago when I made a novelupdates account, then lost the information for it. So I found the information today to say, that This issue could pull me out of the deep abyss of laziness in order to tell you, that your wish is my command. I have never donated, because I couldn't, but you have my full undying support and gratitude for the rest of my life.

 

So apparently, all has come to light here on this thread

http://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/qi-contract.37773/

and now we all understand why every single TLer and even Editor will never say anything bad about shitdan!

 

@JungleLucian - hmm seems I can't tag him now (there wasn't such a problem before) so he most likely just ignored me. As I can't mention your posts properly because of this forum settings (need 10 posts minimum to do so) I will reply in old fashioned way.

1. "Readers are charged very low price ($0.01 per chapter)." - it seems to get lower than before when you mentioned $0,02 per chapter. Funny how in attempt to push you agenda you chose to falsify data in order to show how "good" Qidian is.

2. "But if they go with a paywall similar to the one in China. It probably work too since there are readers out there who will support the authors. " - Well I'm one of big spenders and as I already said I would not support anyone working already for Qidian or moving to Qidian as my personal response to pathetic tactics of Qidian. It include not supporting any of their authors - you reap what you sow.

3. "It's a fairly common business tactic to use your bargaining power to force down the price. Qidian bargaining power is that they own the copyrights and there is the potential of cease and desist. Qidian is using both the carrot and stick in order to get the top translators to translate for them." - I'm an economist and a businessman by myself. As I mentioned in my previous post I'm from UK thus I'm rather informed about law here. So let me tell you something - things which are legal in China can be illegal anywhere else. What Qidian done is pure balant threat and bullying in order to get their way. No I'm not saying about issue with copyrights - law is on their side on this one and I won't try to argue with facts. Companies can't bully anyone in western countries - maybe it's a "business tactic" in China but here it would end in lawsuit against you - same as it goes with United Airlines. They had right by law to force out their passenger but because of the way they done it in the end they paid undisclosed amount to the very same customer when case end up in court. It's not China anymore.


4. "Since both sides can't come to an agreement. I guess the translators will have to stop and find a none-Qidian novel to translate." - so what? There are millions of good books around the world and thinking big spenders will now support company and anyone working for company acting in such a way is simply daydreaming.


5. "The very popular translators are earning a lot on Patreon. Qidian is letting the translators keep the money." - Qidian don't have any right to claim even a cent from Patreon.. People don't pay for Qidian novels but for translation thus any single dollar is earned by translators. By default even when Qidian will try to sue translators they won't get a cent from those money because it's a labour fee.

6. "If the translators drop TMW and MW, it will be a blow to their fans and Patreon." - Blow to their fans? No - blow to the Qidian because we as a community understand why translators can't keep working on this very novel. As for Patreon and supporting translators - well many people (including me) will support them and send them money even when the only thing they would translate at this very moment is a label on Domestos or instruction how to prepare tacos. Anyway sooner or later they would pick up another good novel and because of sticking to community they would earn even more. Every single translator is a brand by itself - their value is increasing or decreasing in time depending on their own actions. If they would make jump on money do you think people will send the same amount out of goodwill as they do now? Why should I pay anything extra when there would be a paywall?

7. "It will be a blow to Qidian too since Qidian has to start from scratch and find translators , which might not be anywhere near good enough as CKTalon, HyorinMaru" - to be more precise it would be blow only for Qidian. You need to notice one thing - the biggest spenders and supporters are adults and most of them hate Qidian now because of their approach. Why should I pay and support such a greedy company which is throwing own weight around and issuing threats to translators thus bullying their potential workers? Where is any work ethic in it?


8. "Without Qidian novels, would the translators be earning as much money?" - Well yes, because we support translators and their work. Sooner or later they would pick another novels as good or even better than the one Qidian make them drop. Sorry but it isn't China anymore - it's international market - there are millions of authors around the world which ain't under such a greedy company.

9. "Both side are now in a give and take. For example, what's wrong with hyorinmaru taking Qidian offer of $40 per chapter (or more) on top of $4569 a month from Patreon? Hyorinmaru will earn less from that $40 per chapter but Qidian/authors will earn more since they are paying less for translation." - You can't comprehend one thing - we want to support translators and authors for their labour. Personally before all this ruckus started I wouldn't mind to let Qidian earn their share. Now because of the way they act I wouldn't give them a single pence. So take one of big spenders out. One more thing - do you think translators moving to Qidian banner now and betraying community would earn the same money from Patreon as now? It's not how it works - support from translators is about mutual understanding and sharing the same principles - they are doing it for community and I want to empower the very same community by donating them money in order to keep chapters coming.


10. "If everyone is on the translators side, what about the authors?" - Well I can speak for myself only - I have been donating directly to authors as well but now because of Qidian action I wouldn't do it anymore. Not because I don't want to support authors but because I don't want Qidian to get even a single pence out of my money. As for now I would talk with my lawyer soon about the ways to support authors directly without Qidian having any way to take even 0,00000000001% of money I'm donating. If there wouldn't be any way to do so - so be it. It isn't fair towards authors but it's a response to the way how company they work for act on international stage.

11. "$60 per chapter? + Patreon money $70 per chapter? + Patreon money If Qidian is paying twice as much for some translators, what will they do when other translators ask for a pay raise? Every dollar that Qidian/author pay to the translator mean one less dollar for Qidian/Author.
Qidian gets 50% of foreign rights. Author gets 50% Translators make more. Authors/Qidian makes less. I hope both side come to the right balance." - because you are saying things like that I'm pretty sure there is some correlation between you and Qidian. If you would be really part of this community you would know the issue here isn't money but how Qidian are acting like 5y old kids lying, insulting and sending threats towards translators.

12. "Dropping novels like TMW, MW and starting from scratch would be a EPIC FAIL on both sides." - no, because community understand you don't sign a pact with devil. Qidian pathetic "business tactice" backfired big time and since it reached such point I wouldn't support anyone working with or for Qidian directly. So sign out one of big spenders you tend to mention when you talk about Patreon and donations.

13. "$40 per chapter from Qidian x 5 chapters a week x 4 weeks a month = $800 for the translation of the 20 chapters.With Patreon, you can make $2000-$4000 a month." As you want to talk about translating as full time work let me tell you something - translators are fans of novels and are doing it for community. As I already proved in my previous post if they wanted to work fulltime as a professional translators they would make double, triple the amount you are mentioning depending on how much work they would get as a translator.

14. "If you say a pay wall won't help the authors, then would FREE help them?" - You know people have been supporting authors directly or by any means sending donations, buying novels at chinese sites even when they don't know this language etc? So now this support will end because of Qidian actions. So where are benefits for authors now?


15. "What do you think of this business model for Qidian" - before we will even start to look at any possibility to read anything provided by Qidian they should do a few things. Apologise to community, wuxiaworld, readers and authors for what they done. Keep your word and let wuxiaworld finish all novels already translated on their site. Try to work for community not solely for profit. As it is now they simply don't have any standing on international market and aggressive manner by @Qidian will just kill this very market they wanted to monopolize. As a big donator I can tell one thing - I support translators because I want to, because they work for community and because there is mutual interest in developing our community. To be it more funny I'm reading all novels they want to take over. If they think I would move over to their site and pay them because they want it not because I want it they are just delusional. Trying to pull any emotional strings like "poor authors, look - translator joined our company you should follow them, novels will be translated on our site" etc won't work. I'm standing on side of developing our community and you @Qidian have been proven to look only at money and numbers. If I would need to drop every single novel I'm reading now - so be it. I wouldn't die nor I would cry because of it. I'm addicted to reading be it normal books, novels, manga, manhua and list goes on. It doesn't mean I would chose to destroy something @rwxwuxiaworld have been creating over the years for mere pleasure of reading few good novels. To be honest you lose potential customer even before you started. I know how CEO's of such companies are thinking and know how important is profit for companies - well being an economist is helping with it - so just pass this message to higher staff @Qidian - western customers are loyal to brands. As for now Qidian isn't a brand and looks like a mere behemoth trying to monopolize market by force without reason. Being a business doesn't justify your actions and if you want to enter international market you should consider getting some good public relation employee who is from western country.


To summarize everything and add a lil bit at the end - after reading an official contract written by Qidian to be used in dealing with translators I can say one thing - @Qidian you are done for now. Not any sane translator will sign such a document and become your slave. Now I understand why @rwxwuxiaworld doesn't have a mercy at all. I wouldn't read any of your novels now even if you pay me for it.

 

@Its Michael I truly and wholeheartedly applaud you my friend *clap clap clap* *bow down*

 

Yea and apparently the clause which says that they can never say anything bad about Qidian lasts forever

 

The sad part of all this is that some translators actually signed that slave contract

 

@Its Michael
Bravo, dude! Bravo!

 

I wanted to add my opinion in this thread also as I want more people to see this. I think this was the main reason this fiasco started in the first place and it seems to be backed by what @Its Michael wrote.
"This thing started because the more of the popular novels went to WW instead to them... the thing is QI seems to misunderstand why novels become popular in the first place. People can quote me on this, because this is the main reason a novel becomes popular: Steady releases, free chapters from time to time, quality and guarantee for finishing the started novels.
If you look at what the lucian guy said for the most well paid translators, you will see they are the major guys who have translated 600-700+ chapters.... for example:
Desolate Era - RWX - The only solo translator to ever finish a novel from start to end !! People are paying him not only for the novel itself but quality and assurance also
BTTH - GGP the founder of gravity and another 750+ chapters translated + Zhan Long ( Btw I started with Zhan Long)
Martial God Asura - started by the incredible Flowerbridgetoo, who translated the fastest 1000 chapters ever.
They are afraid that no other novels can be as popular as the already half finished ones, which is stupidity beyond belief...

My Point is that a novel is not popular just because of the story(there are better novels out there), the quality and speed of translation is what separate the popular novels and the less popular ones. " - quoted from the other thread.

 

What if they curse qidian in their dreams?

 

1. "Readers are charged very low price ($0.01 per chapter)."

They charge per 100.000 WORDS. Now for example , 3092 Chinese words GDW chapter 564 after translated is 9554 English words.

 

i'd love to see that clause work in the USA under the 1st amendment of freedom of speech,
have they mistakenly just cut and pasted their chinese contact into the post
or will they add that clause in for readers as well when you sign up to use the site

 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they did add that clause in for the readers as well lol

 

Freedom of speech limits what government to can do and what laws the government can make. People mistakenly believe that it applies to all speech everywhere. It does not.

However, with that being said.. Does Qidian even have a copyright case they can make in the US? Do they have copyrights? Did they file them before or after translations started? What would the case look like?

 

cheers for cleaning that up a bit as i only know that facts of that from news and other things as not based in the usa only have family there,
but you do bring a good point into it about the copy right

 

There's a reason why NDAs can work is because you can get sued for talking about things.. Unless it is criminal in nature or something that will be bad for the public.. Then it becomes whistle blowing or leaking. So "free speech" is only really free in your own home lol.

 

I already asked Parth about it last night. He said NU don't link to that content. That's all.

 

Is there anything we, the supporters of WuxiaWorld, can do besides boycotting Qidian. Maybe a petition? I don't know, just want to find some way to help.

 

I actually think there is not a very good way to Wxw to win. From what I learn yesterday in these forums Wxw is trying to translate and survive on Patron than keeping novels free to read that they finish translating. I do not think that is very viable for business and can see why Qidian might be going paywall but I think its way too early to charge for novels there is not enough supply for the demand. Like I mention before they should wait till they have at least 100 half translated or finish novels to start with.

The best course I think Wxw can do right now is strike better deals with other Chinese webnovel sites and show them that Wxw can make them money so that Qidian regrets the way they handled Wxw. Wxw will probably lose QIdian novels outside of the 20 novels that were in the written contract. This is just a guess though since I have no clue of the paperwork or digital evidence on that oral agreement that ren is talking about.

 

Crowdfunding is actually becoming a fairly viable form of profit these days, so i dont think thats a strong argument.

A paywall doesnt phase me, but they have s***all novels so yeah, no way jose.

I doubt wuxiaworld will lose as hard as your belief. Oral contracts amuse me. :3