Wuxiaworld's Formal Response (With Screenshots)

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by rwxwuxiaworld, Jul 26, 2017.

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  1. Parth37955

    Parth37955 NU #3, [Absent Mod], Mid-Boss, Dark Dealer Staff Member

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    ...qidian doesn't have the right to stop translations. WW purchased the right to publish. The contract was never annulled and should still be in effect. Where was it ever said that the contract was annulled?

    In addition, it's currently under contention whether qidian does have the right to dual host or not. Qidian claims it can, WW says they cannot.
     
  2. kineticblast

    kineticblast Very Unprofessional Farmer

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    They said that they wanted WW world to stop all translations of the 20 qidian novels. Neither parties released the full agreement but in their response. They said WW world broke a contract and they were going to stop the agreement in their licensing issues thread. They said they would like the 20 novels brought over to them.

    What Qidian has a right over is the untranslated versions of their books. They also have a right to distribute translated versions. They don't have a right to take translated versions, but they can stop the distribute of translations. Wuxiaworld lost their authorization a long time ago, they do not currently have the right to publish all their qidian novels. They are currently rogue until qidian international forces the translations to stop in court.
     
  3. DaoFox

    DaoFox 『Silkmaid』『Ishhara's Devotee』『Firstborn』『Daoist』

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    its amusing how you took QI's word as basis for making your decision. perhaps you missed the part about the co-hosting agreement being a complete fabrication to justify QI's recent illegal acquisition of WW translators translations. something that by international law is illegal.

    facts:

    1. QI sold the english publication rights to the 20 novels to WW and via a verbal/oral agreement allowed for the following 11 novels to be picked up by WW. QI has no claim to those series at all in the english language.
    2. QI failed to finance WW and as a result decided to one sidedly pull out of their oral agreements. because their initial plans to "back all the large translation sites and then absorb them" fell flat.
    3. QI forcefully took translations that were not theirs to take which is illegal under international law. claiming to have acquired them from WW who is legally unable to sell what it does not own. (QI really fucked up with understanding this part of WW's contracts)
    4. WW is based in Hong Kong, not china. Same for QI i believe. the law here differs from mainland china. the very reason Ren chose to set up in HK and not China or further afield like USA.
    5. QI has never had the intentions of doing their own translations or starting a popular series from scratch because there is no profit to be made in doing so.
    6. WW hosts novels from more than just QI, they have successful agreements in place with 17k and zongheng. and have been around longer than QI. if anyone is going to back down and leave it is QI.
    7. the series QI demanded WW to remove were the 11 contested additions, not the original 20 licenses. Instead they just stole the licensed 20 and copied them to their site illegally.
    8. Having rights to the untranslated novels holds NO SAY over the translated derivatives. these belong to the translators who did the translations.

    now, if you are done advocating for QI. please kindly piss off. you seem to think that your comment holds the only truth and must be taken as gospel and yet you are sorely lacking in factual foundations.

    people who try to speak as if Qidian International is the "future" of the CN industry are not all that popular right now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  4. Hahhaa

    Hahhaa hereby irrevocably & perpetually waives all moral

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    Please read the 1st post. Let me quote for you,
     
  5. Logicsol

    Logicsol Proud owner of a Toyota Lernlaw

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    What? no they didn't.
    They did not claim WW broke their agreement.

    Also, if they did, they'd have litterally zero claim to those 20 novel translations, as they are claiming that said agreement is what granted that right in the first place.

    Therefore, no agreement = no right to those translations.

    Correct

    Inccorrect.

    They are perfectly justified in publishing the 20 directly authorized novels, as they have the rights to them. Again, QI can not claim that the agreement grants them the right to dual-host while claiming the agreement is void. It doesn't worked that way.

    Even the 11 indirectly authorized novels can be argued for under the verbal agreement.

    The agreement needs to be legally recognized as void before QI can actually force WW to stop.
     
  6. kineticblast

    kineticblast Very Unprofessional Farmer

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    Don't get me wrong I am no fan of QI. Wuxiaworld has been providing a higher quality service for a longer time without all the bullshit. It was built with Ren and his teams hardwork. If there is anyone I trust to be transparent with us it would be Ren. The whole chinese translation scene is based on Ren organizing everything.

    I was doing an argument based on Qidian international telling the truth about the dual hosting. Which is very unlikely to be true given Ren's post. But even if it were true, that agreement was annulled by qidian. Both wuxiaworld and qidian are going to court because that agreement no longer holds. So Qidian is trying to force wuxiaworld to stop translations and take all the translations.

    Legally they have a right to stop the distribution of translations, meaning you can keep the car but you can't manufacture more or sell the car. That is what they are allowed to do and though I want to read more of WMW for example. Qidian has the right to stop it. Hopefully by the time the court proceedings are over OMA will finish it. With his release speed that is a very unlikely concern.

    Now the whether or not the contract has completely fallen apart, its obvious based on their adversarial relationship currently. Both sides are going to court over breaches of the contract. No one really cares about upholding their supposed end. Since Qidian is talking about pulling out of the contract, then wuxiaworld doesn't have to uphold the dual hosting assuming it were true.

    I did indeed get the 20 wrong, but in the statement after that they decided to bring everything to court to remove all 31 novels. Authorized or unauthorized they attempted to bring all of them to QI. I also agree that having the rights to the original doesn't allow control over the translations. It controls the distribution of translations, as qidian also owns the right to those. Not even the author gets to distribute translations, only china reading does. You can check the contract qidian gives to its authors if you'd like.

    I was illustrating who has the right to do what assuming what Qidian international said is true. Not saying that it were true, just worst case scenario, and even then qidian international is still pushing the line for profit. The truth of the matter is though wuxiaworld is the best now, qidian the original owner the most stable.

    Honestly, most qidian novels aren't worth the annoying pretentiousness. Just a few good ones that are better read on the patreon's of the translators and sometimes even on aggregators. The community attracted sharks, we'd best disperse and hope they'll leave for somewhere else.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  7. kineticblast

    kineticblast Very Unprofessional Farmer

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    Sorry but proving a verbal agreement in court would be hard, we'd be better off just sticking to contracts. I can't remember but I think Ren may have said that he couldn't release the agreement. But a company like qidian is slimy, they'll break their word at any moment. They claimed that wuxiaworld stole translators from gravity tales. Which violated their agreement and was a bad business move using their words. As for your last point that is what I agree with, they can start from the beginning doing the translation and be considered the legitimate distributor. But they can't just copy and paste all of ISSTH, fully translated by deathblade on qidian international, and serve a DMCA at the same time. They had already moved to void the agreement right from the beginning, they just want to get the cake and eat it too.
     
  8. zentetsuken

    zentetsuken Well-Known Member

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    QI claim the contract grant dual-hosting, WW claim the right to grant dual-host rest on TLs. So QI claims admit that WW own the right to grant dual-host. What I find very weird is QI email to WMW TL express intent to purchase rights....

    Isn't QI action contradict their own claims on dual host....
     
  9. kineticblast

    kineticblast Very Unprofessional Farmer

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    Qidian international is a giant contradiction of a humanized company. But there is no company in the world that is human, they are cold calculating money making machines. That only care about profit, they have no shame, nor do they care about their reputation when the money is worth it or if they are just that powerful.

    To them the international community is icing on the giant cake, it makes it taste better but there is still a lot of cake if the frosting isn't that great. Our complaints won't really do much, and wuxiaworld will keep being suppressed because of this. The best scenario honestly would be giving up qidian novels, and sticking to 17k which wuxiaworld and volare are doing right now.

    Just decide what is more important to you. Justice, fairness, and community. Or business, standardization, or the utter lack of community.
     
  10. DaoFox

    DaoFox 『Silkmaid』『Ishhara's Devotee』『Firstborn』『Daoist』

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    again you are wrong. QI cannot onesidedly annul the contract. the issue is going to court especially because the contract exists and is still in effect. QI is trying to argue that WW broke the contract terms. THEY NEVER SAID THE CONTRACT WAS ANULLED. you can break a contract but you cannot annul one!
    you are doing more than thinking on the basis of "what if the dual-hosting is real" you are working along the lines of "everything QI said is the truth and WW and the entire community are both liars and contract breakers."

    now lets point another problem with your assumption you shortsighted fool. WW is NOT holder of the translation rights, infact what WW owns is THE RIGHT TO PUBLISH, THE RIGHT TO LICENSE THEIR WORK. WW is an online portal with the legal permission to sell the english translations, it is the TRANSLATORS who have a minor contract with WW which everyone has seen. "nowhere in the WW contract does it state that the translators work becomes the property of WW" also "ww itself said it does not own the translations and as such it is impossible for QI to claim they have rights to them or that WW 'sold' it to them"

    seriously. remove that banner from your signature. you clearly don;t understand what it means to show support for a group. all you are doing is trying to throw mud over WW reputation.

    QI never claimed that WW "stole" translators from gravity. that isn't even something QI has the right to bitch about. people have their own choice as to where they want to go. QI did claim that WW's actions were "poaching" translators, HOWEVER this was even denied by gravity tales and all the translators in question. additionally, QI holds no stock in WW, so it cannot dictates the terms in which the site itself functions.

    are you seriously using your brain or just coming here to spout lots of bullshit? you keep saying "we should disperse and hope they leave" very well, since you want to do it so much why not leave? go on, piss off >.> the rest of the community will simply continue to go on their daily practices and will continue to watch as events unfold.

    when it comes to the crux of the matter, there is not a single person here who actually puts your words to any sort of importance. so why not stop talking on this matter?

    facts+ :

    1. QI has contracts with their AUTHORS that says QI owns the right to decide what to do in regards to publishing. this same detail is useless when compared to WW because it signed no such contract. WW is not one of QI's authors and is not subjective to terms in their other contracts. WW is a platform trading on equal grounds as QI to PURCHASE rights. NOT SHARE A STORY.
    2. QI sold the rights to the very translation, that means they forfeit any control they have. QI can still distribute translations in any other language in the world, however they sold away their right to the english version. there is NOTHING QI can do in regards to these translations. to do anything would be to either break their contractual agreements or to break the international law as a whole.
    3. oral agreements are just as valid in court as written agreements and as such, unless QI offers some terms to apologise and remunerate WW, there is little chance to see QI win on these grounds in any international court except inside china itself.
    4. If you sell me a gun, once you get the cash you have no say over what I do with it. you cannot demand to share it on certain days and you cannot tell me what i can or cannot use it for. if I break the law with it then only the official authorities have the right to arrest me. that gun may be taken by the authorities but it certainly does not get returned to the person who sold me that gun. the same is going on here with the english translations. QI wants to make money from selling the rights, but then also want to still have the rights too. YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT.
    5. WW has continued to uphold their end of the contract, QI broke their's claiming WW has broken it first, but to date WW has not yet broken either the terms of their contract nor have they broken the NDA terms that make it illegal to reveal the specific details. WW has already announced that the grounds which QI is contesting is the "interpretation of certain clauses and word usage".Breaking the NDA seems to be QI's favourite move at the moment regardless of whether what they say is true or not.
    6. Even QI realises it fucked up and burned a bridge it cannot get back. just go and see Gravity tales announcement on the matter of their gaining licenses. notice how the terms Gravity got don't seem too different from WW? notice how it has been announced that translators continue to have the right to decide where their translations go? what about 6months from now, will we see a repeat because they would rather own the whole cake instead of admitting the best they can do is share? will we end up seeing even gravity licenses being ripped onto QI and QI claiming gravity broke the terms?

    Seriously Kinetic, you are talking but so much crap is coming out that I don't think even you know where it comes from anymore. I don't know if you have gotten a higher education yet or if you were educated at all, but I suggest you find a way to learn. My brother is a training lawyer, you seriously think I cannot get much more credible information regarding how the law works than you?
     
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  11. Kylarin

    Kylarin Prinny

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    I dearly hope that a repeat will not happen with Gravity. It was my first thought when I saw that announcement.
    The court case with WW will probably determine how QI reacts in regards to other contracts, if they can get away with it this time, they'll probably try again. They'll have a previous court case to back them up, making it even easier. If they lose, it'll be harder to pull this move in the future, probably making them a tad more cautious than they are right now.

    Edit: It'll also spare us a lot of DRAMA ... tho people that enjoy drama might cry.
     
  12. DaoFox

    DaoFox 『Silkmaid』『Ishhara's Devotee』『Firstborn』『Daoist』

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    there is still a thread supposing that GGP of GT was trying to sell the site and force legal measures on translators that led to most of them leaving. All I can really say right now is that regardless of where the truth lies there, GT is clearly much closer to QI at the moment as compared to any other translator groups. That said, as long as they are not absorbed by QI i will continue to read the series I follow on their site.

    Indeed, In law it's setting precedent. If something happens once it becomes the arguing basis for judgement regarding practically all future occurrences of it. so whatever end is reached will determine whether QI thinks it can absorb the entire CN community or if it is forced to sit back and watch themselves only holding onto a scant few of their own series translations.

    As things stand currently, I can soundly say that the community just wishes that QI would shut up with all its slanderous announcements and would focus on reaching a conclusion acceptable to both sides. It is upsetting that it has had to come to court.
     
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  13. podlizurko

    podlizurko Well-Known Member

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    I found it extremely funny how he made a statement that he assumes QI is in the right , yet he says in the continuation of those statements that QI is wrong.
     
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  14. Suijin

    Suijin Blood God [Medic]

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    ww is evil! praise qidian, the kind god from china!
     
  15. Kylarin

    Kylarin Prinny

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    Oh boy, here we go...
    :blobpopcorn::blobpopcorn::blobpopcorn::blobpopcorn::blobpopcorn::blobpopcorn:
     
  16. Suijin

    Suijin Blood God [Medic]

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    stalker?
     
  17. TheOnlyRavenbrand

    TheOnlyRavenbrand Death Knight - WW Supporter

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    Going to stop your right there.. Yes in fact they can and oral agreements get much more credit when you have a previous contract with the person or entity that you have a contract with. Ren says he has it in writing. Now an oral agreement says it can be spoken or partially written (which is what Ren is talking about.. Partially written here) as Ren has been talking about a framework not necessarily details of such so there is no specifics on the 11 novels in a contract but the oral agreement (partially written framework) is a contract.
     
  18. Rinchan

    Rinchan Active Member

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    I gotta say, woah there. Calm down boy, no need to throw personal insults.

    Beyond that...

    Just gotta add my two cents here. For the record, I support WW over QI, but gotta be realistic :(

    Since we haven't and likely never will see the contract, we don't really know what is truth and what isn't, and while I wholeheartedly believe in Ren and what little he has told us of the legal situation, his words alone don't make it fact. Since we don't know anything beyond what QI has done, all we can really say is fact, is that QI is flexing their muscle, and that its morally wrong, but not much else.

    .

    Anyways, here are the cold hard facts, as counters to your statements.

    Verbal agreements, while legally a thing, has always been weak in court especially when there's a lack of proof. And there are tons of ways that QI can twist it in their favor. (For example, depending on the language that the deals were made in, and who made the deals, I can totally see QI claiming they did not mean such a thing, and that WW's 'poor' Mandarin or whatever dialect caused them to misunderstand what was being said. Might not actually slide, but things like this are definitely going to occur since it's not a part of the written contract.) Honestly, this part has always been likely to go in QI's favor.

    For dual hosting and claiming WW broke some part of the contract, no one can know if WW actually did break their contract, but I find it difficult to believe that WW would actually try to sneakily break the contract, since they're the ones with everything to lose.

    But WW's contract itself... idk.
    From what I can remember, at least in the US copyright law, translating something does NOT constitute enough a change for you to publish it online. It is not WW's intellectual property. As such I believe that a valid claim could be made, according to US law at least, that selling the rights to the translation itself is invalid because that part of the contract would be in violation of US federal law. So who knows whether the entire contract itself may be annulled. But I can't and won't say anything definite regarding this since J don't know which set of laws with which the court will work with.

    Regarding publishing rights, WW should be mostly in the clear. Mainly because publishing rights, (not rights to the property itself, but distribution) are pretty clear. However, depending on the wording of the contract (which, again, no one has and never will see), there might be some leeway for QI to work in something. Who knows what.

    ...
    Anyways. I just wrote this cuz I was bored while pooping and god I've been sitting on the toilet for a while... and please stop insulting people. There's no reason to stoop that low. Plenty of room to have civil discussion. (Not that i read any of the previous pages... hahaha....)
     
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  19. Kaiser Megami

    Kaiser Megami Well-Known Member

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    It funny how the moment a post against QI started, some people replies are getting popcorn and saying " oh shit another QI threads" are all fucking bastards. How do you not give a shit about what QI been doing to your favorite novels and more. I am going to ignore all these bullshit replies and going to assume that they are all fucking 50 cent army trying to undermine the post by the author..
     
  20. kaisersose

    kaisersose Well-Known Member

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    It's the popcorn army sire :blobpopcorn:
     
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