When you say a lot, don't go anywhere, but end up leaving something anyways.

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AliceShiki

『Ms. Tree』『Magical Girl of Love and Justice』, Female
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If the title seems weird, it's because I'm talking about something weird... You know those times when you hear someone talk talk talk talk and talk, yet the conversation doesn't go anywhere? I'm talking about those times, but specifically about a very rare kind of thing that sometimes happens on those conversations... I'm talking about those times that after the conversation ends and you think... "Wow, what a waste of time", you end up thinking on the conversation again later on, and end up discovering there were some nice things that were said in the conversation... Even if they were totally unrelated to the actual goal of the talk.

Talking about talks, let me link what I'm talking about, it's a Ted Talk from Chen Lizra I watched recently:



So... Lizra there is talking about how seduction can be used in our everyday life, and how seduction is so sexualized nowadays, that we can't even consider it as a positive skill that might actually help us out... It was an interesting topic to say the least. I mean... When we talk about someone using seduction to go up in life, we generally just think about someone sleeping with their boss to get a promotion or something, so it's not exactly a positive thing... Rethinking that idea could be interesting.

Then she goes on and starts talking about her experiences in Cuba, over how men there frequently try to seduce women on the streets, how they're bold and not afraid of failure, how they have a high self-esteem and a strong self-image in order to get the courage to try it and to keep trying in case it goes wrong, how they have faith in their own intuition and are willing to read between the lines over the "no" they get from a woman, to understand if that no means "no", or if it means a "maybe" that might become a "yes". She also talks over how those women that are flirted with feel empowered and enjoy the boost in morale they get from a man shouting that they're beautiful or gorgeous in the street...

She says a lot of things no doubt, but... What does all of that have to do with using seduction in our everyday lives? Rather, isn't all of that related to seduction in a sexual manner? So... Isn't she going against her very premise by talking about all that? The talk seemed pretty crazy and kinda nonsensical to me...

And I wasn't the only one thinking that, if you look at the comments of the video you'll see plenty of people were lost with what was her point in the first place... You'll also see some people outraged at some things she said and that they completely disagree with her.

... And that kinda got me to think about those things, like... What does seduction does that can empower us in our everyday lives? Uhn... Nothing that I can think of that agrees with my ethics.

But on the other hand, what would I need to have in order to be willing to seduce someone, and would those things be useful for me in my everyday life? Well, I'd need self-confidence, I'd need a strong self-image, I'd need to be willing to do things without being afraid of failure, I'd need a good intuition, I'd need to read between the lines of what people say, and I'd need to see the good things in what others do even when they might originally look like bad things... Yeah, those sounds like awesome skills for my everyday life. That's a good message that she gave in that video.

... Only, she didn't pass that message, she mentioned those things, but she didn't tie them all together... This conclusion is something I came to by myself and by reading some discussions in the comments... So uhn... It feels like she went nowhere, but ended up leaving something good somehow?


But enough about the video, you can watch it yourself if you want more details. Let's talk about those comments instead since they're the whole reason I am making this blog post anyways. I specifically want to talk about 2 comment chains that I found.

The first was talking about how the commenter (a girl) was outraged over the message of a "no, that means maybe, and can become a yes", because No means No, and it's definitely not alright to continue going after someone when they already rejected you.

But uhn... Lizra said that they have good intuition and that they know how to understand rather they're dealing with a no that means no and a no that means maybe and can become a yes? There is a really big difference between those 2.

At the same time you might be thinking that there isn't any no that doesn't mean no, I mean... If you don't mean no, why would you say no anyways? Well... It's complicated.

Using my personal story as an example, I rejected my ex multiple times before we started dating... Why? Because I was scared. I was scared of another online relationship after my last one, I was scared of getting involved too deeply into something again, and then getting hurt in case it didn't work out... And also scared of hurting my partner in the process, I wasn't ready for another relationship, I didn't think I was emotionally stable to date someone again.

Was I against dating them though? Not really, they were a friend I was close to and that I enjoyed the company... I wasn't against it, I just... Didn't want to do it either, I was scared. So I kept rejecting them... I rejected with a no, that meant a maybe, and that became a yes.

They broke up with me after some 8 months, but that was that and this was this, so... That's my story, are other people that give a no that doesn't mean no the same? Hell if I know, I'd have to talk directly to them to know, each person is different after all... Still, there is a point in it, not all "no"s mean no... And if you always accept a no as a no, you might never get to date someone that might have actually be willing to turn that no into a yes with due time...

But at the same time, you really need to know how to respect a no that truly means a no... It's really something that depends on intuition I guess... I wonder if it's possible to train that... Well, enough of this topic, let's jump to the next one.


Ever had someone out there in the street just shout to you how gorgeous you are? Well, probably not if you're a man, but I'm sure some of the women on NUF went through that at least once... How did you feel? Good? Empowered? Bad? Harassed?

Well, as someone that never went through the experience, I can only imagine how I'd react... I'd probably feel really embarrassed and wanting to hide in a hole or want to leave the place as soon as possible... And at the same time I'd probably feel really happy that someone out there thinks I'm beautiful enough to call me out on the streets.

Why? Because I'm ugly as fuck, dear God. I once had the opposite happen to me actually, a guy was passing by the street in a van and just shouted to me "You're looking horrible, you know that?" I was flabbergasted, like... I had been walking for 2 hours at that point, I was dead tired, it was hot, my legs were aching, I was almost getting home and couldn't wait to lay down on my bed and relax... And what I got instead was someone calling me horrible right there to my face? Like, sure, I know I'm ugly, but I don't need you to tell me that, I already do that everyday in front of the mirror, alright?

I honestly dealt with it kinda well tbh, like... It kept in my head and I was truly astonished, but... At the same time, I kinda came to accept that I'm super ugly and am slowly working on changing that, but it will take time... Still, it really surprised me that I was openly harassed in the streets like that, it never happened to me before, and hopefully won't happen again.

So... When I see someone in the comments of a video saying that being called beautiful or gorgeous in the streets by random people is harassment... I end up getting a really weird feeling, like... Being praised is harassment? What about me that was openly insulted? What is that then? Are they both just different kinds of harassment and at different levels? How does that even work?

It just made me start think about it... How does one feel about themselves to feel like being openly praised is actually harassment? Are they just so comfortable with their appearance that this praise doesn't matter for their self-esteem and instead only annoys them? Are they actually worried about the way the person shouting it is saying it? As if they were saying "You're so hot I'd fuck you if I could" or something? And uhn... Even if it was using this kind of foul language, isn't it still praise nonetheless? Can you really consider praise as harassment? I dunno.

On the other hand, I remember when I was smaller, a friend of mine was visiting my home and my mom started bragging to him about how smart I was and uhn... I think she was also saying about how much of a waste was for me to choose history as my university or not. In any case, not only was I totally wanting to dig a hole and run away from the situation, but my friend was also super troubled and didn't know how to react... Funnily enough, that friend was not only a lot smarter than me, but he was actually on the top of our grade since middle school all the way until the end of High School and he was doing way better in engineering university than I was doing at history... And uhn... At least over here, Engineering is WAY harder to do well on than it is to do well in history.

So uhn... Suffice to say I felt like my mom was an idiot that was praising my intelligence to someone much smaller than me, while I also felt like I have always been kinda dumb... It felt like a really vain and pointless praise that didn't mean anything and was just embarrassing me in front of my friend.

... Is that how the people that feel harassed by praise in the streets feel? Like they're receiving vain complaints that they themselves don't agree with? That is honestly a sad line of thought that I hope it isn't true... I mean, when even randoms in the street tell you you're beautiful, you'd better start believing it and start working on your self-esteem instead of wallowing because you're not as beautiful as Photoshoped Model A that you saw in a magazine.

Kinda funny that I'm telling people they should think they're beautiful when I'm very aware I'm pretty ugly... Oh, the hypocrisy... Welp, guess it's harder to change our own self-image than it is to try pushing others to change theirs... At least I'm working on mine~


Phew, feels like I talked a lot this time... Did I get anywhere? I dunno, I just had a bunch of thoughts on this video and honestly considered splitting this into 3 blog posts, but figured I'd just make one long one and throw it all together, hopefully it was an interesting read at least~

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Comments

    1. AliceShiki Aug 1, 2019
      @Arcturus I agree! We're complex people in complex cultures and different people and cultures deal with different things in different manners, it's hard to generalize what something means just based on our own perspective of it~
    2. Arcturus Jul 30, 2019
      Hmmm. I think it really depends upon what culture you are part of. Different cultures have different sorts of dynamics in their interactions amongst potential sexual/romantic partners. It's this really that informs these interactions and whether the interpretation of them is good or bad. Many cultures have relatively different standards of beauty which also informs these interactions. It's why many hard rules such as "no means no" are extremely problematic. While better than than devaluing no altogether, it is by no means ideal.
      AliceShiki likes this.
    3. SummerForest Jul 30, 2019
      @Femme Fatale, true, the whole point of seduction is to arouse the target (of the opposite sex, in general). It's taking a huge risk, too. I've seen women seducing men and then failing to handle the aftermath.
      On a serious note, there's nothing good about seduction. It should be avoided altogether.
      My personal revenge related to a matter of an injustice regarding my sudden transfer order. The person who had a hand in it preferred some seductress over normies like us and I just had to downgrade him in some way. Although I didn't go further than throwing one glance at him. That was enough XD.
      hitedo and Femme Fatale like this.
    4. Femme Fatale Jul 30, 2019
      @SummerForest I've seen that too, I just don't think I could do that. I try not to judge, but I don't think it would make me happy so I can't see how that can make others happy. *shrugs*

      Sometimes people think seduction is sex...which it isn't, but inevitably seduction will bring up the sex question. I just avoid it all together unless I'm in for the kill. ^.^
      hitedo, AliceShiki and SummerForest like this.
    5. SummerForest Jul 30, 2019
      @Femme Fatale, yes, seduction should be left for those who can play that card well. A seductress is generally disliked by other women and that's a price they have to pay.
      Using seduction to advance in careers or to get your job done doesn't sound morally good, but I've seen women taking career as war and using every weapon in their arsenal, including their ability to seduce.
      hitedo and Femme Fatale like this.
    6. Femme Fatale Jul 30, 2019
      @SummerForest For a moment I thought you quoted me because of the title of the blog, since today I've written lots of long winded responses. *Lols*

      I don't use seduction as a way to communicate, but culturally Puerto Ricans are flirts as a minimum. ^.^ We flirt outrageously with each other which makes us misunderstood by less expressive cultures. So I'm a flirt and that's fine so long as I'm not promising anything sexual. A little bit of flirting helps the day go past and ads a bit of zing to everyone's day. ^.^ It's the difference between a smile and a smile/wink combo.

      Now....when people confuse flirting with seduction, I back off. Seduction, to me, should only be done with people I'm gonna seal the deal with, or plan on sealing the deal....then I flirt and seduce relentlessly. Not a guy I've dated has ever misunderstood and it keeps them interested. ^.^

      When I work though, I don't flirt. I'm friendly but I also keep a bit of a gap for the Holy Spirit if you know what I mean. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: If a co-worker and I have a flirting understanding then that's okay too. If the other person is Puerto Rican too well....it's all fun and games. ^.^
      hitedo, AliceShiki and SummerForest like this.
    7. SummerForest Jul 30, 2019
      Seduction mostly involves your way of talking, looking at a person and carrying yourself in front of them. A seductress needs to be charming, but unapproachable in a subtle way. Imo every girl can seduce if they really want to.
      What do you say, @Femme Fatale?
      hitedo and Femme Fatale like this.
    8. AliceShiki Jul 30, 2019
      @SummerForest Well, I'm just saying that if my ex took my no as a no, I'd have never dated and become closer to one of the best people I have ever met in my entire life and that helped me a lot when going through some really rough times... So uhn... Well, I understand the concept of No means No and I agree with it... But my own experience of having my No ignored gave me so many benefits, that I can't really agree with people always accepting it for what it is...

      Mmmmmm, well, I don't remember ever being praised by strangers, so I don't think I really understand it... I do have a hard time accepting praise from people I'm close to though, mainly because I have a pretty bad self-image though... >.>

      And uhn... That's a weird way of using seduction, but good job! I'm totally clueless about seduction myself to be perfectly honest, I'd probably be at a complete loss if I ever were to try courting someone~
      hitedo and SummerForest like this.