A new group, hands already covered with dirt and blood (Drama Alert)

At this point, I feel like we're speculating things solely based on the private chat logs.
What about the chat logs from the discord server?
Shouldn't there be like a discord server for staff members or something?
I feel like we're missing some crucial information from both side to really make a good judgement on what happened.
While private chat logs shows us the conversation between two groups, it doesn't show how the work was done.
So, until there is more information provided, I would probably stay neutral on this topic.

 

I really want to stop helping Neria’s side but you are supporting your argument with inaccurate information.

KCDS did NOT provide support that Neria asked for. He only provided support in the form of proofreading from himself and an editor’s discord. What Neria requested was an actual team to assist him. Not one person. A team. Plural. It is true that Neria did not communicate properly that he could not handle the workload, but this is unrelated to the fact that his initial request was never met.Both chat logs and my TLDRs clearly state this.

The rest you have said I won’t comment because it is your opinion and assumption from your own understanding, and cannot be proven beyond doubt whether correct or wrong due to lack of information.

 

The

there won’t be any. WS already made things clear that the only thing they will do is post their side of the story. Neria will not be making any statement on this. Staff logs on WS side is also confidential for them to reveal.

 

That's unfortunate.

 

See, from what I am seeing, there was a lack of support.
Be that as it may, I still maintain that this should have been kept out of public and hashed out privately. All it did is make KCDS look petty and torpedoing a newly formed group that does not have the same presence or longevity that they have enjoyed.

This could have been avoided if they stuck with NU rules. Basically, since KCDS is the one that introduced the novel to Neria, and in that sense hiring them to translate, then fine, it makes sense that 100WS and them to take it down from their site, which they have.
This then means KCDS has that 3 month window, to find a new translator, and keep going at it for all they care.
Obviously, KCDS does not really care enough about the project to begin with, since in the other thread, they decided to drop it entirely.

The escalation is wholly on KCDS part, where they attacked in a slanderous manner, without a hint of self-awareness that their dereliction of duties made it necessary for the TL to look for help elsewhere, all the while initially providing a cherry picked chat log.

So in the end, what did this actually do? All this did was sink a project, and possibly another due to avoidance of drama involved.
If this was actual poaching then the other group(and Neria) would not have attempted to work with KCDS to begin with, and would not have taken down the project from their site, it's gone and all this was just a matter of wasted effort. Particularly on the part of the TLer, and the other group since what was the limited provided support from KCDS to begin with?

Yes, they provided the initial idea and project. By that rights, then fine, they have 3 months to keep the project running, otherwise it is free to be picked up by others. Which again, from reading through all of these threads, they are not going to do.

When in the chat logs they were describing a month lag, that delay qualifies as a broken agreement as is.
All of them have made mistakes in this whole thing, but this escalation was completely unnecessary. It really is a shame.

 

HAHAHAHA

 

I think it's common courtesy to let KCDS know when you quit the group, since it would have prevented all this drama in this first place, no matter what Neria's reason for quiting the group is. So honestly, I didn't think bad about KDCS at all for bringing it up here because next time when a new translator want to quit, they would be aware that informing your ex-group before joining a new one is EXTREMELY important to do. So all the best to KCDS. A thumbs up from me here.

 

Hello Kobatochan. Is there any news about I am the monarch. Me and my colleagues really loves this series. I hope you didn't stop translate it. Thank you and sorry about the drama.

 

I didn't read the whole thread (or even half of it), but can it be considered being in a group, when you are basically getting no support from anybody at all?

We should all be aware that proofreading often only means reading a chapter for fun and edit small mistakes on the fly. And even that was only made in parts, right?

Are there even real contracts? Since KCDS "hired" Neira they should have paid for the translations and done the editing they promised in the contracts, right? And paid for the raws, taxes, etc..?

For me it looks like KCDS benefited from Neiras work without fulfilling their part of the deal... Or did I miss something?

 

From what I have seen KCDS insisted on paying Neria in the chat logs, and besides proofreading, raws were provided for Neria. An editor’s discord was also provided. I’m not sure what you mean by taxes, especially since this novel isn’t approved by the publisher to be translated, so I will leave that out.

 

I meant if money was actually sent over or only 'promised'.

Taxes -> for every type of income tax has to be paid in the country you are living. (especially when it's organized like a tl-group)

"Raws were provided" + "novel isn't approved by the publisher to be translated" = raws weren't paid and illegally provided from aggregator sites? I can't really see this type of "raws were provided" as KCDS fulfilling a contract with Neria?

Editor discord was provided -> were the editors actually part of the group and did they edit? If it was just a group of private readers who wanted the chapters a bit earlier, it wouldn't really count as a service from KCDS.

What's really important to know is if there were any real contracts, or if there were only ambiguous, legally not binding chat logs.

 

Hopping in for the first and last time to clear up this misconception. Neria provided their own raws.

 

He provided his own raws because the ones provided by KCDS was not user friendly, but KCDS did provide raws.

Edit: actually let me take this back.
KCDS says he has given raws.

But I can’t find exact hard evidence on it so take it as my eyes are blind and have no idea who is telling the truth here.

 

i see where you are going. First of all in terms of contract: I have no idea, nobody elaborated on it specifically, and logs don’t say jack.
According to KCDS in previous comments(if I’m wrong I apologised) he bought the raws off the original site and passed it over to Neria.
Editor’s discord: I asked Neria, and I won’t show any evidence of this because I promised not to, so it’s really up to you to believe. The editor’s discord was dead according to him. However, this is again based on his side of the story and there is no hard evidence.

Honestly you talking about contracts make me wish someone actually answered my previous question here on how do TL even handle this bs of a contract, because there is a majority of translations in NU that I am very sure are not approved by publishers and yet there are arrangements between Translators and Editors with monetary gain being given for their work. How the heck does it even work arghhh

 

Talking about raws is really fallacious imo because in my group, we first work with the free chapters available on the original website first and then buy the rest to read them. So yeah, there's not even a need to go further, there was free chapters the TL could work based on and once the free chapters were completed, TL could have bought the chapters with the payment (our payments includes the fee for the TL to buy himself the chapters + it's barely 10 cents per chapter on Munpia or any other website).
So blaming me for nothing looking for txt files snitched I don't know by whom and from where (which is also harder to get + not consistent unlike buying your daily chapter) is just plain ridiculuous. Well, I guess 100WS supports such methods while in KCDS, we prefer to pay the translators to buy the chapters (and it also supports the original author at the same in a certain way).
Btw, I agreed to provide the raws for paid chapters later if he really was unable to get them but it's possible to pay with paypal on the original source so "I can't get the raws" is not a good excuse.
100WS talks about being professional and blablabla all the time but they do a pretty shady thing concerning this raw matter they love to bring it to my face. That's such an evidence of professionalism.
I was clear: work with the free chapters first.

 

Legally, fan translation groups are basically pirates that steal from the author and publisher.
It's rarely the case that they have rights to translate.
Sites like KCDS & 100WS are always vulnerable to legal action if the publisher pursues it.
At the same time, only big websites like WuxiaWorld can afford to buy rights to translation.
Monetization (ad revenue, patreon, contracts, wage, etc...) is just asking for trouble.
Especially if you are operating sites like Wordpress, which abides to DMCA and copyright protection laws.

 

This is why I stayed away from the forum. Stupid drama everywhere.

 

Actually, I don't see anything about Neria quitting KCDS. In fact, they tried to work with KCDS along with the other group, even if KCDS did provide nominal(inadequate) support.
I think providing TLer with adequate support so they don't have to look for outside groups is equally important. Think about having a job, you look for another job first, before quitting the old job.

Basically this is a case of a disgruntled employer, whose employee found a second job to make ends meet. Tried to work on both, but the disgruntled employer was unhappy for not being given top-billing, and decided to burn both the employee and trash the other company.

Since KCDS provided the idea to translate the novel, one can argue that they have first rights on the novel. If they can't work it out with the TLer, then they have 3 months to keep going with this, with a new translator if ever.

Why would a TL'er want to work with KCDS when they can't keep up with their own end in an agreement, and then bust out drama as soon as their TL'er decides to find resources for themselves?

Look KCDS won:

1. They got the other group to remove the novel from their site.
2. The drama generated slowed down whatever momentum the other group had, or maybe even took them out entirely(remains to be seen).

All the while they:

1. Provided little assistance
2. Wanted to use the other group's art-work and edits
3. Still get to be the one listed in NU
4. Neria did not request payment or recognition (so any payment provided if any was even given was on them)
5. They didn't really lose anything here.(Other than gaining more reputation for drama)

If KCDS keeps claiming ownership of the novel from their "Gorgeous Library"(from their first post here), it keeps going back to finding a different translator to keep putting out chapters at a minimum every 3 months. Which they 1) did not start till Neria, 2) made no effort of doing, and 3) they have no intention in continuing this buried novel. If we're going by standards here, they actually have no ownership on the novel, legally or by NU guidelines since they don't even have one chapter out.

From what I see, since their talks/negotiations failed, all KCDS had the right to, was ask the new group and TL'er to remove the novel, as they have first rights on it(they provided the idea), all because they wanted recognition for the translation. That could have been done outside of this whole thing, but it seems like they really wanted to hurt the other group and TL'er. So from the looks of things, they got exactly what they wanted.

I don't have hard feelings against KCDS, and in many ways the site does great work. I can see where they feel the have been wronged, but just because I like a site or something does not mean I can't point out that they also have some culpability here. I hope they keep up their work, but please limit drama and hash it out, outside if possible.

 

Just one thing: KCDS has nothing to do with 100WS taking down SSS.
I have absolutely no idea why but I heard they just put it on hold for I don't know the reason (maybe something with dealing the license or whatever they said they were going to do but that's just my guess) + we have taked down SSS on KCDS as well to avoid further trouble and rumors around it (and also because it was just bad memories).
And I don't claim ownership of novels from "georgeous library", it just means all the good novels I know won't probably be translated for very long until I have strengthen the issue of terms&conditions and found someone. They are basically untranslated but awesome novels and which I have pride as I believe I have a very good taste in novel (just imo)