Combat in a web novel

tl;dr : simple poll, yay!

So with all the self isolation going on, I've started to re-read the Re:Monster manga. Back in the day, Re:Monster was one of the first light novels I read. I stopped long before I discovered NU though because back in the day the translators, Re:LIbrary, gave up translating it because the folks on the wiki page actually translated way past them. This was back in the days when this kind of a thing was a problem and like other cases, the reliable translators dropped it and the hobby translators lost interest so the whole thing was dropped. Anyway, I make a point to write reviews on NU when I enjoy a story or when the mood strikes me but I never wrote a review for this one because I never read it through NU. So I decided to do so today. As with most stories there were positive and negative reviews. And I was not surprised to find negative reviews that referenced a particularly unpleasant part of the story. What did surprise me though was seeing negative reviews that referenced the story's transition from combat to kingdom building.
I've always been a fan of combat stories and kingdom building stories. My tastes have changed as I've grown older and I now prefer kingdom building with my combat. I feel that Re:Monster has an excellent transition into this, as the MC quickly becomes OP and starts focusing on how to use his OPness to build up a group of followers. But other reviewers seem annoyed that the focus on combat diminished. I feel like there was a time when I would have agreed with them and only cared about the MC and his core allies. I used to imagine my own stories that focused on the MC and eschewed any sort of development to the surroundings. But these days I have started becoming more interested in developing the surroundings after the MC's personal strength has been developed. As a result, I feel like stories with an MC that grows faster than anybody else need to recognize when to give up combat as the focus. Bleach stands out to me as the biggest offender in this category but I'm sure everybody who reads combat light novels can think of at least one story where the MC grew at a stupidly fast rate and became able to compete with the toughest people around, only for the author to magically come up with more people who were somehow stronger but unknown, over and over again.
So I'm making a poll to determine how the rest of the community feels about this. Do you just want exciting combat in your novels? The MC growing stronger and stronger, with exciting battles to test him/her in various aspects? Do you just want a combat fix with an interesting story to support it?
Or do you want to see the MC stand among the top fighters of the world, and then actually start building their own force? Not necessarily spending time on the details of how soldiers are trained and bases built but at least knowing that they are in place for the MC to call upon.
To be clear, I'm not asking if you like kingdom building novels in general. There are plenty of kingdom building novels that start and end with kingdom building. This is specifically to determine if you want authors to keep throwing challenges at the MC personally or if you want the MC to develop subordinates and a base.

 

Uhm, you can still have both of kingdom building and combat, it's mostly a matter of where you choose to focus your story. You can still have the MC grow while at same time expanding the kingdom. I haven't gotten far into re:monster cause of the other issues with it so I can't tell how it handles the transition. But for example The Amber sword starts out with MC combat, and goes into kingdom building while still retaining the combat aspect. Simply the MC is doing tasks and continuing to grow stronger, make allies and etc, while his subordinates defend the territory.

 

Not specifically the combat but I like reading the way the MC tackle their problems, be it combat or kingdom building.

 

If you like that then you'll probably love Solo Leveling.

 

Definitely. I feel that a pretty important obstacle for authors with fantasy worlds is keeping the problem-solving interesting. If you have a MC that can use magic, it seems pretty silly when they fail to see how their own magic or whatnot can solve a particular problem. It is definitely cooler if the author can out-think the reader with the problem solving but applying the unique aspects of the setting is the bare minimum. That said, I feel the big difference between kingdom-building and combat focused stories is the problem solving options. Both stories invariably have at least one enemy with a whole swarm of subordinates to cause trouble for MC. I personally feel that it's kind of ridiculous when MC and villain are equally powerful and equally respected by the world at large but the villain has an entire army of helpers and the MC is still alone.

 

Really? The title itself seems to imply that there would be no addition of subordinates.

 

I think it's really a matter of setting expectations well. The story blurb or title must have some indication that the story will not just be about action/battles, but also about kingdom-building. Then people won't be so pissed-off when the genre supposedly changes. For example, "I am the Monarch" starts off very combat-heavy, but it's clear from the very beginning and title that the goal isn't just battles, but to become a king. Which naturally implies Kingdom-Building. Same for Tales of the Reincarnated Lord. If Re:Monster had been called Re:Monster Kingdom or something, people would have gone in with the right expectations.

 

Another example of combat-focused would be American comics. The various super heroes spend their time fighting enemies and team up to fight huge enemies but they never actually recruit subordinates (ignore the sidekicks). Imagine what would happen if Iron Man had an entire platoon of hand-picked subordinates with copies of his suit. Or if Batman used his resources to enhance Gotham PD. Or if somebody in either comic universe formed a government-sponsored team with alien tech and no stupid corruption nonsense. These days I find myself wishing that we could get a little more development from the government in these comics. No more Suicide Squad, no more shadow cabals, maybe keep the Thunderbolts, but just give us an honest well put-together team to deal with major threats that has proper government funding.

 

I can agree with that. But honestly, the MC starts taking interest in his surroundings even when he is a goblin. And when he becomes a hob, his former peers naturally start to follow him. That's what a lot of these stories seem to lack. A realistic number of flunkies. It's all rivals and jealous enemies. Nobody ever says "hey, I just watched this guy go from zero to hero in no time flat. Maybe I can learn something by becoming his minion." instead they just do their own thing or suck up to the spoiled rich guy. Looking at you Xianxia and Xianhua.

 

Re:Monster also has the MC continue to grow. But after a certain point he isn't as challenged by his surroundings. That's where I'm drawing the line. Any story that focuses on how an MC is growing strong faster than other people eventually reaches a point where the MC can keep up with people who were previously described as the pinnacle. I feel that an author can reveal a new pinnacle maybe once, but honestly whether there is a secret pinnacle or not the MC should start getting minions once they hit the first pinnacle. All stories have stepping stones with minions, so how is it that stories with a combat focus have nobody following the MC? (love interests don't count) There is usually an encounter with a group of bandits who are ruled by a boss who thinks he's hot shit. But the MC wastes all of them easily on his way to fight somebody important. And yet nobody ever even ASKS to follow the MC it makes no sense. Again, there was a time where I only cared about the MC of stories and only came up with stories that focused on the MC jumping from adventure to adventure. But these days I feel like the logical choice is a transition to kingdom building. Not a continued laser focus on the MC like most light novels and web novels do.
It's sometimes easy to miss because some of these stories have a whole team that works with the MC but most of the time the MC reaches a level that various lords are at and yet has no subordinates.

 

Uhm, the only people following the MC being harem members is pretty much wish fulfillment. Hence why you get a bunch of girls drop everything in life and just follow the MC. While male characters are just usually bros who would thank you for looking out for them and show up once a blue moon.

As for the MC being the pinnacle and all, it depends. If the MC uses his brain and some circumstances align, the MC can beat pinnacle existences earlier on but not fairly, as time progresses, you can move on to actually being able to handle them head on. Then there is pinnacle existences in the country vs continent vs world. So it isn't like there isn't a path to go through.

Overall though, I think the most important if you want to transition to kingdom building, it is important to make sure people care about the side characters. Again, I haven't went far into re:monster, but as far as I did, the side characters really didn't put much of an impression. Maybe that is the issue?

 

Arise!

 

Is that a story that I should read? Or a call to read the previously mentioned story? Or are you having difficulties with your penis and require outside input to get an erection? Because if its the the third one then I suggest therapeutic help but even so, Arise!

 

Not sure if we are talking at cross purposes here or just talking about different things but here are my thoughts.
Kingdom building and combat are NOT mutually exclusive. "RE:monster" and "Tales of the Reincarnated Lord" are both excellent examples of harmony. My question is whether people prefer the coexistence or one above the other. As for "Re:Monster" having side characters, there is the MC, then his immediate friends, then a crew of extras who are off doing side quests for MC. The extras don't really contribute to the story but I personally like to know that the MC has subordinates who are actively improving his wealth and overall strength. MC also trains them from time to time but it's not really a huge plus. We shall both continue to ignore any harem members. The main issue is the difference between this story and a story like "Warlock of the Magus World" for example. Or again, Bleach. In either of those stories, the MC faces any particular issue alone. There may be a few friends to help but never subordinates to solve shit in the background. And that is my point. I prefer stories where the MC settles down and sets up an organization. But there was a time where I preferred stories where the MC just kept moving and relying on himself.

 

I generally don't like combat-focused stuff, so I wouldn't mind it focusing more on developing a society and stuff...

That said, I usually hate when the novel changes from its original premise to another. If I signed up to read a fluffy slice of life, I don't wanna read about a huge war with the kingdom at stake.

In a similar vein, if I signed up to a standard shounen, I wouldn't want the focus to be completely changed to building a kingdom and what not~