Spoiler Discussion in Spoiler Threads

Discussion in 'Spoilers' started by Westeller, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. Zenonide

    Zenonide Active Member

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    This is definitely my issue with the Spoiler threads. Im fine with the discussions but sometimes it really gets too much and it gets repetitive.
     
  2. Kumoshiro

    Kumoshiro Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your reply, it is very welcome.

    I'm not a very active in threads maybe because I'm not very fluent in english, but mainly because I'm mostly interested to know what will happen in future chapters, not to debate, and in that way I'm not concerned in the management of this forum.

    However, it is very disappointing to unfollow spoiler threads because it got transformed from spoilers to debates.

    There are people who sincerely shares spoilers, and these people dedicates their time to search, translate, write and share content without requesting any rewards. Don't you think this people may be discouraged to keep sharing content in a thread distorted from spoilers to debates?

    I don't have the energy to start a movement of any type and neither have that intention. But that is a repetitive complaint that can be read through the threads in spoilers forum and, if you put some attention, it is just a minnor group who is used to deviate these topics encouraged under the flag of "the moderator accepts discussion".

    I don't know what is the intention of the boss, but I would like to ask him to reconsider this topic and encourage the people to create a discussion threat to vent all their opinions and leave spoilers to spoilers. This would help internet users to have a site focused to the content they need and making them keep following this site, and the people who wants to debate has nothing to lose, instead they would gain a legitime way to share their opinions.
     
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  3. ATrueStory

    ATrueStory Villainesses, Historical Shit, Noble Circuses

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    Fair enough. I understand that this is a private forum and basically, your space your rules. Just to play the devil’s advocate, can you clarify the results and evidence bit? Coz rules also say no harassment but the other side might perceive not so much. It’s our personal lens and moral yardstick to say in other subforum post 9if it ever came to be) that this person is X, Y, Z. It’s also the right and perception of the other poster to say that such thing or post is harassment to them.
    Also, if there is such a campaign, does this mean that the target of the campaign is allowed to participate in that campaign thread?

    The problem is where is elsewhere? I have seen some discussions rightfully transferred to the Novels Discussion side. However, the poster who shit stirred in the first can come back to the spoiler threads and do it all over again. Or you have another shit-stirrer. Yeah, we can report and mods can take care of it. Or things just doesn't reach to that level.

    I did it once. Not regretting it. I can sense that the majority of the posters won’t like the spoiler that I was supposed to share because of their rightfully held opinions. I just chalked it up as I am not gonna be that person who spoiler who give information and gets the ‘shoot the messenger’ treatment, It does happen and sometimes I take a break from this site coz some comments are getting vile for my taste. Took another person to be a spoiler what people want and guess what happened. People direct their ‘questions’ at the person who gave spoilers and even with better temperament and patience, she still gets some sort of ‘why did this thing happen’ posts direct at them who literally can't do anything and shouldn’t be in a position to explain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  4. VaneCustodio99

    VaneCustodio99 Member

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    Well, that is pretty selfish of you. As the name says, this is a "spoiler thread", no a "discussion thread". Why can't you all respect that?
     
  5. Kumoshiro

    Kumoshiro Well-Known Member

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    I think it is not too hard to solve the problem and improve the atmosphere of the community.

    Just need to analize why people likes to use the spoiler forums to initiate debates. If you compare the index page of the Novel Discussion forum and Spoilers forum, it can be noticed that the threads in Spoilers forums has a kind of feeling to be the "main thread" for the respective novel/manga, while the threads on Novel Discussion has a feeling of a kind of less important topic, making more atractive to use the spoiler thread for discussion than the discussion thread itself.

    Well, admins can improve this integrating novelupdates main site with the forum, adding in every novel entry a link to Discussion Thread (in a big/flashy way) and a link to Spoiler Thread (in a more discreet way) and both links linking to the respective thread in the forum. Additionaly, it can be automatically created a Discussion/Spoiler thread with every novel entry.

    In that way, the admins can create the perfect space to discuss opinions and the perfect space to get spoilers. The people would have a kind of "official/main" thread where they can focus their attention to share opinions without interrupt a more specialized thread dedicated to spoilers.

    It would make it even easier to find the discussion thread or the spoiler thread without searching for it using google giving a direct access to it, starting a discussion/spoiler thread where everyone could contribute... Like a kind of beacon for novels. Wouldn't that be awesome?
     
  6. Westeller

    Westeller [Maid] [Cat boy] [Girly] [Watchu Looking at?] Staff Member

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    At risk of repeating myself for the hundredth time, it is almost impossible to separate spoilers from the discussion of those spoilers. It would also be incredibly arbitrary and unnecessary. We have no intention of doing so. People are absolutely free to discuss, and argue about, the spoilers being posted in these threads. We've provided you with an account you can use to organize spoilers for easier reading, and you can choose to hide the posts of any particular person or group of people you don't like. You have, frankly, all the tools you need to enjoy the spoiler threads the way you want to, and there is absolutely no need for us to enforce arbitrary limits how much discussion can take place in these threads, or attempt to divide them.

    ...

    Novel Updates already has links to discussion threads for novels, but, for obvious reasons, you cannot discuss spoilers in these threads. Spoiler discussion goes here. We've thrown around the idea of adding links to spoiler threads, as well, but so far nothing has come of that. Maybe in the future.
     
  7. Parth37955

    Parth37955 NU #3, [Dead Inside], Mid-Boss, Dark Dealer Staff Member

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    Looks like I missed the fun...I have my hands full trying to delete regular spam cause no one can read the rules apparently. I don't have the capacity to delete everything that isn't a spoiler and nothing else.

    Also since some people don't really get the definition of harassment

    Harassment: is offensive, belittling, threatening, or otherwise unwelcome behavior directed at someone based on protected characteristics, including: Age. Race. Color.

    Having a different opinion is not harassment.
     
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  8. Kumoshiro

    Kumoshiro Well-Known Member

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    Now I know how Lisa and MENSA's group felt after complaining to Chief Wiggum for their gazebo being un-rightfully used by Lenny and Carl's group.

    Principal Skinner: Chief Wiggum, their is a group of people using the spoiler thread to debate how the characters are wrong and how they should be.
    Chief Wiggum: People CAN use the spoiler thread for other things than share spoilers. Yo, give me a duff!
     
  9. kawaii12345

    kawaii12345 Well-Known Member

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    WOW

    That was amazing. The irony is so profound it blows my mind, what's more you can't even comprehend it. You have dehumanization of your opponents and elevating yourself to having a mandate from heaven all in two paragraphs. What's more you even managed to imply that anyone that disagrees with you doesn't know what's good for them.

    BRAVO, BRAVO

     
  10. Luukia

    Luukia Well-Known Member

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    The problem with most "discussion" in spoiler thread is.. Rather than "discussing" people are blatantly fighting about morality and whatsnot. I understand if they are just discussing about the spoiler, I have no qualms about it but I don't need the argument. I don't need the negativity. It's taxing, you know. You go on a forum for a spoiler, expecting a civil discussion but you ended up in "this is just fantasy" vs "ML IS ABUSIVE AND YOU GUYS ARE TOO FOR SUPPORTING HIM. AND THE AUTHOR FOR WRITING THIS POS".
     
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  11. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    Oooo i love strawmannig let me try.

    Most threads are "gee the male lead is kinda shitty" vs "OMG HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT ABOUT MY POOR ML HE HAD A SAD CHILDHOOD FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR MOM, REPORTED TO THE MODS, POLICE AND PRESIDENT STOP HARRASING ME AHHHHHH"

    Listen if the author shoves shit like rape is okay if hes hot and slavey is kinda cool down our throats then we have a right to discuss it.

    As stan lee once said

    1664060013948443605603235959838189054498357njpg.jpeg-2.jpg


    Almost any type if story will bring up morality discussions. You simply cant escape it. Its human nature. Stuff like boss baby gets criticized for showing pro capitalist messages to young children

    Idk I'm glad we live In times where we arent braindead and can dissect stories and view them through different lenses

    If I'm called a libtard or SJW for doing that then so be it. I guess I am
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
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  12. Kumoshiro

    Kumoshiro Well-Known Member

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    Yes, as you just said, we can dissect stories to gain a better understanding of them. It is not a bad thing the discussion itself (even giving theories can help to get a better understanding of the story). It became an issue when it deviates in a private discussion where one part enters in confrontation with another one about the character of a certain character.

    Let me put an example of comments that makes the starting point for the deviation of a discussion:
    • "ML's attitude toward MC after marriage is unforgivable"
    • "MC pushing for marriage is not good"
    • "MC just needs psychological treatment"
    • "MC verbally calling back the ex-fiancee that what is happening is not OK is not wrong"
    These are comments that gives subjective judgment on the character of one of the characters of the novel. These gives a private interpretation of the character itself and are the starting point of a war over if MC/ML is right or wrong.

    How can these comments serve to enrich the discussion? These are comments that doesn't contribute to the dissection of the story, but helps to deviate it into a different kind of discussion.

    Btw, those comments came from the same post, and I think that post was the one who started the debate over the morality of the character of the characters that later deviates over if it should be allowed to have debates in spoiler threads.

    Is it really something selfish to complaint about comments that incites the debate over how right or wrong is a character and request to give return the focus to discuss the deeds/facts of a character or a plot?
     
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  13. Luukia

    Luukia Well-Known Member

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    Again.. Discussing in civil manner is okay but we all know most of the morality discussion ends up in fanwar... It just need one person to ignite it and voila! Over pages and pages of fanwar... That's why people are complaining..
     
  14. polengchii

    polengchii Well-Known Member

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    Wtf hell!!! Is this a SPOILER thread or a thread for your rants? Can you pls stop dissing every character in a SPOILER thread. Can you all bitches create a forum where you can diss all you want and discuss all you want?! Ugh have some consideration to those people who came here to get some spoiler not some fcking rants about the ML and the father!
     
  15. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    Oh just come out and call everyone bitches eh. Also learn to read the pinned posts. Discussions are allowed

    But your insults totally contributed to this thread. Well done
     
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  16. kawaii12345

    kawaii12345 Well-Known Member

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    The funny thing about this is I can completely appreciate the position of people who want spoiler threads that are the perfect spoiler thread as described below

    One post that introduces the novel and provides relevant information
    Another post that summarizes the novel, spoils the plot details and gives details about the characters endings
    All the posts that come after are thank yous
    Trouble is that's not how it works and if you want it like that better be prepared to fork over cash for the privilege.

    People contribute spoilers in their own way for their own reasons, what's more those spoilers range from lucidity to as indecipherable as a federal reserve chairman's address to congress.

    When you can have a spoiler where the MC says she"cheated her sister out of her inheritance and overworks her" and it's still not clear how the relationship will go or how that will impact the plot, you better believe there will be discussion about that and what's more THERE NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT
     
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  17. Luukia

    Luukia Well-Known Member

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    I think the mod moved their post here so OP didn't mean to post in this thread in the first place.
     
  18. Westeller

    Westeller [Maid] [Cat boy] [Girly] [Watchu Looking at?] Staff Member

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    IIRC those two were moved together from another thread.

    A fair number of the posts in this thread are parts of arguments moved out of spoiler threads. Not every argument can be moved this way, since most of the time people are arguing about spoilers, even if they're also telling each other to shut up and stop arguing about it. But the ones that are just totally irrelevant get moved here sometimes.
     
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  19. illysillymilly

    illysillymilly Well-Known Member

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    oh my fookin god i swear i feel like i want to rip all my haiir out because of this thread. seriously seeiing the name helena makes me wonder if that is what an aneurysm feels like. thiis iis so painful :blob_teary: :blobangery:

    can we have proper spoilers can we have a single page of comments that are only spoiiler and dont mention helena at all???????? does thisi whole fookin plot revolve around helena???????? no. istg ive never felt more infuriated. and this isnt too say ppl's opinions aren't valid, but rather, please fook off into your own thread to hash it out. jfc
     
  20. theilikepie

    theilikepie Well-Known Member

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    Helena lives in everyones minds rent free. Truly the superior character. Such power that even 18 pages later people are still talking about her lol

    You cant deny the impact shes made. In trying to bash helena the haters only made her stronger
     
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